Should starting crates be fixed for all civilizations?

Yes
46
59%
No
32
41%
 
Total votes: 78

User avatar
Great Britain Riotcoke
ESOC Media Team
Posts: 1217
ESO: Riotcoke
Location: Best County in the UK

14 Aug 2019, 15:52

[Armag] diarouga wrote:
Riotcoke wrote:Another problem with this is that you give civs that are weak now their good start and civs like france or germany their bad start the tables are just going to turn because civs are relatively balanced.

I would just give them a fixed food start, it's average for every civ.

Give every civ a food start, so germany 300 food 100 wood?
"STOP EATING LIKE A NOOB - GET GAMERFOOD" - Johnathan FATAL1TY Wendel

FROM IVY, OUT MIDDLE, THROUGH OUR CONNECTOR, LIKE A SPEED DEMON
User avatar
Italy gamevideo113
Howdah
Posts: 1044
ESO: gamevideo113

14 Aug 2019, 15:52

Honestly if we just match strong starts with strong starts (=equality) instead of mirrored starts for every civ (=simmetry) we can still keep variety in the early game and increase options by a significant amount.
Random shipments are an obstacle to variety imo, because let’s say you might be thinking of trying some slightly suboptimal build e.g. with Japan which could possibly work in a specific matchup but you get a coin start: slightly suboptimal build + suboptimal start = autolose, therefore you are forced to stick to the standard meta optimized build because otherwise you would have too big of a disadvantage and the suboptimal build would be too big of a gamble.

Also i don’t think discovery TP is that much better than transition TP. You simply gain a bunch of VS from receiving your first shipment slightly faster but at the same time you’re gonna have your second shipment when you hit colonial independently from the early TP or not. The thing is TPs are strong in general, not simply excessively strong in age1. Since shipments are basically power spikes during the course of the game, having these spikes earlier and more frequently is not something you should underestimate and that’s why i think every civ benefits from TPs a lot.

Just adjust crate starts based on strength and not symmetry and then maybe nerf TPs before stagecoach a bit and you have a pretty solid foundation for seeing new creative play styles. It’s not even something you’d notice very clearly if you didn’t know about it since randomness in crate spawns is still there, the only difference is that it is conditioned depending on the civ and not exactly symmetrical. I think that striving for symmetry is not the right way to balance this game because 1) civs are different and asymmetrical, therefore they necessarily need different starts 2) for reductio ad absurdum, if you wanted symmetry you would have to give 5 vills to every civ and the same crates for everyone, which is clearly far from ideal and far from what the game looks like right now.
Eat pasta, run fasta :love:
User avatar
France [Armag] diarouga
Gendarme
NWC LAN Gold
Posts: 9317
ESO: diarouga
Location: France

14 Aug 2019, 15:55

If you don't think that age 1 TP is much better than transition TP then I'm not sure what I can do to convince you, it's just a fact.
Also some civs just don't have a strong start (Russia, Port sometimes, Spain sometimes, China), how do you deal with that? It wouldn't work.
"dia abused the explorer really well I'm impressed"
Bran6new
India Shikari
Dragoon
Posts: 252
ESO: rahuru

14 Aug 2019, 15:56

Pls don't make crate start std. It seems soooo boring. Coming from a mere lt. who is primarily a RE player. it turns me off from Ep and for some other people who I play on ep with. It will also make tournaments boring. I always loved the part of adapting to crate start and treasures with them.

Though when I played China it didn't really mattered to me so I don't know but I would rather not have it. Ik am not a top player so my opinion doesn't matter but I still wanted to just state my opinion.
User avatar
France [Armag] diarouga
Gendarme
NWC LAN Gold
Posts: 9317
ESO: diarouga
Location: France

14 Aug 2019, 15:57

At least make fixed crates for tournaments lol. Balance is important there.
"dia abused the explorer really well I'm impressed"
Bran6new
User avatar
Turkey breeze
Howdah
Donator 01
Posts: 1548
ESO: Breezebrothers

14 Aug 2019, 16:09

Sargsyan wrote:fixed crates will add more variety actually. it will make certain strategies such as semi ff or ff less of a no brainer as it is now on a 200w start, opening more space for other options

can't be more agree with this, in fact 200w start forces you to go semi FF %99 time and with fixed crates, we will see more age2 or even FI strategies aswell, I hope this change will be implemented asap!
http://www.twitch.tv/lordraphael_aoe
Lordraphael wrote:if you can spare money, consider donating. Depending on the number of donations i might decide to stream more.
bwinner wrote:I was happy when breeze posted a rec where he beat me once, which means he believes I am good.
User avatar
Italy Garja
ESOC Maps Team
Donator 02
Posts: 7409
ESO: Garja

14 Aug 2019, 16:09

[Armag] diarouga wrote:
Garja wrote:1) standard age up for Spain is 16. Period. Of course 15v is good and suggested vs civs like otto but it's not by any mean mandatory. 100w is still extremely good for Spain.
2) port with 100w 100f still ages with 13v. Eco theory is the best shipment in most MUs.
3) again not with 100f 100w and in Sioux case it's probably worth to age with some idle time if it means a TP in age1.
4) ofc, but still it is good for Dutch and not a balance problem. Germans-Dutch doesnt change really with 200w in the sense that it remains Ger favoured. The problem if anything, and it's exclusive to Dutch, is that gold crate swings things quite a lot for Dutch MUs. But again in this specific MU food crate is neutral, wood crate is better for Germans and gold crate is better for Dutch so in the end it's just fine.

You don't seem to understand that this game is not meant to be 100% exactly equal in every single aspect. Fre and Germans simpy have a better age1 and that carries over with w/e starting crate, especially with the wood one. The implications of that are secondary once you understand that this is how the design of the civ is.

1) That's just not true. You can age with 15vills 75% of the time, so it's the standard, sorry.
2) No, just no. Without treasures you have to go 14 and you get iddled on top of that most of the time. Eco theory is worse than a 2 vills shipment eventhough it's stronger in the long run, so I'm not sure how you can be happy when you delay your age up and send a 1.5v shipment while some civs get a free 4cdb or 3sw+2uhlans shipment.
Also you totally ignored the ATP/water part.
3) As I said, I'm not sure about Sioux. Still, your TP is worse because you have to chop 100w before you can build it (so you get less exp from it). You get some iddle time on top of that while some civs don't, so it's definitely worse.
4) It's not really good for Dutch. In fact, coin start is probably better as it allows you to age with 14villagers and it is a balance problem. Dutch vs Germany is also a totally different MU with or without 200w, although it's still ger favoured on 100w start.
Honestly, I don't understand why you can claim that you lose games because of 50coin treasures or small lag while claiming that crate start doesn't affect the balance lol.

You know, people can be creative sometimes. Not everyone is a bot like you.

I wouldn't say that I'm objectively creative but I'm still one of the most creative players because 80% of the players are bot. Also not sure how being forced to take a TP on 200w start makes you a creative player.

1) The fact that you can age with 15 most of time doesn't make it standard. It's standard what have been since nowadays. 15v if it is squeezed too much it's not even good. And 16v market can be just as good depending on the situation. Regardless of what's the current standard, by no mean you need 15v. Most civs age at 4.35 so it's not like you have to age at 4.10 or you're at disavantage.
2) I've done market with 13v lot of times. Even if you age with 10 secs idle it is totally worth it. Treasures surely helps and you're going to take some 90% of times.
3) TP as Sioux is the standard even on RE.
4) Coin is not better as aging 14v is pointless most of times. The only reason why 100f feels better is because it is still an 80w discount on your first bank and also less efficiency for basically all other civs. No it's not a balance problem, no it's not totally different, it's only marginally better for Germans just like every other MU where you get a starting TP.

I don't claim to lose for 50g, that's bs. As for lag, even the slighest at the key moment can be game deciding. Starting crates do influence a MU etc. but it's still something you can play around.
Well don't call it creativity then, but just the fact you can/have to go for market instead of TP or something else (farm, nothing, +-1v) is something to preserve.
User avatar
France [Armag] diarouga
Gendarme
NWC LAN Gold
Posts: 9317
ESO: diarouga
Location: France

14 Aug 2019, 16:15

Garja wrote:
[Armag] diarouga wrote:
Garja wrote:1) standard age up for Spain is 16. Period. Of course 15v is good and suggested vs civs like otto but it's not by any mean mandatory. 100w is still extremely good for Spain.
2) port with 100w 100f still ages with 13v. Eco theory is the best shipment in most MUs.
3) again not with 100f 100w and in Sioux case it's probably worth to age with some idle time if it means a TP in age1.
4) ofc, but still it is good for Dutch and not a balance problem. Germans-Dutch doesnt change really with 200w in the sense that it remains Ger favoured. The problem if anything, and it's exclusive to Dutch, is that gold crate swings things quite a lot for Dutch MUs. But again in this specific MU food crate is neutral, wood crate is better for Germans and gold crate is better for Dutch so in the end it's just fine.

You don't seem to understand that this game is not meant to be 100% exactly equal in every single aspect. Fre and Germans simpy have a better age1 and that carries over with w/e starting crate, especially with the wood one. The implications of that are secondary once you understand that this is how the design of the civ is.

1) That's just not true. You can age with 15vills 75% of the time, so it's the standard, sorry.
2) No, just no. Without treasures you have to go 14 and you get iddled on top of that most of the time. Eco theory is worse than a 2 vills shipment eventhough it's stronger in the long run, so I'm not sure how you can be happy when you delay your age up and send a 1.5v shipment while some civs get a free 4cdb or 3sw+2uhlans shipment.
Also you totally ignored the ATP/water part.
3) As I said, I'm not sure about Sioux. Still, your TP is worse because you have to chop 100w before you can build it (so you get less exp from it). You get some iddle time on top of that while some civs don't, so it's definitely worse.
4) It's not really good for Dutch. In fact, coin start is probably better as it allows you to age with 14villagers and it is a balance problem. Dutch vs Germany is also a totally different MU with or without 200w, although it's still ger favoured on 100w start.
Honestly, I don't understand why you can claim that you lose games because of 50coin treasures or small lag while claiming that crate start doesn't affect the balance lol.

You know, people can be creative sometimes. Not everyone is a bot like you.

I wouldn't say that I'm objectively creative but I'm still one of the most creative players because 80% of the players are bot. Also not sure how being forced to take a TP on 200w start makes you a creative player.

1) The fact that you can age with 15 most of time doesn't make it standard. It's standard what have been since nowadays. 15v if it is squeezed too much it's not even good. And 16v market can be just as good depending on the situation. Regardless of what's the current standard, by no mean you need 15v. Most civs age at 4.35 so it's not like you have to age at 4.10 or you're at disavantage.
2) I've done market with 13v lot of times. Even if you age with 10 secs idle it is totally worth it. Treasures surely helps and you're going to take some 90% of times.
3) TP as Sioux is the standard even on RE.
4) Coin is not better as aging 14v is pointless most of times. The only reason why 100f feels better is because it is still an 80w discount on your first bank and also less efficiency for basically all other civs. No it's not a balance problem, no it's not totally different, it's only marginally better for Germans just like every other MU where you get a starting TP.

I don't claim to lose for 50g, that's bs. As for lag, even the slighest at the key moment can be game deciding. Starting crates do influence a MU etc. but it's still something you can play around.
Well don't call it creativity then, but just the fact you can/have to go for market instead of TP or something else (farm, nothing, +-1v) is something to preserve.

1) Okay, let's say it's not "standard" and call it the "best way" to play instead. You age earlier, thus you can attack your opponent earlier. Most civs age at 4:35 indeed, that doesn't mean that aging 4:10 is worse, in fact it's better. Imagine if Dutch had to age at 4:35, they'd be awful, that's the same with Spain.
2) You can do 13v an market with 10sec idle time yes. Then you have a market instead of a TP, so you're at a disadvantage.
4) Aging with 14v means you're going to get your banks earlier thus you'll get away with greedier BO. It's just much better.
Honestly, I'm not sure why we're discussing that if you don't admit that getting a wood start as Germany vs Dutch is a huge advantage. You just don't get the issue.
"dia abused the explorer really well I'm impressed"
Bran6new
User avatar
Italy Garja
ESOC Maps Team
Donator 02
Posts: 7409
ESO: Garja

14 Aug 2019, 16:35

[Armag] diarouga wrote:
Garja wrote:
Show hidden quotes

1) The fact that you can age with 15 most of time doesn't make it standard. It's standard what have been since nowadays. 15v if it is squeezed too much it's not even good. And 16v market can be just as good depending on the situation. Regardless of what's the current standard, by no mean you need 15v. Most civs age at 4.35 so it's not like you have to age at 4.10 or you're at disavantage.
2) I've done market with 13v lot of times. Even if you age with 10 secs idle it is totally worth it. Treasures surely helps and you're going to take some 90% of times.
3) TP as Sioux is the standard even on RE.
4) Coin is not better as aging 14v is pointless most of times. The only reason why 100f feels better is because it is still an 80w discount on your first bank and also less efficiency for basically all other civs. No it's not a balance problem, no it's not totally different, it's only marginally better for Germans just like every other MU where you get a starting TP.

I don't claim to lose for 50g, that's bs. As for lag, even the slighest at the key moment can be game deciding. Starting crates do influence a MU etc. but it's still something you can play around.
Well don't call it creativity then, but just the fact you can/have to go for market instead of TP or something else (farm, nothing, +-1v) is something to preserve.

1) Okay, let's say it's not "standard" and call it the "best way" to play instead. You age earlier, thus you can attack your opponent earlier. Most civs age at 4:35 indeed, that doesn't mean that aging 4:10 is worse, in fact it's better. Imagine if Dutch had to age at 4:35, they'd be awful, that's the same with Spain.
2) You can do 13v an market with 10sec idle time yes. Then you have a market instead of a TP, so you're at a disadvantage.
4) Aging with 14v means you're going to get your banks earlier thus you'll get away with greedier BO. It's just much better.
Honestly, I'm not sure why we're discussing that if you don't admit that getting a wood start as Germany vs Dutch is a huge advantage. You just don't get the issue.

1) With Dutch it would be awful because the civ needs to age at 4.10 since it's a slow civ (or if not slow the eco will be utter crap). In fact 4.10 is the standard for Dutch. If anything, compare Spain to Brits which has always been played with 17v age up and was still fine.
2) I meant TP, it was a lapsus. TP 13v with 100f 100w is possible.
4) With 14v as Dutch your bank(s) won't really come earlier because food is the cap, not wood. With 1 less vill you simply gather less food so first bank and also following ones will be delayed just like if you aged with 15. On top of that you will probably have some idle TC time when you hit colonial because not enough gold to queue vill. The only instances where you want to age with 14v is if you got so much gold from treasures that you have a surplus of resources and that doesn't comproimse the efficiency of your build so it's going to only be a net profit overall. Also if the plan is to go bank wagon + military building 14v is almost useless as you still have to wait a bit to queue unit or will get an incomplete batch.
Great Britain I_HaRRiiSoN_I
Skirmisher
Posts: 161
Location: United Kingdom

14 Aug 2019, 16:49

I gave this a quick thought, does the favourite in the match up between Jap vs Dutch depend on whether it was a coin start or not?
User avatar
France [Armag] diarouga
Gendarme
NWC LAN Gold
Posts: 9317
ESO: diarouga
Location: France

14 Aug 2019, 17:08

I_HaRRiiSoN_I wrote:I gave this a quick thought, does the favourite in the match up between Jap vs Dutch depend on whether it was a coin start or not?

Yea probably. I don't really see jap winning on a coin start, on a wood start it's possible I guess.
"dia abused the explorer really well I'm impressed"
Bran6new
User avatar
France [Armag] diarouga
Gendarme
NWC LAN Gold
Posts: 9317
ESO: diarouga
Location: France

14 Aug 2019, 17:12

Garja wrote:
[Armag] diarouga wrote:
Show hidden quotes

1) Okay, let's say it's not "standard" and call it the "best way" to play instead. You age earlier, thus you can attack your opponent earlier. Most civs age at 4:35 indeed, that doesn't mean that aging 4:10 is worse, in fact it's better. Imagine if Dutch had to age at 4:35, they'd be awful, that's the same with Spain.
2) You can do 13v an market with 10sec idle time yes. Then you have a market instead of a TP, so you're at a disadvantage.
4) Aging with 14v means you're going to get your banks earlier thus you'll get away with greedier BO. It's just much better.
Honestly, I'm not sure why we're discussing that if you don't admit that getting a wood start as Germany vs Dutch is a huge advantage. You just don't get the issue.

1) With Dutch it would be awful because the civ needs to age at 4.10 since it's a slow civ (or if not slow the eco will be utter crap). In fact 4.10 is the standard for Dutch. If anything, compare Spain to Brits which has always been played with 17v age up and was still fine.
2) I meant TP, it was a lapsus. TP 13v with 100f 100w is possible.
4) With 14v as Dutch your bank(s) won't really come earlier because food is the cap, not wood. With 1 less vill you simply gather less food so first bank and also following ones will be delayed just like if you aged with 15. On top of that you will probably have some idle TC time when you hit colonial because not enough gold to queue vill. The only instances where you want to age with 14v is if you got so much gold from treasures that you have a surplus of resources and that doesn't comproimse the efficiency of your build so it's going to only be a net profit overall. Also if the plan is to go bank wagon + military building 14v is almost useless as you still have to wait a bit to queue unit or will get an incomplete batch.

1) 17v with brit is way worse than 16v, not close.
2) Nah, it's not possible without treasures.
4) When you age with 14v, you start building your bank when you age, ie 20 sec earlier. Also you get your bank wagon earlier if you want to do so, and you have 25 extra sec before your opponent's timing so you can get away with one extra bank.
With coin start you don't need to gather coin in age 1 so not sure why you're saying that you need coin treasures...
"dia abused the explorer really well I'm impressed"
Bran6new
User avatar
United States of America IAmSoldieR
Howdah
Donator 03
Posts: 1726
ESO: SoldieR
Location: Chi City

14 Aug 2019, 19:17

[Armag] diarouga wrote:You go market with a coin start lol.
Also please stop pretending that you have to think about your BO because of random crates lol.

On 200f 100w 100g you make a market? Mm you must not play ger.
User avatar
Spain yoqpasa
Lancer
Posts: 570
ESO: yoqpasa

14 Aug 2019, 19:35

IAmSoldieR wrote:
[Armag] diarouga wrote:You go market with a coin start lol.
Also please stop pretending that you have to think about your BO because of random crates lol.

On 200f 100w 100g you make a market? Mm you must not play ger.


If France does why not?
Image

Image
Australia Peachrocks
Skirmisher
Posts: 150
ESO: Peachrocks

14 Aug 2019, 19:37

yoqpasa wrote:
IAmSoldieR wrote:
[Armag] diarouga wrote:You go market with a coin start lol.
Also please stop pretending that you have to think about your BO because of random crates lol.

On 200f 100w 100g you make a market? Mm you must not play ger.


If France does why not?


Because France doesn't get extra Uhlans with every shipment. XP is way more important to Germany it wants that trade post.
User avatar
Armenia Sargsyan
Jaeger
Donator 01
Posts: 2012
ESO: Sargsyan
Location: Armenia
GameRanger ID: 2106182

14 Aug 2019, 19:40

not going market with 100g feels bad unless you wanna age really fast
User avatar
Italy Garja
ESOC Maps Team
Donator 02
Posts: 7409
ESO: Garja

14 Aug 2019, 19:47

[Armag] diarouga wrote:
Garja wrote:
Show hidden quotes

1) With Dutch it would be awful because the civ needs to age at 4.10 since it's a slow civ (or if not slow the eco will be utter crap). In fact 4.10 is the standard for Dutch. If anything, compare Spain to Brits which has always been played with 17v age up and was still fine.
2) I meant TP, it was a lapsus. TP 13v with 100f 100w is possible.
4) With 14v as Dutch your bank(s) won't really come earlier because food is the cap, not wood. With 1 less vill you simply gather less food so first bank and also following ones will be delayed just like if you aged with 15. On top of that you will probably have some idle TC time when you hit colonial because not enough gold to queue vill. The only instances where you want to age with 14v is if you got so much gold from treasures that you have a surplus of resources and that doesn't comproimse the efficiency of your build so it's going to only be a net profit overall. Also if the plan is to go bank wagon + military building 14v is almost useless as you still have to wait a bit to queue unit or will get an incomplete batch.

1) 17v with brit is way worse than 16v, not close.
2) Nah, it's not possible without treasures.
4) When you age with 14v, you start building your bank when you age, ie 20 sec earlier. Also you get your bank wagon earlier if you want to do so, and you have 25 extra sec before your opponent's timing so you can get away with one extra bank.
With coin start you don't need to gather coin in age 1 so not sure why you're saying that you need coin treasures...

1) ofc it is worse I'm not saying otherwise. But Often with 16v you have to idle a bit and in past people preferred to go 17v no idle. And it was still totally fine since 4.35 is fine for Brits. In fact it is still totally fine now.
2) it is possible even on RE. Actually more possible on RE probably because of the food curve on EP (after the 6th vill produced you're still 10f short compared to RE).
4) when you age with 15v you start building it about 20+ seconds before aging. In fact you often have it up once you aged. So the time doesn't change and, if anything, it's gonna be late with 14v because you clearly have one less vill. The bank is what determines the 1st shipment. If the bank is not up you can't send first shipments. This is another reason on top on the previous mentioned.
Your math is simply wrong here. Also this is all well known stuff among Dutch players.
User avatar
Italy Garja
ESOC Maps Team
Donator 02
Posts: 7409
ESO: Garja

14 Aug 2019, 19:49

yoqpasa wrote:
IAmSoldieR wrote:
[Armag] diarouga wrote:You go market with a coin start lol.
Also please stop pretending that you have to think about your BO because of random crates lol.

On 200f 100w 100g you make a market? Mm you must not play ger.


If France does why not?

Because Germans don't have extra 50f (60f on RE) from the 3rd food crate (the base one), nor they are pop efficient so need to drop the house quickier hence more vills on wood and idle TC time while doing that.
You can still market with 200f 100g but it sux most of times.
User avatar
New Zealand zoom
EP Project Lead
Posts: 8506
ESO: Funnu
Location: New_Sweland

14 Aug 2019, 20:04

An alternative is to float Chinese crates, remove the coin crate start (or replace it with an experience crate start), then balance Discovery TPs. Coin is pretty dumb, anyway, since it's perfectly useful to Dutch, half useful to some civilizations, and practically useless to the rest. That's the real outlier, here.
Effective ESOC Patch notes

"♪You can't trust anyone, because you're untrustable. How can you trust someone you know can't trust you?♫"
User avatar
Italy Garja
ESOC Maps Team
Donator 02
Posts: 7409
ESO: Garja

14 Aug 2019, 20:33

Coin is mostly the same for all civs. Even asian civs can market with it even tho the net benefit in age1 in terms of resources is basically zero. It's mostly because then you have it up for later which can smoothen up the build somehow.
Chinese crates should be random just like for every other civ. There is no reason whatsoever for China to always start with an extra 100w while other civs have the random crate instead.
User avatar
Italy Garja
ESOC Maps Team
Donator 02
Posts: 7409
ESO: Garja

14 Aug 2019, 21:56

[Armag] diarouga wrote:China with random crate instead of the wood crate would be unplayable on food and coin start (in 2016-2017, before people started to take a TP, it was considered as one of the worst civs, and here it would be 2016 China with -1v basically).

What are you on about. In 2015 and before China was considered one of the best civs and in fact was always present in ESOC tourneys. TP is just an improvement over what was already good.

umeu wrote:China is the perfect example why all civs should have fixed crates.
Imagine china on 100c start haha, you can just type gg and go afk.

Ye imagine China with 100g gold crate. Fair for every other civ.

umeu wrote:nah its not. the fact you say that just shows you know nothing about china. if you give china random crates, that's fine, but then you need to add another food or wood crate to their base crates. but really it's just whining about nothing.

Not really.
100f 100w --> better than current one.
100f 100g --> same as current one, can't TP but can market with extra 100f.
100f --> slightly worse than current one, can't TP, can't 2nd village. You just send 2v and age up sooner.
100w --> same as current one.
100g --> worse than current one, you just market or age up without doing nothing.

Meanwhile your start follows the same rule every other civ follows.

I don't know why China is supposed to always have the best freaking crate...
User avatar
United States of America IAmSoldieR
Howdah
Donator 03
Posts: 1726
ESO: SoldieR
Location: Chi City

14 Aug 2019, 22:52

yoqpasa wrote:
IAmSoldieR wrote:
[Armag] diarouga wrote:You go market with a coin start lol.
Also please stop pretending that you have to think about your BO because of random crates lol.

On 200f 100w 100g you make a market? Mm you must not play ger.


If France does why not?

Cause then you age 18 vil or have idle time and potentially idle tc/shipment time cause you havent dropped the house yet. After years of experience I find it really really bad to go market on 200f 100w 100g, unless of course you have a significant treasure like 70+ w/f/g within tc LOS or very close by. (You want the market asap to get HD in, so you cant wait a long time to see if you find good tres).
No Flag umeu
Gendarme
Posts: 9873

15 Aug 2019, 00:20

Garja wrote:
[Armag] diarouga wrote:China with random crate instead of the wood crate would be unplayable on food and coin start (in 2016-2017, before people started to take a TP, it was considered as one of the worst civs, and here it would be 2016 China with -1v basically).

What are you on about. In 2015 and before China was considered one of the best civs and in fact was always present in ESOC tourneys. TP is just an improvement over what was already good.

umeu wrote:China is the perfect example why all civs should have fixed crates.
Imagine china on 100c start haha, you can just type gg and go afk.

Ye imagine China with 100g gold crate. Fair for every other civ.

umeu wrote:nah its not. the fact you say that just shows you know nothing about china. if you give china random crates, that's fine, but then you need to add another food or wood crate to their base crates. but really it's just whining about nothing.

Not really.
100f 100w --> better than current one.
100f 100g --> same as current one, can't TP but can market with extra 100f.
100f --> slightly worse than current one, can't TP, can't 2nd village. You just send 2v and age up sooner.
100w --> same as current one.
100g --> worse than current one, you just market or age up without doing nothing.

Meanwhile your start follows the same rule every other civ follows.

I don't know why China is supposed to always have the best freaking crate...


For every civ except china. Youre honestly making a vulcano out of a dustspeck. So typical.

100w100f is better. 100w is same. The rest isjust way worse. Youre so clueless. China 2v without tp is so bad. You get your shipments late and you will get shit uponin early age2 cuz u have to popcap to do anything. If you make tp, village gets rushed and gg, cant defend cuz no shipments. If you make village, it's also gg cuz can't defend cuz no shipments. Lol
User avatar
Italy Garja
ESOC Maps Team
Donator 02
Posts: 7409
ESO: Garja

15 Aug 2019, 00:49

I am not even making it a big deal, you guys are with fixed crates and shit. It's pretty obvious that the only civ that actually deserves a crate change is China.
As for 100g starts just play colonial I guess?
No Flag umeu
Gendarme
Posts: 9873

15 Aug 2019, 00:53

Garja wrote:I am not even making it a big deal, you guys are with fixed crates and shit. It's pretty obvious that the only civ that actually deserves a crate change is China.
As for 100g starts just play colonial I guess?


:uglylol:

gl playing age2 with 1 village. couldn't even make a single unit cuz you're either popped, or you don't have a barracks lol.

this just shows how much bs you're talking. sure, you can make china's crates "fair". And then you have to change 10 other things just to buff them for that one "fair" change haha. OP idea. I'm 100% convinced you're full of shit. And I'm 100% right. byeee

Forum Info

Return to “General”



Who is online

Users browsing this forum: KoenigRother and 4 guests