No Flag Astaroth
Dragoon
Posts: 202

06 Aug 2019, 18:58

I know, this does sound a lot like a flaming thread, but that isn't really the point. I just find it an interesting observation that people in Aoe3 on average, even or especially at the top level, often get quite salty when losing. Especially when e g. compared with Aoe2.

Obviously not every Aoe3 player always gets salty nor is every Aoe2 player never salty. Especially some guys like MbL or Hera do get salty occasionally.

But I feel that for Aoe3 it is on a whole other level. Many players make excuses when they lose, complain, blame this or that, don't write gg, just go "out" etc. Conversely in Aoe2, most (top) players write gg 99 % of the time. I think I've never ever seen e. g. Daut or Viper after losing (yes, Viper loses) write sth in chat like, "Meh, bad map // unfair matchup" etc (even if that was objectively the case). Many aoe2 pros can lose 0-4 in an important tourney, be really mad inside, but still write gg wp gl next round.

Is it just me? Is the sample size too small? Am I missing sth? Or are Aoe3 players on average more salty? If yes, why is that? And I don't think it is because Aoe3 has such especially unfair matchups or maps; aoe2 can be quite similar to that in some cases (Khmer VS Mayans on land or so, let alone unfair maps).

Just to emphasize: I don't exempt myself from that, I used to be fairly bad myself when playing actively.
Australia Kawapasaka
Lancer
Posts: 602
Location: Wales (new, south)

06 Aug 2019, 19:01

I get mad at games all the time but I force myself to shut up and say gg.
Image
User avatar
Argentina Riotcoke
Jaeger
Donator 01
Posts: 2154
ESO: Riotcoke
Location: Best County in the UK

06 Aug 2019, 19:02

Everyone knows everyone at a certain level, so you get grudges and people get more salty. Some people are just very salty though, not going to name names but a certain water player who likes walls from turkey is the saltiest.
Islas Malvinas son Britanicas
User avatar
Armenia Sargsyan
Jaeger
Donator 01
Posts: 2275
ESO: Sargsyan
Location: Armenia
GameRanger ID: 2106182

06 Aug 2019, 19:08

i may burn inside but dont complain to not look like a retarded nerd
Image
Image
User avatar
No Flag Djigit
Lancer
Posts: 846

06 Aug 2019, 19:10

That's because the game is extremely frustrating.
I mean look at the age1 tryhards who seek to steal your treasure at all cost, instead of scouting and getting a better one lol. The treasure system is a cancer...
Emperor of
Image
User avatar
Turkey Mameluke
Dragoon
Posts: 471
ESO: Mameluké
Location: Gym

06 Aug 2019, 19:51

since when its salty to say "bad map/unfair mu"? Also unnecessary comments yes, but its not flaming (the opponent) or being salty. salty would be like a top player said once "lost to a noob out". And its imo very natural to be a bit salty, insulting other ppl is something different ofc. Blaming map, matchup, saying something like "lost to a noob out" are quite normal things after losing a game. Ofc it would be better to not do it but We're HUMANS :D
If you see any mistakes in my grammar/vocabulary or whatever, please correct me. I really appreciate it :!: :flowers:
User avatar
Holy See bepsi
Musketeer
Posts: 65

06 Aug 2019, 20:00

Interesting observation. I do think that the rift caused by the esoc patch, dividing the community into an self proclaimed class of 'pros' vis-a-vis the vast bulk of unwashed noobs still playing on the RE patch, generates a whole lot of toxicity in and of itself. The inherent country club mentality it fosters is conductive to in-group bullying and pecking order, and a snobbish attitude towards outsiders. Apart from the apparent evils this phenomenon is bound to generate, it will certainly also alienate the vast majority of potential community members globally who are unaccustomed to the anglo-american (ie puritist) mindset. Just my 2 cents. :kinggreen:
User avatar
Italy Garja
ESOC Maps Team
Donator 02
Posts: 7797
ESO: Garja

06 Aug 2019, 20:05

Honestly there isn't any rift. You wouldn't simply have a competitive scene without the EP.
User avatar
New Zealand zoom
EP Project Lead
Posts: 8820
ESO: Funnu
Location: New_Sweland

06 Aug 2019, 20:11

It's definitely true. Personally, I just find it funny.
Effective ESOC Patch notes

"♪We can ascend 'till we reach De La Heaven; and in a spin we'll hit the Top Ten♫"
"♪We're special in other ways – ways our mothers appreciate♫"
User avatar
Canada Mitoe
ESOC Media Team
EWTNWC LAN Top 8
Posts: 4231
ESO: Mitoe
GameRanger ID: 346407

06 Aug 2019, 20:12

I’ve always found it strange that people insist on making excuses / flaming with 300+ viewers watching and judging.

I don’t really think it’s necessarily that AoE3 players are saltier than other games, but I do feel like twitch chat culture feels much more personal / toxic than some other games. I mean, twitch chat’s pretty toxic in some games like League of Legends, but that’s more memeing than anything else; in AoE3 it feels like all the viewers mean what they say, and oftentimes what they’re saying is that one player is bad and insulting them etc.

I think knowing that this is what the audience is like automatically puts some players on the defensive when they start losing—as if they have to justify their loss for the audience or else lose face somehow.
User avatar
Holy See bepsi
Musketeer
Posts: 65

06 Aug 2019, 20:16

Nice filibuster.
User avatar
United States of America Papist
Retired Contributor
Donator 03
Posts: 2530
ESO: Papist

06 Aug 2019, 20:16

bepsi wrote:Interesting observation. I do think that the rift caused by the esoc patch, dividing the community into an self proclaimed class of 'pros' vis-a-vis the vast bulk of unwashed noobs still playing on the RE patch, generates a whole lot of toxicity in and of itself. The inherent country club mentality it fosters is conductive to in-group bullying and pecking order, and a snobbish attitude towards outsiders. Apart from the apparent evils this phenomenon is bound to generate, it will certainly also alienate the vast majority of potential community members globally who are unaccustomed to the anglo-american (ie puritist) mindset. Just my 2 cents. :kinggreen:


This all seems like a bit of a stretch considering most people on RE have never heard of the EP at all.

And as someone who's been a part of both communities for a long time, I haven't seen what you're saying about this community being a vehicle for in-group bullying and snobbery. Sure people here fault the RE for its technical bugs and bad civ balance, but who doesn't? And when has anyone here attacked the people who play on RE?
The function of man is to live, not to exist.
User avatar
Turkey HUMMAN
Lancer
Posts: 743
ESO: HUMMAN

06 Aug 2019, 20:24

lol people here even attack EP treaty players :D
Image
France flontier
Dragoon
Posts: 265
ESO: Flontier

06 Aug 2019, 20:25

wtf, people in aoe3 aren't salty at all https://i.gyazo.com/113cb8f014486a08e3a ... db0e8b.png
User avatar
Argentina Riotcoke
Jaeger
Donator 01
Posts: 2154
ESO: Riotcoke
Location: Best County in the UK

06 Aug 2019, 20:37

bepsi wrote:Interesting observation. I do think that the rift caused by the esoc patch, dividing the community into an self proclaimed class of 'pros' vis-a-vis the vast bulk of unwashed noobs still playing on the RE patch, generates a whole lot of toxicity in and of itself. The inherent country club mentality it fosters is conductive to in-group bullying and pecking order, and a snobbish attitude towards outsiders. Apart from the apparent evils this phenomenon is bound to generate, it will certainly also alienate the vast majority of potential community members globally who are unaccustomed to the anglo-american (ie puritist) mindset. Just my 2 cents. :kinggreen:

Nobody stops you playing EP, there's pr20s who play EP. It's for everyone.
Islas Malvinas son Britanicas
User avatar
Germany japanesegeneral
Lancer
Posts: 539
ESO: JapaneseGeneral
Location: Germany

06 Aug 2019, 20:37

This community is a E-dick-measuring community. Which basically explains the behavior you discribed. Lets get into detail about this topic:
Some people claim you have to measure the length others claim you have to calculate your Adjusted Penis Size (or TMI) with the following formula:
((L*D)+(W/G))/(A^2)
Length times Diameter plus Weight over Girth divided by Angle of the tip squared. (It is the most commonly used formula to calculate the TMI, but there are multiple out there for more information on that topic click on the link: https://southpark.fandom.com/wiki/T.M.I./Trivia

While many members of the community claim the calculation of the TMI would be wrong, some believe all that matters is size. Yes it is obvious nobody wants to be beneath average in terms of your E-dick size. That is why everybody tries to make sure the community gets to know you have one of the biggest E-dicks there are. The best way to archieve that is by telling everyone why a certain map sucks, or a certain mu is unwinnable, they would have won the game without lag. It is promotion for your formula. Everyone tries make their own calculation formula for the TMI to be considered the one and only. However no one has archieved anything like that in the past. Thats why most players fear other calculations might be correct. To put it in a nutshell most players fear having a small E-penis. The natural reaction to fear is angry behaviour which is just a synonm for salty behaviour. There is no way people will stop the measuring. So you gotta adapt to it but once you find the beauty of E-dick-measuring you will find the pleasure in this community.
6 petards a day keep the doctor away.
User avatar
Canada Mitoe
ESOC Media Team
EWTNWC LAN Top 8
Posts: 4231
ESO: Mitoe
GameRanger ID: 346407

06 Aug 2019, 20:41

Also, for what it's worth, I think the community has improved a lot this year in terms of friendliness.
User avatar
Russia yurashic
Howdah
Posts: 1157
ESO: Yurashic
Location: Russia

06 Aug 2019, 22:15

I wouldn't say this community is any more toxic than any other community really, it's small so you can't really be toxic, you meet these people all the time anyway.
User avatar
France [Armag] diarouga
Gendarme
NWC LAN Gold
Posts: 9799
ESO: diarouga
Location: France

06 Aug 2019, 22:23

Imo it's just a matter of habits.
_h2o, bsop and garja (who were considered to be the top players in 2015) were extremely salty.
As a result, the new generation of top players assumed that it was okay or even normal to complain after a game instead of typing "gg gl in the next round".
I think that without the Ryan rage, people would GG more often.

It's also easy to blame a loss on lag, MU, map etc.
User avatar
France [Armag] diarouga
Gendarme
NWC LAN Gold
Posts: 9799
ESO: diarouga
Location: France

06 Aug 2019, 22:24

Mitoe wrote:Also, for what it's worth, I think the community has improved a lot this year in terms of friendliness.

Hum, I think the opposite tbh.
User avatar
United States of America dicktator_
Howdah
EWT
Posts: 1122
ESO: Conquerer999

06 Aug 2019, 22:28

In tournies and casted games it definitely got better imo.
steniothejonjoe wrote:I can micro better than 99% of the player base and that's 100% objective
User avatar
Kiribati jesus3
Howdah
Posts: 1483

06 Aug 2019, 22:42

A pinch of salt usually adds to the flavour, however, truckloads of salt may or may not impact the edibility of that dish immensely and irreversibly
Australia Kawapasaka
Lancer
Posts: 602
Location: Wales (new, south)

07 Aug 2019, 05:32

The best thing about EP is you can't pest the people you hate because there's nobody else to play with :mrgreen:
Image
User avatar
Romania Dolan
Jaeger
Posts: 4327
Location: aka Neuron

07 Aug 2019, 06:33

Nah, this community is quite tame compared to those of other games, like LoL. And it's actually friendlier because most people know each other, so there's less anonimity than in bigger communities, in which nobody cares much about the impact of what they're saying. Or about their reputation.

On the other hand, in smaller communities, it's likely that people may be more self-conscious about their reputation, so they may take a loss much more seriously than if they were part of a bigger community. So things might get more personal in both directions, on both sides (streamers/viewers, high-level players/low-level players, etc). It's like living in a small building of flats, in which everyone knows their neighbours, compared to living in a high-rise tower, in which you might barely know the people on your floor and the concierge.

If the community got substantially bigger, these conflicts and personal grudges would defuse, because there would be so many more players and competition, that you would simply not have time to care about losing to one player among tens of thousands. You'd be too busy jumping into another game. But you wouldn't have closer or more familiar relations either, so increased anonymity would cut both ways.
I love good randomness; highly addictive.
No Flag Astaroth
Dragoon
Posts: 202

07 Aug 2019, 07:24

Thanks for all the input so far, good points.

Another few thoughts: maybe the fast pace of the game (compared to Aoe2) actually contributes to the saltiness. For one, games are very high adrenaline, so a loss affects you more than in a calmer setting. Also, games are often decided in a blink, so you might suddenly lose when before you thought you had a big lead, making you feel very disappointed and surprised. It's easier to accept a loss imo when the game is 20 minutes long and you have already been thinking for 5 mins that you will likely lose.

I suppose the demographic of the game might also be slightly younger than in eg Aoe2? Sure, some Aoe3 players are in their mid 20s, but I feel that aoe2 players on average are still a bit older (Daut haha).

Forum Info

Return to “General”



Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 3 guests