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United States of America HeadKilla
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05 Aug 2019, 20:33

Quick backstory on myself. I have never been or will ever be a high level gamer. I started Playing the AOE series roughly 20 yrs ago with many breaks, including a 12 year break on gaming to start my own business. I do play to get better, but I recognize my limitations will never permit me to reach the next level of play. That said, I do have an appreciation for almost anything being done at the highest level. Be it, sport, dance, art or gaming, watching the best compete at their best is always enjoyable.
Coincidentally, I had been thinking about playing some AOE a couple months ago after selling my business and learned of the NWC LAN event happening in a couple weeks from then. I was so happy to see that this game still has a competitive player base and a very strong online social group. I was also very happy to see that TAD expansion had some out since I last played. I watched the LAN, discovered twitchTV and streams of the current TAD superstars. I could not get enough of this world I had previously be unaware of. Yes, I had been living under a rock but to be fair, cell phones were just becoming a mainstream thing and LAN was pretty much the only way to really get a good gaming session in, when I last was active. That said, I do have an appreciation for almost anything being done at the highest level. Be it, sport, dance, art or gaming, watching the best compete at their best is always enjoyable.

So, I am now interested in trying to setup/sponsor a tournament for personal enjoyment. My vision includes an organization such as the EscapeTV team being the primary force running the event and stream. I would be willing to put up the Guaranteed prize support out of pocket and provide any other assistance I can to help get things going or running smoothly.

Here are some of the idea's I have and would like some feedback and/or further suggestions and recommendations. My background is in running TCG Tournaments so I imagine there are intricacies for this game's tournaments that I am not aware of. Such as BO3 or BO5 rounds? Predetermined maps or map votes/bans? Seeded rounds or Swiss rounds? Single day marathon or week long early rounds and single day finals? These are the things that I would love to have a team that already knows what they are doing in place and have proven success, like the EscapeTV crew. I really want as many people as possible to watch this stream. The only thing I can really bring to the table is the prize support, some energy and a few fun ideas for us noobs.

1. Divisions

I was thinking that having multiple divisions would achieve a few desirable outcomes. First, with multiple divisions and prizes pools for each division, more people can win something. Second, this will possibly prevent so many MU's where player level is not comparable. Think about the 4:30 game we saw this past weekend and then the 4:40 game a few minutes later. Third, this will give an opportunity to the lower level players to compete in an event for prizes against players of similar skill level. I know there is debate about low level players in tournaments but maybe a couple of newer players enter the event and decide they want to dedicate themselves to getting better and eventually playing in the Pro division. Today's Scrubs are Tomorrow's Star's =D

I figured the divisions could be loosely broken down as such:
- Pro PR29+
- Advanced PR20-28
- Intermediate PR19 and below
- Player rank determines lowest eligible division. So a PR19 or below could enter into any div they want, but a PR29+ can only enter the Pro division. This would allow any player to compete in the Pro division, but not allow higher ranked players to potentially dominate the lower divisions.

2. Entry fee
- $5 per player
- I feel like if the players put some skin in the game, they will be more inclined to show up for their matches and bring their best game.
- all money collected goes towards additional prize support
- We will have a guaranteed prize payout and then we can calculate the increased payouts once registration is complete
- 68% of entries will go towards the pro division prize pool, 25% towards the advanced division prize pool and 7% towards the intermediate prize pool
- all registrants must register on the ESO-Community forum and download the ESOC patch
- lets get some fresh faces, like mine, in this great community.
- many mu's will be played on esoc maps for balance and posterity. However, the intermediate division early rounds will be RE maps assuming most of this player base has not had sufficient time to download and practice with the patch and to simply provide a more familiar experience while still exposing them to ESOC.

3. Prizes
- Cash payout to top players from each division.
- Top 8 Pro division
- 1st - $400
- 2nd - $250
- 3rd/4th - $150
- 5th-8th - $100
- Top 4 Advanced division
- 1st - $200
- 2nd - $100
- 3rd/4th - $50
- Top 2 Intermediate division
- 1st - $75
- 2nd - $50

4. Game Format
- 1 vs 1
- This is a 1 vs 1 event.
- Double Elimination
- Random pairings for round 1 and Swiss rounds there after
- I was thinking that we have a map predetermined for the first few rounds for each division until the top 8 when we can do map votes and locks for the Best of Series. This will speed up the early rounds and I think is especially important for the lower divisions who's player base may not have the skills for map selection and on the fly matchup changes. This will also allow for these same players to know what map's they are guaranteed to play on so they can best prepare for those maps and potential mu's well in advance.
- For example, the intermediate division; Round 1 will be played on Great Plains game 1 then Borneo game 2 and finally Kamchatka game 3. Round 2 for be New England, Yukon and Deccan

- 2 vs 2
- I would like to offer a free 2 vs 2 side event available only to players who registered for the Main Event.
- All participants must have registered for the Main Event to also participate in the 2 vs 2 however participation is not required.
- $100 to the winning team and $50 to the 2nd place team
- There are no divisions or restrictions on partnerships beyond partners must remain the same throughout the event.
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France [Armag] diarouga
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05 Aug 2019, 22:30

Hey,

1) I think that making divisions is a good idea, as it would save time for the top players and make the tournaments more enjoyable for the other players. However, you have to keep in mind that some people like to play with the top players (I liked that when I was a beginner), that's a small drawback.

2) I'm against the entry fee. Many people wouldn't sign up as a result, and playing a tournament shouldn't be a gamble. I don't think that Escape and ESOC have money issues right now, so there's no need for that.

3) We've had "second-chance tournaments" and below pr30 tournaments in the past, and although it was successful, putting a prize pool for this is probably not a good idea. First, the players who are slightly higher than pr30 will lose on purpose in rated games because they have no chance to win the "pro tournament", and that pr30- tourney will end up being a pr35- tournament. Likewise, the pr19 and below division will get smurfed by pr25-30 players.
Finally, even if you wanted to put a prize pool for the lower divisions, this is way too much. Do you really think that getting third in a pr30- tournament should be more rewarded than getting 3rd/4th in a pro tournament?

4) Why would you need to play the 1v1 tournament in order to participate in the 2v2 tournament? I guess most people would play in both, but this is unnecessary.
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Canada dansil92
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05 Aug 2019, 22:34

If you are interested in lower level tournaments, SamuraiRevolution is the guy you'd wanna talk to. There's a king of the hill tournament currently underway actually and it is much more noob friendly?
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United States of America HeadKilla
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05 Aug 2019, 23:21

[Armag] diarouga wrote:Hey,

1) I think that making divisions is a good idea, as it would save time for the top players and make the tournaments more enjoyable for the other players. However, you have to keep in mind that some people like to play with the top players (I liked that when I was a beginner), that's a small drawback.


I completely agree. This is why the lower divisions have the option of playing up a division or two if they want. It is not only beginners that want to play with the big boys and/or get their matched streamed, FYI. There are more mid/low level players chomping at the bit that perhaps you are aware.

[Armag] diarouga wrote:2) I'm against the entry fee. Many people wouldn't sign up as a result, and playing a tournament shouldn't be a gamble. I don't think that Escape and ESOC have money issues right now, so there's no need for that.


I was not sure about entry fee's. In my field, they are commonplace. Yes, it is a barrier for many people. However it is only $5 for several ours of organized competitive play. Perhaps we could include a twitch sub to Escape or ESOC as part of the registration package. This is not something I am firm on, but it does increase the prize payout and prevent some potential problems with people not showing up to matches or just giving away their match. I am not familiar with the Escape or ESOC financial status. I did not imagine anyone else contributing to the prize support, but of course that would be amazing.

[Armag] diarouga wrote:3) We've had "second-chance tournaments" and below pr30 tournaments in the past, and although it was successful, putting a prize pool for this is probably not a good idea. First, the players who are slightly higher than pr30 will lose on purpose in rated games because they have no chance to win the "pro tournament", and that pr30- tourney will end up being a pr35- tournament. Likewise, the pr19 and below division will get smurfed by pr25-30 players.


A problem indeed. Could we take the highest PR of a player achieved in the month leading up to the event? So if we see a PR35 drop down to PR29 a week before the event, they are grandfathered into the PRO division.

Could we change the division PR alignments to better fit actual player skill? I just used the benchmarks I did because they lined up with the in game player titles.

Unless there is a practical solution, we may just need to accept that this will happen. Is publicly shaming tournament smurfs a thing?

[Armag] diarouga wrote:Finally, even if you wanted to put a prize pool for the lower divisions, this is way too much. Do you really think that getting third in a pr30- tournament should be more rewarded than getting 3rd/4th in a pro tournament?


I do not. That is why 3rd in the Advanced div would pay you $50 but in the Pro it would pay you $150. I do feel that prize support is essential for each division, so long as it is clear that winning the top division, or even making top 8 should be more rewarding then playing down a division and taking 1st. So, I could increase the payout of the bottom top in each division to above the 1st place payout in lower division. Or I could decrease the prize support for the Advanced and Intermediate divisions so that current Pro division would be aligned better. I want the prizes to be as significant as I feel comfortable giving away. I do not want to diminish winning any tournament, even at the Int div level, by removing prize support.

[Armag] diarouga wrote:4) Why would you need to play the 1v1 tournament in order to participate in the 2v2 tournament? I guess most people would play in both, but this is unnecessary.


You would not need to play in the 1v1 but you would need to register for the event (pay $5) even if you just wanted the 2v2 experience.
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Argentina Riotcoke
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05 Aug 2019, 23:30

Honestly if you're a lower level player like myself, just sign up for the weekend tours, you'll likely get placed vs lower level players in your first game and then get a nice game against a high level player in the 2nd game.
Islas Malvinas son Britanicas
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United States of America HeadKilla
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05 Aug 2019, 23:36

dansil92 wrote:If you are interested in lower level tournaments, SamuraiRevolution is the guy you'd wanna talk to. There's a king of the hill tournament currently underway actually and it is much more noob friendly?


I am not particularly interested in low level tournaments. I am interested in providing an organized and competitive place for lower level players to test their might and take home some glory. However, only in the shadows of high level play. Basically, giving lower level players the same feel or treatment as the top players get, albeit for a very short time and perhaps not as much camera time. This way they (I say they like I am not one of "them") will better get a sense if competitive play is for them, where they stand up against other players of similar skill level and maybe even learn something about their gameplay if not about how to conduct themselves in this setting. Perhaps not competing directly against diarouga would be disappointing to some players, but for many, being able to say they were part of a tournament along with a couple big names is worth the price of admission.

SamuraiRevolution has provided me with much enjoyment over the past few months. At first I found his videos to be very informative and I was learning from watching them and listening to what advice he may have offered. But mostly his personality is infectious and I usually come away from a video feeling good. After a couple months of working to improve, I started to find his videos less useful for improving my skills, but still enjoyable. I believe it was the same guy but, I recently saw a video he had with GivesUAnxiety in which he was being given a lesson on how to do a French BO. That is my favorite video for how much value I received out of it. I really like the idea of coaching as they demonstrated. I have even thought about trying to solicit a top player to spend a couple hours with me and my friends just watching us and giving useful advice. Still think that may help my game so if you know anyone offering this service, please pass their info along.
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France [Armag] diarouga
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05 Aug 2019, 23:39

2) ESOC tournaments are hosted thanks to donations, and there are enough donations to avoid entry fee's. People not showing up are disqualified so that is not really an issue (it just wastes people's time).

3) That wouldn't be enough. Let's say I stop for 1 year and come back for your tournament, then I would be pr25, right ? It doesn't work. I guess taking the highest rank of all time would be better, but still there are many issues because PR used to be inflated. A guy who was pr35 in 2008 is probably pr26 or something today. Also the tournament admins would have to check people's elo one by one, that's just too much work. Finally you could sign up with another account, and you can't do much about captain guys smurfing as you don't know them.
We've had some smurfing issues in the past. At high level, we can check people's IP (because we know their IP), and it's obvious because of the playstyle, but at captain level, noone would get caught so expect it to be a smurf tournament. And we can't just "accept that this will happen" when there's money on the line.

3 bis) Third in pro is 150 $ while first in advanced is 200$, and surely the guy who reaches the 3rd place in pro is much much better than the guy who is first in advanced. In fact, he probably wouldn't ever drop a game to him, how is that fair?
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05 Aug 2019, 23:42

Riotcoke wrote:Honestly if you're a lower level player like myself, just sign up for the weekend tours, you'll likely get placed vs lower level players in your first game and then get a nice game against a high level player in the 2nd game.


I do not want to discourage participation in any active series or event. I have very little to zero interest in participating in any tournament myself. I do however enjoy watching the larger events on my tv with a couple friends while we LAN.

Imagine if you were paired against a player of similar skill in rnd 1 and then again in rnd2 and also in every other round and then you won a prize for beating players of similar skill. When you play in the weekend tours, do you have any chance of winning anything? From what you mentioned previously, it sounds like you enter just for that 1st round game and then its lights out GG WP. Is there a losers bracket? If so, do you stand a chance to win that if one or two top level players get dropped for whatever reason and are now in the losers bracket? I am not trying to be critical of the event or your choice to participate, but I want to emphasis the difference between a regularly run weekend event and a one-off event like I envision.
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United States of America HeadKilla
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05 Aug 2019, 23:58

[Armag] diarouga wrote:2) ESOC tournaments are hosted thanks to donations, and there are enough donations to avoid entry fee's. People not showing up are disqualified so that is not really an issue (it just wastes people's time).


I am not ESOC so I cannot speak for their donations or potential contribution to this event. But if people not showing up is not really a problem and the bonus of increased prize support at the cost of the players is not justified, there would be no reason to have an entry fee.

[Armag] diarouga wrote:3) That wouldn't be enough. Let's say I stop for 1 year and come back for your tournament, then I would be pr25, right ? It doesn't work. I guess taking the highest rank of all time would be better, but still there are many issues because PR used to be inflated. A guy who was pr35 in 2008 is probably pr26 or something today. Also the tournament admins would have to check people's elo one by one, that's just too much work. Finally you could sign up with another account, and you can't do much about captain guys smurfing as you don't know them.
We've had some smurfing issues in the past. At high level, we can check people's IP (because we know their IP), and it's obvious because of the playstyle, but at captain level, noone would get caught so expect it to be a smurf tournament. And we can't just "accept that this will happen" when there's money on the line.


The PR nightmare's. Well I am open to other suggestions for sure. I don't want to believe that the only two options are, no prize support for the lower level divisions or we reluctantly concede that smurfing will happen. Given only these two options, I would still rather give prizes away to all divisions even if the players that won are smurfs. Is there another way to seed players or establish divisions?

[Armag] diarouga wrote:3 bis) Third in pro is 150 $ while first in advanced is 200$, and surely the guy who reaches the 3rd place in pro is much much better than the guy who is first in advanced. In fact, he probably wouldn't ever drop a game to him, how is that fair?


I wont argue that. And when you brought this to my attention I suggested we either up the Pro division prize pool or decrease the lower divisions pool so that if you place top 8 in your division, you win more than 1st in any division below. Does that make sense? Perhaps something like this:
3. Prizes
- Cash payout to top players from each division.
- Top 8 Pro division
- 1st - $400
- 2nd - $300
- 3rd/4th - $150
- 5th-8th - $125
- Top 4 Advanced division
- 1st - $100
- 2nd - $75
- 3rd/4th - $40
- Top 2 Intermediate division
- 1st - $30
- 2nd - $20
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United States of America lesllamas
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Posts: 617

05 Aug 2019, 23:59

Given AoE3's history of having multiple extremely shady tournament players who don't respect rules (this isn't to say that this is a majority of the playerbase--just that there's always been 1 or 2 people at any given time doing SOMETHING that's controversial or just straight up cheating), I would be extremely wary of having ANY prize pool for anything but the highest bracket. I can almost guarantee that one player or another will abuse the rules you establish in some way that they end up fraudulently winning the mid / lower bracket. Don't even give people the opportunity.
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France [Armag] diarouga
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06 Aug 2019, 00:04

HeadKilla wrote:
[Armag] diarouga wrote:2) ESOC tournaments are hosted thanks to donations, and there are enough donations to avoid entry fee's. People not showing up are disqualified so that is not really an issue (it just wastes people's time).


I am not ESOC so I cannot speak for their donations or potential contribution to this event. But if people not showing up is not really a problem and the bonus of increased prize support at the cost of the players is not justified, there would be no reason to have an entry fee.

[Armag] diarouga wrote:3) That wouldn't be enough. Let's say I stop for 1 year and come back for your tournament, then I would be pr25, right ? It doesn't work. I guess taking the highest rank of all time would be better, but still there are many issues because PR used to be inflated. A guy who was pr35 in 2008 is probably pr26 or something today. Also the tournament admins would have to check people's elo one by one, that's just too much work. Finally you could sign up with another account, and you can't do much about captain guys smurfing as you don't know them.
We've had some smurfing issues in the past. At high level, we can check people's IP (because we know their IP), and it's obvious because of the playstyle, but at captain level, noone would get caught so expect it to be a smurf tournament. And we can't just "accept that this will happen" when there's money on the line.


The PR nightmare's. Well I am open to other suggestions for sure. I don't want to believe that the only two options are, no prize support for the lower level divisions or we reluctantly concede that smurfing will happen. Given only these two options, I would still rather give prizes away to all divisions even if the players that won are smurfs. Is there another way to seed players or establish divisions?

[Armag] diarouga wrote:3 bis) Third in pro is 150 $ while first in advanced is 200$, and surely the guy who reaches the 3rd place in pro is much much better than the guy who is first in advanced. In fact, he probably wouldn't ever drop a game to him, how is that fair?


I wont argue that. And when you brought this to my attention I suggested we either up the Pro division prize pool or decrease the lower divisions pool so that if you place top 8 in your division, you win more than 1st in any division below. Does that make sense? Perhaps something like this:
3. Prizes
- Cash payout to top players from each division.
- Top 8 Pro division
- 1st - $400
- 2nd - $300
- 3rd/4th - $150
- 5th-8th - $125
- Top 4 Advanced division
- 1st - $100
- 2nd - $75
- 3rd/4th - $40
- Top 2 Intermediate division
- 1st - $30
- 2nd - $20

The prize pool already makes more sense imo, although advanced division is still too high, 100$ is a lot.

There's still the smurfing issue as you said. People will smurf, you can be sure of that. I'm maybe too pessimistic but I think that the pr20- top eight will at least have 5 smurfs :P
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06 Aug 2019, 00:19

lesllamas wrote:Given AoE3's history of having multiple extremely shady tournament players who don't respect rules (this isn't to say that this is a majority of the playerbase--just that there's always been 1 or 2 people at any given time doing SOMETHING that's controversial or just straight up cheating), I would be extremely wary of having ANY prize pool for anything but the highest bracket. I can almost guarantee that one player or another will abuse the rules you establish in some way that they end up fraudulently winning the mid / lower bracket. Don't even give people the opportunity.


I seem to be hung up on having prize support for each division. I just want their to be something on the line and provide incentive for all players to do their best, if that is only a PR35 or PR10 level of play. It is a sorry state of affairs when people would cheat in a tournament this small just to give themselves a better chance to win $40 or $100. But I can accept that the accuracy of the intended divisions is degraded from people smurfing. Is there a better division structure that could help to preserve as much integrity as possibly while still maintaining the chance of a prize for all players. Perhaps the divisions can be as such instead:

- Pro PR35+
- Advanced PR25-34
- Intermediate PR15-24
- Beginner - PR14 and below
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Kiribati jesus3
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06 Aug 2019, 00:21

Nice, I'm advanced according to this suggestion. I'm gonna sign it
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France [Armag] diarouga
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06 Aug 2019, 00:21

People would still smurf. Pr35+ probably wouldn't smurf in the advanced tournament with this format (and that's not even sure), but intermediate and beginner will be full of smurfs.
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06 Aug 2019, 00:28

jesus3 wrote:Nice, I'm advanced according to this suggestion. I'm gonna sign it

I am not certain your meaning here, but I will assume this is in support of the event until you tell me otherwise :biggrin:
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United States of America lesllamas
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06 Aug 2019, 00:34

No distribution of PRs in given brackets is gonna stop the smurfing problem. The only way to do lower brackets with legit monetary prizes without opening yourself up to being taken advantage of is to have 100% perfect identity verification. AoE3 has absolutely terrible identity verification. Because of this, the best incentives for lower brackets are almost always not monetary, but rather honor based / perk based.

If you were to have a tournament before another LAN, say, you could reward the winner of the mid bracket with a flight to the LAN and an opportunity to cast one of the earlier matches alongside a more experienced caster. Even that gets a little dicey so long as you can avoid a kynesie/tit type situation.

Something I'd suggest that's maybe a bit more constructive is something akin to a brilliancy prize that is sometimes given out in chess tournaments. This could go to any single match in the tournament from any bracket, but at your discretion (or viewer voting), you could give a smaller cash prize to the player who pulls out a victory via the most insane or come from behind strategy. This might just become the honorary Aizamk prize, but it's at least an idea lol
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06 Aug 2019, 00:34

[Armag] diarouga wrote:People would still smurf. Pr35+ probably wouldn't smurf in the advanced tournament with this format (and that's not even sure), but intermediate and beginner will be full of smurfs.


Well, I think that is better. There would be no prize support for the beginner division, but perhaps we can work out some non-monetary prize. I was thinking maybe the top player in the beginner division gets a 2 hour coaching session from a top player that we can bribe. I am fine watching the Intermediate division being played with smurfs in the mix. There will still be a fairly significant skill level drop in the play of this division and would represent the skill level of many viewers, albeit a PR28 playing under the guise of a PR24 which is not that much of a smurf.
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06 Aug 2019, 00:43

lesllamas wrote:No distribution of PRs in given brackets is gonna stop the smurfing problem. The only way to do lower brackets with legit monetary prizes without opening yourself up to being taken advantage of is to have 100% perfect identity verification. AoE3 has absolutely terrible identity verification. Because of this, the best incentives for lower brackets are almost always not monetary, but rather honor based / perk based.

If you were to have a tournament before another LAN, say, you could reward the winner of the mid bracket with a flight to the LAN and an opportunity to cast one of the earlier matches alongside a more experienced caster. Even that gets a little dicey so long as you can avoid a kynesie/tit type situation.

Something I'd suggest that's maybe a bit more constructive is something akin to a brilliancy prize that is sometimes given out in chess tournaments. This could go to any single match in the tournament from any bracket, but at your discretion (or viewer voting), you could give a smaller cash prize to the player who pulls out a victory via the most insane or come from behind strategy. This might just become the honorary Aizamk prize, but it's at least an idea lol


From what I have gathered, fighting the smurfs is nearly impossible. Trying to structure the tournament so that the impact of this issue is as minimal as possible is ideal.

I do like the idea of a non-monetary prizes, but cash is king and if I am going to spend the same amount of money on the prize, might as well be cash itself I give.

I would love to add additional prize support such as the brilliancy prize you suggested. Perhaps these prizes can be scaled based on the division you are in. So, if you have the most unique BO as voted by viewers and are playing in the INT division, you get $10 but if you were in the advanced you would get $15 and in the pro $25. If we had several of these types of prizes, it would also help keep smurfs in their true division because they have yet another way to win more money by doing so. Lets try to think of more ideas for prizes like this. I do enjoy the idea of viewers voting for players to receive prizes. I would also like to have the casters decide on a prize for something. Also, I would like to see the pro div top 8 vote to give a prize to a lower lever player, advanced to intermediate and intermediate to beginner. Lets hear those ideas.
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Kiribati SirCallen
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06 Aug 2019, 00:48

I've learned lesllamas is always right
and the giving famishes the craving
sweet thames, run softly, til I end my song

The shepherd's staff's tantalus around my neck

let the water
touch the tongue
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United States of America HeadKilla
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06 Aug 2019, 00:50

SirCallen wrote:I've learned lesllamas is always right


he is batting 1000% with me so far.
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United States of America lesllamas
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06 Aug 2019, 01:21

I just used to organize and host lots of tournaments in gaming communities where similar discussions were had / conclusions were reached. AoE3 definitely has its own set of hurdles to overcome though that I'm not 100% how to deal with.
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United States of America musketeer925
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06 Aug 2019, 03:14

lesllamas wrote: This might just become the honorary Aizamk prize, but it's at least an idea lol

Please let @Aizamk himself decide who is worthy of such an award
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Turkey Mameluke
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06 Aug 2019, 04:09

Double Gather Rate Tournament.
If you see any mistakes in my grammar/vocabulary or whatever, please correct me. I really appreciate it :!: :flowers:
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Brazil macacoalbino
Howdah
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ESO: Chumbo_Grosso_

06 Aug 2019, 04:17

lesllamas wrote:This might just become the honorary Aizamk prize, but it's at least an idea lol

I'd fight more for the Honorary Aizamk prize than actually winning the whole thing tbh :P
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No hacks just (lack of) skillz

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United States of America HeadKilla
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The Big Game Hunter - Bronze ElephantDonator Best
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ESO: Headkilla
Location: Minnesota

06 Aug 2019, 09:28

macacoalbino wrote:
lesllamas wrote:This might just become the honorary Aizamk prize, but it's at least an idea lol

I'd fight more for the Honorary Aizamk prize than actually winning the whole thing tbh :P


I know that in Discgolf tournaments, I was a low level pro division player and I was not going to take any of top prizes home. So, I would practice the Closest to Pin and Long Drive challenge holes more than anything so that I could possible win one of those prizes to come out ahead. While I was still focused on the main event and my overall score, each round I had the chance to win $100 on 2 holes and I felt, financially, that was the better bet for my situation. I enjoy players having different motivations and goals for themselves. Only a handful of people can be winners of an event, but anyone can still win something.

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