No Flag DracoWolfgand
Skirmisher
Posts: 108

13 Aug 2019, 18:46

I heard a lot of players complain about Indian cavalry being weak, so... I thought of a few tweaks that could possibly be done. I know that it would be impossible to know, on pratice, how it would affect the balance without playtesting it, but... Just let me know what you think:

-Replace the Sowar anti-infantry multiplier with a anti-Heavy Cavalry multiplier. Remove his negative multiplier against Heavy Infantry. Increase base hitpoints to 250.

-Replace the Zamburak anti-Heavy Cavalry multiplier with a anti- Infantry multiplier. Infantry units that are not Heavy infantry would now all get a multiplier specifically against the Zamburak of x0.5. Increase the Zamburak ranged resistance to 50%. Heavy cavalry units now get a multiplier against the Zamburak of x2.0

-Desert terror effect would be changed to fit with the new multipliers( Meaning, with Desert Terror, Sowar would have a 3.0x multiplier against Heavy Cavalry, and Zamburak a 3.0x multiplier against Light Infantry. )

-Lower the Mahout Lancer and Howdah population cost to 5.

-Increase the Mahout Lancer attack to 36.

-Remove the Mahout Lancer negative multiplier against Heavy Infantry.

-"Elephant Combat" card also increases the siege damage of Mahout Lancer and the Howdah by 50%.

... So, honestly, I actually thought the original Zamburak was fine from a balance perspective, however, while I was buffing the Sowar, I thought I could also make him more like typical Camels of previous games, just to give it more of its own niche when compared to other heavy cavalry units on this game... And that would mean the Indians would need a new anti-Light Infantry unit.
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Great Britain Riotcoke
ESOC Media Team
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Location: Best County in the UK

13 Aug 2019, 18:55

India doesn't need buffs if you want to see how good mahout lancers can be just watch sommpu play please.
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Australia Kawapasaka
Dragoon
Donator 06
Posts: 363
ESO: skirmisher1380
Location: Shitney

13 Aug 2019, 18:57

Great let's remove India's only weakness why don't we give flaming arrows 34 range while we're at it.
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Brazil Luciofrancosi
Musketeer
Posts: 54
ESO: luciofrancosi
Location: UK

13 Aug 2019, 19:06

Wtf, india already probably have the highest win rate on this game!! Their cav is cost efficient, especially carded zambs, u can mass them easily!!
Also who needs cav when u have urumi and a ridiculously strong musk unit, also u get to melee artillery for free with cease fire!!
Yep, India definitely needs another buff
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No Flag DracoWolfgand
Skirmisher
Posts: 108

13 Aug 2019, 19:14

Did... This game received a update I wasnt made aware of? I was under the impression the main complaint about the Mahout Lancer was preciselly that it was far too expensive for its stats.
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New Zealand zoom
EP Project Lead
Posts: 8506
ESO: Funnu
Location: New_Sweland

13 Aug 2019, 19:16

DracoWolfgand wrote:I heard a lot of players complain about Indian cavalry being weak, so... I thought of a few tweaks that could possibly be done. I know that it would be impossible to know, on pratice, how it would affect the balance without playtesting it, but... Just let me know what you think:

-Replace the Sowar anti-infantry multiplier with a anti-Heavy Cavalry multiplier. Remove his negative multiplier against Heavy Infantry. Increase base hitpoints to 250.

-Replace the Zamburak anti-Heavy Cavalry multiplier with a anti- Infantry multiplier. Infantry units that are not Heavy infantry would now all get a multiplier specifically against the Zamburak of x0.5. Increase the Zamburak ranged resistance to 50%. Heavy cavalry units now get a multiplier against the Zamburak of x2.0

-Desert terror effect would be changed to fit with the new multipliers( Meaning, with Desert Terror, Sowar would have a 3.0x multiplier against Heavy Cavalry, and Zamburak a 3.0x multiplier against Light Infantry. )

-Lower the Mahout Lancer and Howdah population cost to 5.

-Increase the Mahout Lancer attack to 36.

-Remove the Mahout Lancer negative multiplier against Heavy Infantry.

-"Elephant Combat" card also increases the siege damage of Mahout Lancer and the Howdah by 50%.

... So, honestly, I actually thought the original Zamburak was fine from a balance perspective, however, while I was buffing the Sowar, I thought I could also make him more like typical Camels of previous games, just to give it more of its own niche when compared to other heavy cavalry units on this game... And that would mean the Indians would need a new anti-Light Infantry unit.
It's true that Indians' heavy cavalry isn't particularly good, but it doesn't necessarily warrant being any better. It only really has to be good enough to be viable, and not break the civilization by way of an insurmountable weakness. Buffing it significantly, at this time, is risky, too. The Zamburak is amazing and was recently nerfed, in fact.

I do like balancing the "Camel Attack" and "Desert Terror" shipments (the former is simply so much stronger than the latter), buffing Mahout Lancer population cost from 7 to 6, and the "Professional Handlers" shipment, though.
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New Zealand zoom
EP Project Lead
Posts: 8506
ESO: Funnu
Location: New_Sweland

13 Aug 2019, 19:16

Kawapasaka wrote:Great let's remove India's only weakness why don't we give flaming arrows 34 range while we're at it.
Oh, that's a great idea!
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France Kaiserklein
Gendarme
NWC LAN 4th place
Posts: 7097
Location: Paris
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13 Aug 2019, 19:19

Anyway these buffs are absolutely crazy, way too much. Also zambs are strong enough already
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Brazil 5CH3U3R
Crossbow
Posts: 8
ESO: reuehcS

13 Aug 2019, 21:21

@DracoWolfgand I agree that India's cavalry is weaker than the others, but if it is BUFF then some NERF would be needed for India.

Some things will be hard for you to see happening here, BUFF Indian cavalry, BUFF all hand infantry, mercenary balancing, BUFF Iroque Azteca Sioux for the absence of factories ... the list is long.
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Italy gamevideo113
Howdah
Posts: 1044
ESO: gamevideo113

13 Aug 2019, 22:38

Indian cav is not even that weak, you just need to send cards like you would with japan's ashi, which until carded are quite poor stats/cost wise. Just as a reminder, camels have 7.5 speed and after they are carded they counter respectively skirms and cav really hard. Also zambs are available in age2 (age2 goons anyone?) and sowars have already been buffed iirc.
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New Zealand zoom
EP Project Lead
Posts: 8506
ESO: Funnu
Location: New_Sweland

13 Aug 2019, 23:01

5CH3U3R wrote:@DracoWolfgand I agree that India's cavalry is weaker than the others, but if it is BUFF then some NERF would be needed for India.

Some things will be hard for you to see happening here, BUFF Indian cavalry, BUFF all hand infantry, mercenary balancing, BUFF Iroque Azteca Sioux for the absence of factories ... the list is long.
You should probably strike Sioux from that list. Also, IDK that Iroquois warrants any compensation for Factories, because 22 range Forest Prowlers are difficult to counter.
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Italy gamevideo113
Howdah
Posts: 1044
ESO: gamevideo113

14 Aug 2019, 00:30

Well that's true to an extent. You don't really care about 22 range forest prowlers when you can produce twice as many skirms of your own. The lategame economy of TWC civs (aztec eco is actually acceptable imo, the problem kinda lies in their units) is simply underwhelming and there isn't much that makes up for it, but generally speaking these civs have some extra tricks up their sleeves in the earlier ages (compared to euro civs) and this is a game design choice. These civs rely heavily on a stagecoached tp line to stay relevant in the lategame.
Aztecs simply need better units imo.
Sioux eco is seriously hopeless so perhaps promoting dog soldier production from the firepit is the way to go. It is already a better alternative to plantations imo.
And for iroquois, it would actually be cool to see some tweaking to Earth Mother Dance, if anything about their lategame has to be done. I think it takes too much APM for a quite negligible benefit, and nobody uses that dance anyway, soo i guess it could be even just redesigned from scratch in a creative way.
Anyway these points are mainly about team games because they don't really apply to 99% of 1v1 games, since they end in colonial or fortress most of the time.
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Canada dansil92
Dragoon
Posts: 485
ESO: dansil92

14 Aug 2019, 00:37

Iro lategame eco isnt exactly phenomenal but their transition to plantations / farms is nearly free with travois, meaning in an actual lategame war of attrition, iro can quite easily compete against nearly any civ for quite a long time.

Back on topic, india cav is fine. Move the jat lancer shipment to fortress would be the only buff i can imagine india needing in the cav department

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