Let's talk underrated units!

[ShinkuroYukinari]

Heyo again!
We often talk about the Jans, the Cuirassiers and the Jaegers, and I wanna switch it up a bit.
Let's talk about units which you think are underrated and you think that should be used more!
Imma name 2 examples:

1. Keshik! the unit seems frail at first glance but it has 1.5 ROF which leads to it having higher effective damage compared to normal Dragoons. I personally think that Ming Army with Old Han reforms,Mongolian Scourge, Western Reforms and potentially Manchu Combat can even beat back the dreaded Cuirassier spam effectively! Note that 3 of those shipments are fairly standard for China, so you aren't even shafted into wonky decks.
2. Basically anything from France that isn't a Cuirassier or Skirmisher. The civ is loaded with generic upgrade shipments, including a +25/20% damage to its artillery, WOOHOO! Seriously, no one expects the punch French Dragoons especially can deliver, and I've won a surprising lot of team games as the guy who fills for his teammates.

What units do you think are underrated?

[gamevideo113]

Generally speaking underrated units are underrated for a reason so obviously the units i'm gonna mention aren't great, but i think these units get bashed on a bit more than they actually deserve, and once carded and upgraded can shine even more than other more standard units.

Kanya, since iro has good wood upgrades they can become quite cheap compared to an hussar, and their multiplier vs artillery is pretty nice.

Iron flails and imperial army, imo it's china best option in the late game if you exclude old han, because arquebusiers melt through lightcav and heavy infantry and iron flails melt through ranged infantry. You're only missing anticav which hopefully will be made by a teammate.

Camels, i think people underestimate their 7.5 speed. Still, they are quite fragile.

Euro cav archers, not the best ranged cav but also not bad, since they are also cheaper than goons.

Mantlets, they can tank so much damage that sometimes they let you win fights even when you're outnumbered.

War dogs, especially if you are one age ahead of your opponent. They are seriously strong. I guess they aren't underrated but you definitely don't see enough of them in most games.

Nagis, imo they are japan's third best unit after ashi and yumi. They are a bit expensive, but also very tanky.

[[Armag] diarouga]

Kanyas and nagis are definitely not underrated.

[deleted_user0]

@Garja

[[Armag] diarouga]

rams

[Garja]

exactly

[occamslightsaber]

I'd say the changdao swordsman is rather underrated for China as well. A lot of players trying out China for the first time seems to be turned off by its lack of good anti-cav options in the fortress age. Keshiks are decent enough like you pointed out, but they are difficult to mass by themselves due to the banner army system. That pretty much leaves changdaos that come with the Territorial Army as the only other anti-cav option and they are actually much better than most people would think.

The changdao swordsman is essentially a hybrid of the pikeman and the halberdier; it has the same hitpoints and speed as the pikeman to close in quickly on enemy units, but has a higher base damage like the halberdier to fight non-cav units more effectively. It also has 10% more melee resistance than both units. Now, 144 HP and 18 melee attack (with 2.3 multiplier against cavalry) in the fortress age may not seem like much on the surface, but you have to factor in the British consulate (+10% HP) and its low cost as well because the changdao is actually cheaper than the European pikeman (113 villager seconds vs 127 villager seconds). As a result, the changdao swordsman is a surprisingly versatile and cost effective anti-cav option for China despite being a melee infantry unit.

[supernapoleon]

Rods

[Googol]

Arsonists

[jonasnee]

lancers, somewhat tanky (esp with upgrades) and while the base dmg is nothing to write home about the bonus vs inf and the spanish missionairs can buff it up significantly, they are a threat to all infantry except the strongest melee inf (samurai and dopps) though admittedly they are weaker against all other things compared to gendarmes.

[Papist]

lancers, somewhat tanky (esp with upgrades) and while the base dmg is nothing to write home about the bonus vs inf and the spanish missionairs can buff it up significantly, they are a threat to all infantry except the strongest melee inf (samurai and dopps) though admittedly they are weaker against all other things compared to gendarmes.

Not sure I'd call lancers underrated. Spain makes them pretty much every game.

[deleted_user0]

this is underrated thread. not underused. a unit can be used a lot and still be underrated. Lancers might be one of those, as many ppl think they're not good. and often only send from cards but dont make them. i think its because people don't know how to use them properly (which is with rod swiss pike!)

[rsy]

i think its because people don't know how to use them properly (which is with rod swiss pike!)

What do u do about their goons? They'll just kite the shit out of ur units, no? I feel like that's my biggest weakness when I play Spain. I can't do shit about goons. If I mass skirms they just run around the map picking off reinforcements, idling vills and engaging only when they have a big mass of goons themselves. Maybe on a small cliffed up map like Bengal it would be easier to cut them off but on an open map like high plains I'd just suffer

[deleted_user0]

Make 15 skirms

[Kawapasaka]

lancers, somewhat tanky (esp with upgrades) and while the base dmg is nothing to write home about the bonus vs inf and the spanish missionairs can buff it up significantly, they are a threat to all infantry except the strongest melee inf (samurai and dopps) though admittedly they are weaker against all other things compared to gendarmes.

Not sure I'd call lancers underrated. Spain makes them pretty much every game.

Spain ships them in pretty much every game because when they get to fortress they only have 2 fortress units to ship.
Other than that, in more drawn out games with larger armies, cav unfortunately ends up fighting other cav most of the time.

[Astaroth]

I feel like this thread is currently more about decent to good units, that aren't outright super strong/Op, but that doesn't really make them underrated.

[gamevideo113]

Kanyas and nagis are definitely not underrated.

Yes obviously people train them and they are also good enough units, i included them in this list because i've seen people say that they are bad and because sometimes they are neglected, especially in team.