Should Ottoman be able to train spahi?

[pecelot]

you could probably justify that by having potential spahi working their way out of factories to then be promoted to horsemen

[almalek]

[quote="pecelot"]that make no sense..[/quoadd
add their cost of training them or ?

[almalek]

that make no sense..[/quoadd
add their cost of training them or ?

or yes

[pecelot]

nah, it's not gonna work..

[Amsel_]

This is probably beyond the scope of ESOC Patch, but what about an age4 shipment or tech at the capitol that allows you to train Spahi?

[iCourt]

A infinite shipment probably wouldn't be a bad idea.

However, seems to not really be needed currently. Neither fixes or helps ottoman since Spahi are really only useful as a shock troop early game. This feels like adding patch notes to add patch notes.

[zoom]

This is probably beyond the scope of ESOC Patch, but what about an age4 shipment or tech at the capitol that allows you to train Spahi?

"Powerful cavalry available only from the Home City." —In-game description

For a change: What iCourt says!

[deleted_user0]

Should change it into: "Oh, you mismacroed? You going to regret it soon! .

[Garja]

A infinite shipment probably wouldn't be a bad idea.

However, seems to not really be needed currently. Neither fixes or helps ottoman since Spahi are really only useful as a shock troop early game. This feels like adding patch notes to add patch notes.

Meanwhile we are testing 300 useless China changes 10 times more fancy and more impactful.

[[Armag] diarouga]

Yea lol.

[pecelot]

China needs changes

[iCourt]

Meanwhile we are testing 300 useless China changes 10 times more fancy and more impactful.

Not arguing with you there.

[[Armag] diarouga]

China needs changes

No, it's one of the best designed civs.

[I_HaRRiiSoN_I]

If you could train them from the fortress age, could you even implement guard and imperial upgrades for the Spahis after removing the free shadow-tech upgrades. Training units which auto-upgrade to guard/imperial would be absurd. Also it would very clunky having 2 heavy cav available in the stables to train considering that the ottoman hussars has royal-guard upgrades to start off with.

[Kawapasaka]

China needs changes

No, it's one of the best designed civs.

TAD civ design is quite polarising in general. It really shows how much the #1 priority was simply selling more copies of the game, as a result people either think they're really cool or really lame.

[jesus3]

Looks like the classic "somebody had an idea, didn't reflect upon it first and after being told about its flaws decided to continue defending it fanatically for the sake being able to play the victim afterwards"

ez for me doing the classic "edgy comment after the original discussion was already over but possibly tilting the OP writer, resulting in personal attacks afterwards"

frickin ez

[aqwer]

It is very frustrating that Ottoman can't train their special unit "spahi" but all other civs can e.g. dog soldier for Sioux, cuir for French, mahot lancer for India and urumi infinite shipment, skull knight for Aztec.
It would make their late game a bit fun which is so bad right now.
Comments plz.

P.S. ofc you can remove auto upgrade, heal abilities and adjust the cost by stats.

I don't think so, they're so good because you can't train them

If they are so good why not we see them in every Otto game? They are used to beat some colonial mass and that's it.

[aqwer]

If you could train them from the fortress age, could you even implement guard and imperial upgrades for the Spahis after removing the free shadow-tech upgrades. Training units which auto-upgrade to guard/imperial would be absurd. Also it would very clunky having 2 heavy cav available in the stables to train considering that the ottoman hussars has royal-guard upgrades to start off with.

Ofc shadow tech and auto heal should be removed if they are trainable. BTW Otto huss are not that good, they are inferior to French, Spanish, Brit huss in late game and in colonial bcz no colonial cards for them.

[Hazza54321]

Otto doesnt really want to train cavalry as their infantry units are pretty good in comparison. Spahis trained will add even more to the otto cheesyness which is something you dont want. An infinite spahi shipment would be cool though. The only time you see them is the 5 spahi in age 3 sometimes and even then its quite rare. 20%rr would be good and an infinite 4 spahi in age 4 for 1000f (yes 5 is for 1000f and its a fortress shipment , however its an infinite shipment as well as being guard spahi)

[aqwer]

Otto doesnt really want to train cavalry as their infantry units are pretty good in comparison. Spahis trained will add even more to the otto cheesyness which is something you dont want. An infinite spahi shipment would be cool though. The only time you see them is the 5 spahi in age 3 sometimes and even then its quite rare. 20%rr would be good and an infinite 4 spahi in age 4 for 1000f (yes 5 is for 1000f and its a fortress shipment , however its an infinite shipment as well as being guard spahi)

Otto definitely needs some good hand cav in late game that its lacking given the poor state of Otto huss. Plus it would be a little bit fun to play late game with Otto bcz it is really bad right now ( no goons, not good eco, slow inf compositions that take ages in team games to move around the map)

[duckzilla]

I still think that the Ottoman lategame should be characterized by 1. a weak economy, 2. expensive units (both in pop and res), and 3. strong units.

The abus gun and the general tendency to gunpowder units (artillery upgrades) fits well into the scheme. An expensive Spahi unit (e.g. 3 pop/400f) would fit, too.

[Garja]

Otto doesnt really want to train cavalry as their infantry units are pretty good in comparison. Spahis trained will add even more to the otto cheesyness which is something you dont want. An infinite spahi shipment would be cool though. The only time you see them is the 5 spahi in age 3 sometimes and even then its quite rare. 20%rr would be good and an infinite 4 spahi in age 4 for 1000f (yes 5 is for 1000f and its a fortress shipment , however its an infinite shipment as well as being guard spahi)

Otto definitely needs some good hand cav in late game that its lacking given the poor state of Otto huss. Plus it would be a little bit fun to play late game with Otto bcz it is really bad right now ( no goons, not good eco, slow inf compositions that take ages in team games to move around the map)

Otto huss is one of the best?

[gamevideo113]

China needs changes

No, it's one of the best designed civs.

How can you argue that when half of the civ's units are borderline unviable and the civ does bot ff in 70-80% of its games if you exclude aizamk playing? Sure, the civ sometimes isn't as straight forward as other civs, but it clearly could offer so much more with the right tweaks. I can understand the argument that you like AoE3 the way it is and by changing a lot of stuff we might end up with basically a new game, and that's a thing, but i really don't think china is a masterpiece of civ design to be honest. Just think about the fact that making china crates float would make the civ suck, according to basically everyone but garja.

[gamevideo113]

Otto doesnt really want to train cavalry as their infantry units are pretty good in comparison. Spahis trained will add even more to the otto cheesyness which is something you dont want. An infinite spahi shipment would be cool though. The only time you see them is the 5 spahi in age 3 sometimes and even then its quite rare. 20%rr would be good and an infinite 4 spahi in age 4 for 1000f (yes 5 is for 1000f and its a fortress shipment , however its an infinite shipment as well as being guard spahi)

Otto definitely needs some good hand cav in late game that its lacking given the poor state of Otto huss. Plus it would be a little bit fun to play late game with Otto bcz it is really bad right now ( no goons, not good eco, slow inf compositions that take ages in team games to move around the map)

Otto huss is one of the best?

Well, technically it's just average/below-average
Brits have royal guard and 3 cards (40% boost)
Spain and france have 3 cards (30% boost)
Otto has 1 card and royal guard (25% boost)
Ports and dutch have 1 card only (15% boost)
I think that having the royal guard is definitely a plus for otto since you can save a few shipments, so i would consider it on par with spain and france. Otto hussars are good enough to fill their role in the lategame, the thing is that otto gets very rarely to the point where they can sustain hussar spam, but that's intrinsecally embedded to the civ and it isn't necessarily a negative thing, since they have a different playstyle.
Anyway otto is good in the lategame, with or without hussars (honestly they can do well both ways). Giving them an infinite spahi shipment would be more of an eye candy/fun feature (which i'm not against) than an actual necessary balance change.

[Garja]

Well most of times you dont send all 3 cards or even have them in deck. They still have the arsenal up like other cav.
Anyway I'm ok with infinite spahi card. Straight up training spahi might be too much since they're such a strong unit if you don't expect them. With cards you know they will be there at intervals, but from stable you really can't tell when. Also their cost is supposed to be 400f which in industrial on a regular basis sounds too good.