Subscriber Only Content

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United States of America HeadKilla
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Subscriber Only Content

Post by HeadKilla »

Why are there not more subscriber only content offerings on twitch channels for organizations like EscapeTV and ESOC?

I know that I subscribed to EscapeTV when I wanted to watch the 2v2 games during the NWC. While that was my first time using Twitch or watching any stream at all, I did notice many people subscribing when it was announced there would be a 2v2 show match. I even recall an individual gifting like 150 subs to the community so more people could be involved. It was not even a question for me to think about subscribing, as I pay for TV and movies, why not pay for some content put out by a gaming community? I am pretty green to the AOE world, but seems to me this is an area of possible revenue that has not really be utilized very well.
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Re: Subscriber Only Content

Post by onabudget »

I agree, I don't watch tv, but I am subscribed to various streaming services to watch sports and news shows. Since watching aoe3 content is like watching sports, it seems logical to have to pay for the content as well.

Sure, people could voluntarily subscribe on twitch and I did, but It seems like it was very hard for escape to keep the number of subs high. Big events would raise the number of subscribers by a lot, but after a month over half of the subs would just disappear. More regular subscriprion only content could probably have helped to keep the subcount high.
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Re: Subscriber Only Content

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Post by Mr_Bramboy »

ESOC and Escape (to a lesser extent) are not for profit organizations. We are a team of amateur volunteers who strive to deliver great AoE3 content with tournaments, show matches, and of course the ESOC Patch. The simple answer to your question would be that we simply don't need more money. Subscriber-only content may incentivize more people to subscribe, but it would also scare off a part of the casual viewer base.

This community is very generous, and as long as we can still host tournaments with the donations and subscribers that we are getting, we won't resort to (in my opinion) radical means like subscriber-only content.
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Re: Subscriber Only Content

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Post by Mr_Bramboy »

onabudget wrote:I agree, I don't watch tv, but I am subscribed to various streaming services to watch sports and news shows. Since watching aoe3 content is like watching sports, it seems logical to have to pay for the content as well.

Sure, people could voluntarily subscribe on twitch and I did, but It seems like it was very hard for escape to keep the number of subs high. Big events would raise the number of subscribers by a lot, but after a month over half of the subs would just disappear. More regular subscriprion only content could probably have helped to keep the subcount high.

Your name does not check out :hmm:
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Re: Subscriber Only Content

Post by HeadKilla »

Not for Profit does not mean you cant generate revenue.

It does not seem so radical to me to have additional sub only content. Not saying to have only sub content.

But OK. Not my jam anyway.
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Re: Subscriber Only Content

Post by Astaroth »

IMO it doesn't really fit the twitch business model, even if you are operating for profit.

Subscriber only content works best when you provide a unique, high quality service that others don't offer. That doesn't really apply as much when it comes to aoe3 streaming: theoretically, everyone can do it.

More importantly, aoe2 and aoe3 are small communities. Here, financial support is usually the result of the viewer feeling a connection to the streamer, liking him personally, wanting to support him. However, it takes time to build that connection. If you have lots of subscriber only content, newcomers won't feel as close to the streamer, might feel left out and thus not stick around, leading to less subscriptions.

In short: subscriber only content will probably lead to less subscriptions, not more, because most people don't subscribe for the high quality content but for the personal connection.
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Re: Subscriber Only Content

Post by princeofcarthage »

I am not in favor of subscriber only content, as it is bound to have opposite effect(in our case) but I had mentioned more streamlined and organized content creating on Twitch and Youtube to have more subscribers and viewers. EPL I can say to some extent is a step in that direction.
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Re: Subscriber Only Content

Post by Amsel_ »

I'm super pessimistic, so I dislike the idea of a person or group existing solely off of donations. Paying for content seems much more stable. The problem is that AoE3 has been extremely transparent with its content; so if you did stuff like only let subscribers watch a certain video, it would feel like depriving people of something they normally got for free, instead of letting them pay to get extra content. Imo there are better ways to monetize the distribution of AoE3 media. Let people pay to be tutored by a pro, and livestream it. Have them pay for you to try out a certain strategy or whatever.

My point is that it's better to let people pay to influence existing content or to create new content outright than it is to restrict content from non-subscribers all-together.
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Re: Subscriber Only Content

Post by onabudget »

Mr_Bramboy wrote:
onabudget wrote:I agree, I don't watch tv, but I am subscribed to various streaming services to watch sports and news shows. Since watching aoe3 content is like watching sports, it seems logical to have to pay for the content as well.

Sure, people could voluntarily subscribe on twitch and I did, but It seems like it was very hard for escape to keep the number of subs high. Big events would raise the number of subscribers by a lot, but after a month over half of the subs would just disappear. More regular subscriprion only content could probably have helped to keep the subcount high.

Your name does not check out :hmm:


What can I say, I manage to fit expenses into the budget when it counts :)

Astaroth wrote:IMO it doesn't really fit the twitch business model, even if you are operating for profit.

Subscriber only content works best when you provide a unique, high quality service that others don't offer. That doesn't really apply as much when it comes to aoe3 streaming: theoretically, everyone can do it.

More importantly, aoe2 and aoe3 are small communities. Here, financial support is usually the result of the viewer feeling a connection to the streamer, liking him personally, wanting to support him. However, it takes time to build that connection. If you have lots of subscriber only content, newcomers won't feel as close to the streamer, might feel left out and thus not stick around, leading to less subscriptions.

In short: subscriber only content will probably lead to less subscriptions, not more, because most people don't subscribe for the high quality content but for the personal connection.


I don't agree with you entirely. I agree that for individual streamers the personal connection is important. When I watch a player stream his gamepley for example, I care a lot about whether the player seeks engagement with the viewers, and I love it when they explain what they're doing and why they make decisions.

For channels that organize big tournaments however, I don't think that the personal connection is as important. In that case I think that the prestige of the contestants and the quality of the commentary are more important. For example, if some total dirtbag that no one likes streams a showmatch between Aizamk and [ insert player name here ], I'm watching no matter how shitty the organiser is. And if the dirtbag also happens to provide great commentary, that's a a nice extra.
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Re: Subscriber Only Content

Post by Astaroth »

Yeah, but we are still talking about a very small viewership/community here and personal connections thus still matter a lot. Many people donate to esoc TV to support their fav casters hosting new tournaments. If they felt they were being excluded, they might not do so.

It's no surprise that even in the bigger aoe2 community basically nobody ever does sub only content. It's just too risk/not worth it.

If you have millions of potential fans and high quality exclusive content (eg Netflix), you can charge money for it. If you have maybe a couple of hundred potentially interested viewers of which 50 % plus have very little money (students), what are the chances that you will make any kind of money from excluding viewers?

It seems more advisable to just stream a lot, be nice, interact, host high quality tourneys and hope for the viewers' generosity.
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Re: Subscriber Only Content

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Post by fightinfrenchman »

I was gonna make a joke about @Mr_Bramboy getting naked as subscriber only content but I'm not sure he's old enough to do that legally
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Re: Subscriber Only Content

Post by Mr_Bramboy »

fightinfrenchman wrote:I was gonna make a joke about @Mr_Bramboy getting naked as subscriber only content but I'm not sure he's old enough to do that legally

The age of consent in The Netherlands is 32.
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Re: Subscriber Only Content

Post by Interjection »

Just gonna chime in, it's actually in the MS Xbox TOS that you can't put video content behind a paywall which is partly why Escape didn't do more of it (also it didn't really sit right with us morally anyway)

I doubt MS would enforce it though if anyone did start doing this kind of thing. Reminds me of the old days when it was against the rules to upload videos of many games to YouTube but everyone did it anyway. Then eventually, MS & many other companies updated their legal stuff to allow it. Seems like more of the same to me
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Re: Subscriber Only Content

Post by Mr_Bramboy »

Interjection wrote:Just gonna chime in, it's actually in the MS Xbox TOS that you can't put video content behind a paywall which is partly why Escape didn't do more of it (also it didn't really sit right with us morally anyway)

I doubt MS would enforce it though if anyone did start doing this kind of thing. Reminds me of the old days when it was against the rules to upload videos of many games to YouTube but everyone did it anyway. Then eventually, MS & many other companies updated their legal stuff to allow it. Seems like more of the same to me

The entire EP is against the ToS too. The entirety of Project Celeste is against the ToS. I don't think/hope they care, fortunately.
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Re: Subscriber Only Content

Post by Interjection »

Those projects support their games & communities though

I guess you could argue the same for sub only streams
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Re: Subscriber Only Content

Post by Riotcoke »

I think the only thing you could do is sub only tournies, like GUA did which actually worked out quite nicely, however i don't think ESOC has ever done a tournament that you have to pay to enter. I do like the idea though.
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Re: Subscriber Only Content

Post by spanky4ever »

Riotcoke wrote:I think the only thing you could do is sub only tournies, like GUA did which actually worked out quite nicely, however i don't think ESOC has ever done a tournament that you have to pay to enter. I do like the idea though.

hmm, if that could work, I am in favor of it. But I fear that 50%, or more, would simply NOT just pay-to-watch. :arrow:
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Re: Subscriber Only Content

Post by Riotcoke »

No not pay to watch, but pay to play.
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Re: Subscriber Only Content

Post by spanky4ever »

Riotcoke wrote:No not pay to watch, but pay to play.

hmm, "that is a bold idea" ;) nah, that would not work, not in a million years imo :shock:
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Re: Subscriber Only Content

Post by fightinfrenchman »

People should be forced to pay $1 per post
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Re: Subscriber Only Content

Post by spanky4ever »

fightinfrenchman wrote:People should be forced to pay $1 per post

ups, can you afford that one-liners then :P
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Re: Subscriber Only Content

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Post by spanky4ever »

I like the idea, very much ;) one dollar for one-liners, and free for posts with actual content :o
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Re: Subscriber Only Content

Post by Mr_Bramboy »

fightinfrenchman wrote:People should be forced to pay $1 per post

Retroactively?
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Re: Subscriber Only Content

Post by fightinfrenchman »

Mr_Bramboy wrote:
fightinfrenchman wrote:People should be forced to pay $1 per post

Retroactively?


No
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Re: Subscriber Only Content

Post by blackwidow »

This would be against Valve TOS, blizzard TOS, microsoft TOS and riot TOS (to name some of the bigbois) but has been done before a ton and afaik it never got enforced

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