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So, the Maps mentioned in the title have a rather low amount of hunts but huge amounts of food in berries. Could Spice Trade be a valid option to send late colonial on those maps, because you also slow down the transition to mills and save wood in the short term? If yes for what civs? Is going onto water just better, esp. on Indonesia? Afaik sometimes people have/used to have spice trade in their russia decks due to the relatively free last age 2 slot.

Yes for example instead of 700f

Yea I think it's a fine card on few maps

I would never use it. You won't send it early, a lot of food has been deployed already, your crates have been sent which means that probably at least 30% of your vills are on wood+gold. You might get a short temporary advantage of sending spice trade instead of eco theory but in a long run spice trade is completely useless and eco theory boosting your eco 10% rest of the game. Also, eco theory goes to age 1 slot which is better than age 2.

Both are overkill. Eco theory>Spice trade.

Idk on a map like cascade and its like 15mins i think its worth it with the 5 berry patches.

somppukunkku wrote:I would never use it. You won't send it early, a lot of food has been deployed already, your crates have been sent which means that probably at least 30% of your vills are on wood+gold. You might get a short temporary advantage of sending spice trade instead of eco theory but in a long run spice trade is completely useless and eco theory boosting your eco 10% rest of the game. Also, eco theory goes to age 1 slot which is better than age 2.

Both are overkill. Eco theory>Spice trade.

Nah it's not that clear. On some maps you use hunts then berries until minute 25-30, so spice trade can definitely be fine for late colo. Agreed, eco theory is as good if you have 2/3 of your vils on food, and better if you have less, but with most civs you probs have 2/3 anyway. And in late colo you can send both

Quik mafs:
20% on 0.67 is 0.134
Compare to 700f
700f/0.134=VS needed to gather 700 extra food from the spice trade bonus alone=5224 VS
Assuming you have 20 vils on berries that means 261 seconds.
VS starts paying off roughly 4 minutes after you sent it, compared to 700f, assuming you have 20 vils on berries.

Let's look at it another way:
You have 5 berry bushes in base, so 5000f
Gathered at 0.67, they run out after 7463 seconds
Gathered at 0.804 they run out after 6219 seconds
You gained 1244 vill seconds after gathering 5 bushes, that means 249 VS for each bush

Doesn't seem too great if you ask me. On top of that you could also send refrigeration instead that can boost mills as well or eco theory which has the same effect but the benefit is halved.

Yes it's a great card. Also eco theory after that, when you chop for mills and for mills themselves.
4 minute is an acceptable time frame to pay off and usually at the point when you are on berries it's more than 20v anyway.

Spice trade doesn't affect gathering from mills, does it?

BrookG wrote:Spice trade doesn't affect gathering from mills, does it?

No

At least not on Indonesia, cuz if you are using water you want rather fishing boats up and if you aren't, you want to be aggressive.

There used to be a strategy where Russia ages up with 17 vills and gets a TP in discovery allowing them to squeeze in spice trade. I haven't seen that strategy in years so it must be ineffective. The biggest problem is that there will always be better cards to send as Somppu says. Ports can also use spice trade in niche circumstances (and on RE), but even for ports 700f is just better.

That was before the TP meta. You didn't have to worry about the opponent going to fortress, and it's a great late colonial build.
It's sad, because currently the only way to play Russia is the bot way : 5coss rush and spam units and bh all over the map.

gamevideo113 wrote:Quik mafs:
20% on 0.67 is 0.134
Compare to 700f
700f/0.134=VS needed to gather 700 extra food from the spice trade bonus alone=5224 VS
Assuming you have 20 vils on berries that means 261 seconds.
VS starts paying off roughly 4 minutes after you sent it, compared to 700f, assuming you have 20 vils on berries.

Let's look at it another way:
You have 5 berry bushes in base, so 5000f
Gathered at 0.67, they run out after 7463 seconds
Gathered at 0.804 they run out after 6219 seconds
You gained 1244 vill seconds after gathering 5 bushes, that means 249 VS for each bush

Doesn't seem too great if you ask me. On top of that you could also send refrigeration instead that can boost mills as well or eco theory which has the same effect but the benefit is halved.

For one thing, the point of spice trade is that you can ship it when you're still on hunts, which means more food income than what you calculated.
For another, 4 minutes to pay off is totally fine. For the record, a 5 vils shipment with gang saw researched takes a bit more than 4 minutes to gather 700w, and same for a bank wagon to gather 700g.

Ah and ofc refrigeration is way superior. But that's an age 3 card.

I think it's never a viable option, early, but after hunts run out, surely.

Depends on the amount of hunts on the map. Klondike without TPs would be a great example of a map where spice trade would be viable in late colonial. You could ship it before hunts even run out (at like 15 min or so) and then use it on the berries.
In fact we don't see it often on this map because most of the time you're busy fighting for the TP line and/or fortress already.