Australia Kawapasaka
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18 Aug 2019, 08:53

In preparation for the buff, I've been trying some Grenadier strats, with varying degrees of success. One annoying thing I've noticed is sometimes their attacks simply disappear. As in, their throwing animation completes fully but no grenade appears or connects.
So all I'm asking is: a) Is there are a reason for this? Like their target getting killed before they fire or something and b) Is this considered a bug/something that could be patched? It really makes a huge difference in fights when an entire grenade volley vanishes into thin air.
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Netherlands edeholland
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18 Aug 2019, 08:59

I think happens when the targeted unit dies before the animation is complete. I think it would make more sense if the unit would just throw the grenade on the ground for the splash damage.
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Great Britain Hazza54321
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18 Aug 2019, 09:03

More sense to take the pin and not throw it imo
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Italy gamevideo113
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18 Aug 2019, 10:14

This applies to every unit with a windup animation: longbows, arrow knights, cav archers, aenna, etc. I don't think it would be fair to fix this just for grenadiers. After all grenadier micro has always involved splitting grenadier fire to different alive targets for every volley, so i think basically everyone has already gotten used to it.
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Netherlands Goodspeed
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18 Aug 2019, 10:27

gamevideo113 wrote:This applies to every unit with a windup animation: longbows, arrow knights, cav archers, aenna, etc. I don't think it would be fair to fix this just for grenadiers. After all grenadier micro has always involved splitting grenadier fire to different alive targets for every volley, so i think basically everyone has already gotten used to it.
It doesn't make sense for an attack to disappear in mid-air. Since for other, single target ranged fire it isn't relevant it has never been an issue, but it should absolutely be patched for units with splash damage.

Iirc this doesn't happen with artillery?
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Czech Republic EAGLEMUT
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18 Aug 2019, 11:46

It does. This is how all units work, unless their animation is instant.
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Australia Kawapasaka
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18 Aug 2019, 12:15

gamevideo113 wrote:This applies to every unit with a windup animation: longbows, arrow knights, cav archers, aenna, etc. I don't think it would be fair to fix this just for grenadiers. After all grenadier micro has always involved splitting grenadier fire to different alive targets for every volley, so i think basically everyone has already gotten used to it.


Fair enough. Guess it's harder to notice with archers because arrows don't go boom on impact.
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Netherlands Goodspeed
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18 Aug 2019, 12:26

EAGLEMUT wrote:It does. This is how all units work, unless their animation is instant.
Ah. Well that should be patched too, then!
(Is it even possible?)
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Malta Aizamk
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18 Aug 2019, 12:30

idk I think delete micro could become a thing
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United States of America n0el
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18 Aug 2019, 12:34

edeholland wrote:I think happens when the targeted unit dies before the animation is complete. I think it would make more sense if the unit would just throw the grenade on the ground for the splash damage.

One of the big mistakes the developers made, imo, was this not being true, and also not being able to force area attack a location with area damage units.
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Italy gamevideo113
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18 Aug 2019, 12:50

Goodspeed wrote:
gamevideo113 wrote:This applies to every unit with a windup animation: longbows, arrow knights, cav archers, aenna, etc. I don't think it would be fair to fix this just for grenadiers. After all grenadier micro has always involved splitting grenadier fire to different alive targets for every volley, so i think basically everyone has already gotten used to it.
It doesn't make sense for an attack to disappear in mid-air. Since for other, single target ranged fire it isn't relevant it has never been an issue, but it should absolutely be patched for units with splash damage.

Iirc this doesn't happen with artillery?

It only happens with organ guns
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Italy gamevideo113
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18 Aug 2019, 12:57

Actually on the note of grenadiers i think that the new "buff" comes with a significant drawback. Since grens aren't heavy infantry anymore, they are a lot more vulnerable to TAD-like cav that has bonus vs ranged infantry only. Perhaps with this new change a musk-gren combo from brits in age 3 could be somewhat decent against india/japan mass infantry (also because incendiary grenades and socket bayonet are now cheaper), but i fear that grenadiers will be a lot more vulnerable to cav.
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Canada dansil92
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18 Aug 2019, 13:17

gamevideo113 wrote:Actually on the note of grenadiers i think that the new "buff" comes with a significant drawback. Since grens aren't heavy infantry anymore, they are a lot more vulnerable to TAD-like cav that has bonus vs ranged infantry only. Perhaps with this new change a musk-gren combo from brits in age 3 could be somewhat decent against india/japan mass infantry (also because incendiary grenades and socket bayonet are now cheaper), but i fear that grenadiers will be a lot more vulnerable to cav.


This is an improvement though, since they will resist skirm/urumi fire...?
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18 Aug 2019, 13:30

dansil92 wrote:
gamevideo113 wrote:Actually on the note of grenadiers i think that the new "buff" comes with a significant drawback. Since grens aren't heavy infantry anymore, they are a lot more vulnerable to TAD-like cav that has bonus vs ranged infantry only. Perhaps with this new change a musk-gren combo from brits in age 3 could be somewhat decent against india/japan mass infantry (also because incendiary grenades and socket bayonet are now cheaper), but i fear that grenadiers will be a lot more vulnerable to cav.


This is an improvement though, since they will resist skirm/urumi fire...?

Well yes i think it is an overall improvement, but also a bit of a trade-off at the same time. We'll see how it plays out, eventually.
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Canada dansil92
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18 Aug 2019, 13:44

Grens now make a solid counter to yumi masses, urumi-sepoy and strel musk

Should be really cool to see in action especially for brits. With musk intervention nerfed maybe france consulate grens could see some use, hard to say. They'd be great mixed into the death ball
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18 Aug 2019, 14:43

Isnt there a thing with grends as well that sometimes when a target unit gets out of range they cancel their animation, but i have seen grenades chasing units tat are running away that are out of range. How does that work?
Australia Kawapasaka
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18 Aug 2019, 14:52

dansil92 wrote:Grens now make a solid counter to yumi masses, urumi-sepoy and strel musk

Should be really cool to see in action especially for brits. With musk intervention nerfed maybe france consulate grens could see some use, hard to say. They'd be great mixed into the death ball


I wonder how they'd fare as anti-Sepoy, given how Brits struggle vs stronger heavy inf. Their synergy with the musk upgrade cards is really, really nice. On the other hand, Indian cav will now do much more damage to them.
Cannons may still be the better answer as they deal with Gurkha much more easily, but Grens can't get memefired at least.
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France Kaiserklein
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18 Aug 2019, 15:28

It happens either when the target dies or when it goes out of LOS. It's the same for all units, but most of them have an almost instant animation so we don't see it happening.
For example, if your infantry shoots at a vil and that vil is garrisoned in tc last second, you lose your entire volley. If a unit dies and your organ guns were focusing it, they also waste their animation and end up just not shooting. It's also obvious with longbows, they just aim for like a second and then end up not shooting if the unit disappears.

The problem with grenadiers is that they have a mediocre range/LOS, an average speed, and a horribly long animation. So it's very common for them to start throwing their grenade and then end up not actually throwing it because the opponent's units run away. And that's why this unit will pretty much always be garbage, the animation is just too shit.

The only way to try and counter that is to select one of your grenadiers and have it walk forward without shooting, while the rest of them do their animation. That way the one grenadier will get line of sight while walking, and the other grenadiers will be able to complete their animation and throw their grenades. This also works when you locked fire and want to get one last volley with your units and opponent is running away, just pull one unit forward to get the LOS you need for that last shot.
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France Kaiserklein
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18 Aug 2019, 15:32

helln00 wrote:Isnt there a thing with grends as well that sometimes when a target unit gets out of range they cancel their animation, but i have seen grenades chasing units tat are running away that are out of range. How does that work?

Once the grenade is up in the air, it will always go and explode, even out of LOS. It's cancelled only if the grenadier didn't finish the animation when the enemy unit goes out of LOS.
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Netherlands Goodspeed
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18 Aug 2019, 15:34

Getting mixed signals here... Do or don't attacks disappear in mid-air? That was the claim of the OP no?
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Czech Republic EAGLEMUT
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18 Aug 2019, 15:38

It's not really mid-air, guess I should've corrected you on that but I didn't take it literally. The behavior is as Kaiser describes.
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Netherlands Goodspeed
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18 Aug 2019, 15:42

Right that's how I remember it. That's fine then imo
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Canada dansil92
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18 Aug 2019, 16:32

Grens will track once they are actually thrown, even goons can't get away from grenades. The trouble is what kaiser put really well, i call it "flinching" where the animation cancels.

Grens can be microed like kaisers longbow micro video where you select a new target while the grenades are in the air, except you attack move instead of focus fire, they can be pretty powerful if they are actually throwing.

On another note @Kawapasaka i use gren musk vs india pretty frequently anyways on RE to hold vs sepoy masses, the 3 gren upgrade cards in colonial alone can make them very powerful and 2 of them are standard musk up cards so the synergy is very good woth the two units. With the HI tag gone they should be pretty powerful vs aztec now too
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Australia Kawapasaka
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18 Aug 2019, 16:40

dansil92 wrote:
On another note @Kawapasaka i use gren musk vs india pretty frequently anyways on RE to hold vs sepoy masses


Yes, sadly I think India players on EP have gained some degree of sentience and also know how to make Gurkha :cry:
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18 Aug 2019, 16:45

Kawapasaka wrote:
dansil92 wrote:
On another note @Kawapasaka i use gren musk vs india pretty frequently anyways on RE to hold vs sepoy masses


Yes, sadly I think India players on EP have gained some degree of sentience and also know how to make Gurkha :cry:


To be fair, sepoy are nerfed on ep

(Yeah I've seen much debate between sepoy sowar vs gurkha zamb but honestly i think sepoy gurkha is best combo)
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