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Follow up to hazza's thread

This is Germany on 200w start.

Monster civ.

somppukunkku wrote:Follow up to hazza's thread

This is Germany on 200w start.

cheating accusations are not allowed on this website.

@Garja @pecelot

Germanys is actually the worsts city because the willaiger don't do melee resistance, and are weaker so they dies easily to cavs

Germans good civilization. If only you had recorded your game, though!

Germany won't be balanced until wood start gets removed tbh.

moesbar civ

Typical thread with zero context and the biased poster only showing what he wants

u don't need any fucking context to know how unfair this MU is with 200w start, I didn't even lose any vill to raid before it was over. Even breeze was just lmfaoing how bad he played and still won lol.

the MU sucks on any start DD

Can we stop spamming threads about a issue everyone knows about

You can't play spain and you probs played shit too. If you waste that many units early on you simply lose vs a half decent spain.
Anyway I'm not saying the mu isn't ger favoured. 200w start isn't necessarily op vs spain for the record, since on many maps it means you just lose your explorer directly and get zero treasure

Riotcoke wrote:Can we stop spamming threads about a issue everyone knows about

Not everyone knows about that though, some people still claim that Germany isn't op.

[Armag] diarouga wrote:

Riotcoke wrote:Can we stop spamming threads about a issue everyone knows about

Not everyone knows about that though, some people still claim that Germany isn't op.

Everyone that matters knows, even someone you claim to be in the 'german lobby' Kaiser has said that Germany needs a nerf.

Among all civs Germans can face Spain is honestly not the easiest one. As much as Spain is weak in general.

deleted_user wrote:

somppukunkku wrote:Follow up to hazza's thread

This is Germany on 200w start.

cheating accusations are not allowed on this website.

@Garja @pecelot

thank you I've already banned him

Have you tried musk rushing 'em

Goodspeed wrote:Have you tried musk rushing 'em

8bows+mm => all musks dead.

Seriously, if musk rush doesn't work as France, and hardly with brit, it's not going to work with Spain.

I know plenty of habitual nilla civ players who have spiked at least +5-10 PR by switching to/learning asian civs, breaking out of the capt-major swamp. In fact I have records of such players trying asian civs for fun beating (legit) PR 35-40 players in qs. If someone could provide a single example of, say, a capt-major lvl India lamer who by switching to Germany made the same PR journey I would maybe grant that perhaps the civ is op, however contrary to my experience that may be. Hypothesis: people playing asian civs do get overranked and when, eventually, faced with real skill starts to whine and wants to move the goalposts. Patching the game in order to appease said lamers might result in the whole enterprise degenerating into a tyranny of the loud.

bepsi wrote:I know plenty of habitual nilla civ players who have spiked at least +5-10 PR by switching to/learning asian civs, breaking out of the capt-major swamp. In fact I have records of such players trying asian civs for fun beating (legit) PR 35-40 players in qs. If someone could provide a single example of, say, a capt-major lvl India lamer who by switching to Germany made the same PR journey I would maybe grant that perhaps the civ is op, however contrary to my experience that may be. Hypothesis: people playing asian civs do get overranked and when, eventually, faced with real skill starts to whine and wants to move the goalposts. Patching the game in order to appease said lamers might result in the whole enterprise degenerating into a tyranny of the loud.

No way a captain beats a pr40 just by playing a TAD civ xD.

You also have to keep in mind that India is a noob friendly civ because you don't need a lot of skill when you go 100% sepoy, so it's probably the best civ at captain-major level. Germany is hard to play however, so if a noob picks Germany he'll make mistakes a lose, but if you play Germany well, then you just don't lose because the civ is op.

[Armag] diarouga wrote:[quote="bepsi" Germany is hard to play however, so if a noob picks Germany he'll make mistakes a lose, but if you play Germany well, then you just don't lose because the civ is op.

It seems like 90% of players, myself included, could not take advantage of the OP advantages Germany seems to have. We simply are not playing at a high enough level to where the level of imbalance is actually effecting our games. I read Germany was OP. I wanted to beat my friends on a more consistent level, I started playing Germany. I lost many, many games in a row despite 200w start or TP non-TP maps. However when we watch the highest level players go head to head, it is obvious that something is going on with Germany.

I think it's best to look at Balance through a different lens when looking at around capt and Major level, civs like India and I'd even say Japan feel pretty easy compared to some TAD civs so might be seen as op. Me and Rouga have sort of already had this discussion in regards to RE Iro vs RE Germany.

HeadKilla wrote:

[Armag] diarouga wrote:[quote="bepsi" Germany is hard to play however, so if a noob picks Germany he'll make mistakes a lose, but if you play Germany well, then you just don't lose because the civ is op.

It seems like 90% of players, myself included, could not take advantage of the OP advantages Germany seems to have. We simply are not playing at a high enough level to where the level of imbalance is actually effecting our games. I read Germany was OP. I wanted to beat my friends on a more consistent level, I started playing Germany. I lost many, many games in a row despite 200w start or TP non-TP maps. However when we watch the highest level players go head to head, it is obvious that something is going on with Germany.

Let's just call it the emperor's new clothes.

HeadKilla wrote:

[Armag] diarouga wrote:[quote="bepsi" Germany is hard to play however, so if a noob picks Germany he'll make mistakes a lose, but if you play Germany well, then you just don't lose because the civ is op.

We simply are not playing at a high enough level to where the level of imbalance is actually effecting our games.

Yeah for example I've had great success with Japan vs Germany lately but I keep hearing it's a hopeless MU for Japs. At the same time I've been getting crushed as France and Brits despite them supposedly having a much better time against Germany. Some aspects of gameplay just aren't as relative to the level of play as others. The difference between a pr26 sepoy rush and a pr40 sepoy rush probably isn't as big as the difference between a pr26 and pr40 attempting to pull off a successful defense and semi-ff against it.

I think BSOP had great success rushing with Japan, if that is what you are referring to, and the videos are still available for download (Buckethead hosts them somehow on a web service). I would've loved to see how any top player today would have fared with France or Germany vs BSOPs or H2Os Japan in their prime.