How to balance the civs

[Garja]

Port dont need abus in colonial' just give them a vil shipment. Also, nerfing uhlans would make Germany a terrible civ - 5 uhlan already loss to 5 huss.

Port with abus in colonial wouldnt be as op as otto are curently.

They would be more op. Even with cassas in colonial they would be very good.

[bart331]

i dont wanna think about aizamk with abus in his age2 port rush

[[Armag] diarouga]

Port with abus in colonial wouldnt be as op as otto are curently.

They would be more op. Even with cassas in colonial they would be very good.

Not sure, the opponent would semi ff easily

[Hazza54321]

Give strelets more range, make abus do range damage reduce brs fire rate

[Mimsy for President]

Japan: Just forbid walls, like for sioux. NA but needs to be nerfed.
India: Just nerf the sepoy''s HP, making the TC killing them in 2 shoots Yes and the monks too !
China' They are fine imo NA
Iro: Just don''t give them wood crates, so no TP and no market Yes
Sioux: Nerf brs and rrs Only BR
Azzy: Fine imo, maybe remoove 1vill or 1 crate NA
Dutch: Put them like they are in nilla Yes !
Spain: Give them 5 lancers and 9 rods^^ Yes or Nilla rods and the same shipments as TAD''s.
Otto: Nerf jans, making them as bad as muskets Normal settler production. Enable abus training from age3. Crescentbowmen as a replacement :thumbsup:
France: Fine 6 cdb start lel
German' Nerf the uhlans Increase its cost to 75f 100c
Brit: Fine, maybe nerf a bit their eco No
Port: Give them abus in colonial lol 3 wood crates for early tp.
Russia: Give them a decent fortress potential. NA

[thebritish]

Japan: Just forbid walls, like for sioux. NA but needs to be nerfed.
India: Just nerf the sepoys HP, making the TC killing them in 2 shoots Yes and the monks too !
China' They are fine imo NA
Iro: Just dont give them wood crates, so no TP and no market Yes
Sioux: Nerf brs and rrs Only BR
Azzy: Fine imo, maybe remoove 1vill or 1 crate NA
Dutch: Put them like they are in nilla Yes !
Spain: Give them 5 lancers and 9 rods^^ Yes or Nilla rods and the same shipments as TADs.
Otto: Nerf jans, making them as bad as muskets Normal settler production. Enable abus training from age3. Crescentbowmen as a replacement :thumbsup:
France: Fine 6 cdb start lel
German' Nerf the uhlans Increase its cost to 75f 100c
Brit: Fine, maybe nerf a bit their eco No
Port: Give them abus in colonial lol 3 wood crates for early tp.
Russia: Give them a decent fortress potential. NA

:thumbsup:

[momuuu]

Really, in balancing there are also a lot of important design choices. Fp 1.2 kinda made it colonial wars, but you could also design it to become fortress wars.

I'd say both are kinda boring. It's most interesting to have the economical and technological assymetries be as big as possible, so that a maximum amount of match ups has one of the civs be behind in either age or eco. That creates more dynamical games I think. But with the amount of civs aoe3 has, that's really hard to do. I actually think ES did a pretty decent job at it, the strats are pretty diverse, the balance is horrible though.

[Good ol Ivan]

No one seems to care for mid game or late game. Or the noobs. Will someone think of the noobs?
And yes, I agree FPs feel like they are against dynamic games - I don't want to see the civs' unique features go away or see another game.

Welp, these are my ideas:
Spain: Yeah fixing those 2 shipments might be just enough. Just maybe rods deserve a slightly boost too: I can't help it but think Spain is just weak, and only Portugal being worse.
Brits: Weak early game, nice mid game. I.e. weak in 1v1s, OP in 3v3s. Perhaps their eco should be nerfed just slightly, but would need to be done in a way which doesn't further mess up their early game. Just maybe: how about increasing their house cost, but give them an extra wood crate? Just a thought.
France: Remove them from the game. Okay seriously, their late game is too damn broken. For starters cuirrs should be nerfed. Give them colonial stats of 400 HP and 25 atk (note that this doesn't mean cuirrs would be available in colonial). Nerf Thoroughbreds card again: increase horse speed 15% but increase cavalry cost 5%. Reduce coreur limit to 75... Just maybe: I would consider slightly boosting coreur stats, like giving them a small bonus against HI or something.
Ports: Oh boy. Eh, idk, make "house of bragan?a" card give them some kind of resource trickle. Perhaps colonial food + coin, idk. Move inf upgrading cards to age 2... Also nerf the goon card. I feel that won't be enough but should do for a start. Maybe Ports are truly helpless.
Dutch: Either extra vill or increase bank building XP. I remember when Dutch were considered OP but I don't recall why was it. The fuck means "make them like they are in nilla"?
Germs: Maybe it's just me but I think they are ok. And I feel like touching uhlans or their eco would make them below average, somewhat Spain-tier.
Russians: Okish early game, bad mid game, altogether with Oprichnik and fort spam in late game. Strange but interesting combination which makes for a below average civ - their turtle and strelet rush is shadowed by the mightier ottos and native civs. I have an interesting but probably terrible idea: Move "Sevastopol" to age 2 and make it unlock trainable batches of villies in block houses - but make block houses take longer to train units (this would boost their mid game and slightly nerf their late game). Also make Oprichniks take longer to train but give them more LOS
Otto: There's no way to fix Otto without taking away their essence or otherwise doing something "big". Ottos are just too quick and have far too many options. they can either rush, turtle with abus + jans, FF with mams, spahi, and/or 2 falcs. Even FI and FR are kinda viable with ottos! And once you take away their essence, they are left with nothing. It's the same in 'nilla. Errr... I suppose reducing abus guns' range is an option, but I see no ultimate solution for Ottos really.
Iros: Getting rid of their wood crates sounds actually pretty good to me, I wouldn't have thought about it! My idea is otherwise too complicated: Condition them to research the expensive war hut inf upgrade before they rush. Make it necessary by making their inf either really slow, too costly, or take too long to train... And only the war hut upgrade would fix this. But nah that's too complicated.
Oh, and make "great house" card turn their TCs into wood factories (I have no idea how to fix their late game wood dependency).
Aztec: They are ok imho
Sioux: Nerf BRs. And fix/boost tashunkes, vastly increase their HP making them some kind of tank unit. Making teepees slightly more useful is a fun idea to ponder with.
Japs: Ehh... Nerf ashis. Keep their speed, but reduce their cost and general stats.
India: 180 sepoy HP sounds good to me. I would like it if the agra fort had some initial/colonial upgrade which would allow to train gurkhas and rajputs, with the normal Agra fort only able to train sepoys. Also make the age 4 upgrade vastly increase it's attack.
China: Boost Keshiks. Yeah that's it.

Not civ specific, but I feel these changes are pretty necessary as well:
-Reduce monitor limit to 1 (Or rather delete them from the game. I hate these guys so much).
-Fix most revolution bonuses and boost the revolutionary deck ala N??. Revolting is pretty fun, but it's almost never an option because at the end it's just never worth it.
-Schooners reduce fishermen cost to 60 wood as opposed to 40 wood. For asians its 75 wood. I also like gs' idea of making whales give a limited number of coin or reduce the amount of whales in a map. Water booming is way too OP and not all civs have schooners...
-Increase wall building time. Not just to nerf Japs, but because walls are gay as fuck.
-Maybe TPs should cost 250 wood again for the sake of fucking with ottos and iros.



-Discuss

[[Armag] diarouga]

[quote source="/post/29879/thread" timestamp="1437693484" author="@ivan"]No one seems to care for mid game or late game. Or the noobs. Will someone think of the noobs?
And yes, I agree FPs feel like they are against dynamic games - I don't want to see the civs' unique features go away or see another game.

Welp, these are my ideas:
Spain: Yeah fixing those 2 shipments might be just enough. Just maybe rods deserve a slightly boost too: I can't help it but think Spain is just weak, and only Portugal being worse.
Yeah


Brits: Weak early game, nice mid game. I.e. weak in 1v1s, OP in 3v3s. Perhaps their eco should be nerfed just slightly, but would need to be done in a way which doesn't further mess up their early game. Just maybe: how about increasing their house cost, but give them an extra wood crate? Just a thought.
Weak in 1v1? They're even op.


France: Remove them from the game. Okay seriously, their late game is too damn broken. For starters cuirrs should be nerfed. Give them colonial stats of 400 HP and 25 atk (note that this doesn't mean cuirrs would be available in colonial). Nerf Thoroughbreds card again: increase horse speed 15% but increase cavalry cost 5%. Reduce coreur limit to 75... Just maybe: I would consider slightly boosting coreur stats, like giving them a small bonus against HI or something.
Nerf their late game who cares?


Ports: Oh boy. Eh, idk, make "house of bragan?a" card give them some kind of resource trickle. Perhaps colonial food + coin, idk. Move inf upgrading cards to age 2... Also nerf the goon card. I feel that won't be enough but should do for a start. Maybe Ports are truly helpless.
Dutch: Either extra vill or increase bank building XP. I remember when Dutch were considered OP but I don't recall why was it. The fuck means "make them like they are in nilla"?
Food trickle is terrible and it wouldn't change anything.


Germs: Maybe it's just me but I think they are ok. I feel like touching uhlans or their eco would make them below average, somewhat Spain-tier.
Currently they're too strong.


Russians: Decent early game, yucky mid game, Oprichnik and fort spam in late game. Strange but interesting combination. There are many possibilities... I have an interesting but probably terrible idea: Move "Sevastopol" to age 2 and make the card allow Russians slowly trainable batches of villies in block houses, but also increase inf training time, instead of musks insta-building forts. Also Increase Oprichnik training time and LOS.
Still, they would be too weak.


Otto: There's no way to fix Otto without taking away their essence or otherwise doing something "big". It doesn't matter what subtle tweak you use because ottos are just too quick and have plenty of options. they can either spam abus, spam jans, spam abus + jans, mams, spahi, 2 falcs. Even FI and FR are possibe with ottos. And once you take away their essence, they are left with nothing. It's the same in 'nilla. Errr... reducing abus guns' range is an option, but I see no ultimate solution for Ottos really.
Slow them? Like 1 less vill
Iros: Getting rid of their wood crates sounds actually pretty good to me, I wouldn't have thought about it. My idea is otherwise too complicated: Condition them to research the expensive war hut inf upgrade before they rush. Make it necessary though making their inf either really slow, too costly, or too slow to train... And only the war hut upgrade would fix this. And fix their late game by making the "great house" card some kind of TC age 4 wood trickle.
...


Aztec: They are ok imho
Agree


Sioux: Nerf BRs. And fix/boost tashunkes, vastly increase their HP making them some kind of tank unit. Making teepees more necessary/powerful is a fun idea to ponder with, but I guess playing with teepees could make Sioux turn out to be too OP.
Agree


Japs: Ehh... Nerf ashis. Keep their speed, but reduce their cost and general stats.
The matter isn't ashi, it is more about yumis behind a wall


India: 180 sepoy HP sounds good to me. I would like it if the agra fort had some initial/colonial upgrade which would allow to train gurkhas and rajputs, with the normal Agra fort only able to train sepoys. Also make the age 4 upgrade vastly increase it's attack.
GS is right imo, don't need to nerf the rush


China: Boost Keshiks!
Nah

Not civ specific, but I feel these changes are pretty necessary as well:
-Reduce monitor limit to 1 (Or rather delete them from the game. I hate these guys so much).
No! Otherwise water becomes useless
-Fix most revolution bonuses and boost the revolutionary deck ala N??. Revolting is pretty fun, but it's almost never an option because at the end it's just never worth it.
Not at all! Nerf the revo, that's too op


-Schooners reduce fishermen cost to 60 wood as opposed to 40 wood. For asians its 75 wood. I also like gs' idea of making whales give a limited number of coin or reduce the amount of whales in a map. Water booming is way too OP and not all civs have schooners...
Agree with 60w and 75w for TAD civs


-Increase wall building time. Not just to nerf Japs, but because walls are gay as fuck.
Hum, well we don't want to see someone walling the whole map but walls in your base are fine.


-Maybe TPs should cost 250 wood again for the sake of fucking with ottos and iros.
No! 200 is better, just remove iro's and otto's crates lol



-Discuss
[/quote]

[Marco1698]

Imho:

If we have to make a patch, that would be cool to know how to balance the game

Japan: Just forbid walls, like for sioux.
India: Just nerf the sepoy''s HP, making the TC killing them in 2 shoots
China' They are fine imo
Iro: Just don''t give them wood crates, so no TP and no market
Sioux: Nerf brs and rrs
Azzy: Fine imo, maybe remoove 1vill or 1 crate
Dutch: Put them like they are in nilla
Spain: Give them 5 lancers and 9 rods^^
Otto: Nerf jans, making them as bad as muskets
France: Fine
German' Nerf the uhlans
Brit: Fine, maybe nerf a bit their eco
Port: Give them abus in colonial lol
Russia: Give them a decent fortress potential.

What do you think about that?

I don''t agree on certain points tbh. Jans are good and this is what make Otto lame probably you can nerf them but not to make them as bad as musk. Azzy aren''t fine but too good and I would nerf them a bit. Japan wall are ok imo but I would nerf yumi because they are too strong and about German I would nerf some cards. For example I would have 7 and 8 uhlans and 6 and 7 schirms. 6 and 7 schirms are still fine if you consider you get 3uhlhans extra still and I would decrease abus guns attack as Otto.

[Mimsy for President]

Maybe steppe riders should get the same stats as coyote so that China can also play colonial.
5 coyote shipment is not very good, what about 7 steppe riders (hypothetically 7 coyote runners) ?

[momuuu]

I think it's more relevant to discuss the things that should be nerfed about a civ, not the direct and exact way to do it. There's a million of different things you can do, and it's really hard to tell how much those will affect the civ. It's better to discuss what aspects of a civ should be buffed/nerfed to make it a balance AND fun civ to play.

India: India is a well designed civ, they can do aggressive, defensive and even FF like builds. It's a lot of fun to play india with this variety, so I'd argue that there isn't a single aspect of india that should be nerfed. Rather nerf them overall. It's hard to give them a crate less though, because they already age up so slowly. Maybe it'd be best to slightly reduce the overall strength of their units. They do need a pretty hard nerf I think, since they're almost OP. Maybe 1 crate less, but reduce the time it takes to build a wonder.

China: I think China is sorta boring. It can really only do FF. I think its powerlevel is okay. If you take france as the median, China might be a little bit too strong, but not by much. I'd slightly nerf their FF (maybe just change the intervetion shipment) and then try to do something about their colonial, so that they get the option to play colonial aswell. That'd probably be buffing steppe riders.

Japan: I'm not sure about Japan, they seem well designed. Fun civ to play for sure, but too strong aswell. They're easily one of the best non OP civs in the game, so they would have to be nerfed pretty hard. I feel the same about them as I feel about india, nerfing the crate start would make sense, but then they'd age up too late to be any good. Something like increasing the shrine cost, decreasing the shrine gathering rate or nerfing their units (yumis in particular I think) would be good. Maybe even all three would be required.

Ottos: Abus guns are too broken to remain untouched. Also the 5 mam shipment is too OP. I think both need a serious nerf, abus would be decent with half the damage even. If you nerf those two things, you take away their two strongest strats (or at least, weaken them). I think ottos could stay an aggressive civ like it is right now, but all the timings just need a nerf in terms of power level. Maybe it'd be neat to add some mid-lategame potential to them then. Maybe Jan huss and Jan Falc will still be too strong if you don't touch them, but I'm not sure about that.

British: It's a fun civ, but a bit too strong. Nerfs could be removing a crate (might be too much though) or slightly increasing manor cost I think. Other than that, it's a fair civ I think.

French: this would be the median, so should remain unchanged.

Germany: Maybe 3 SW + 2 Uhlan should become 3 SW. That shipment is just so fucking OP otherwise. Other than that, I actually have no clue on how to nerf/buff germany. Their semi FF is a little bit on the strong side, but their colonial is a little bit weak. Pretty close to France in power level I think.

Russia: Russia could profit from something like an extra crate to speed them up a little bit I think. I also think they need something in fortress age to increase the range of strelets (maybe just the veteran upgrade). Else they'll lose too hard to skirms. I think russia could be a fun civ to just be a colonial civ, but they would need some boost to be able to force that colonial upon their opponents.

Dutch: Dutch is well designed as a defensive civ that'll try to age up to age 3. It's really impossible to give them the ability to stay colonial aswell with the way they are designed. I'm pretty sure giving them some more bank exp and giving them a 2 falc shipment would put them on the power level of france. But maybe making them the way they were in nilla (but with the bank wagon card) would be better. I like the idea of the 2 falc shipment though, it gives them the ability to also pull off some sort of spain-like aggressive FF's. The way they are right now, they're a little bit too predictable I think.

Port: Port's hard. They really need an overall big buff. 100 extra wood so they can start with a TP or something maybe? I think they just need to get some decent age 2 shipments.. maybe something like 5 vills? The free hunting dogs in fp also did a pretty nice job I think.

Spain: I think some of spain's shipments really just need a little buff. Also, I think it'd be nice if they could somehow transition out of their aggressive FF. I would like something like an 8 vills shipment, or an 8 and 7 vill shipment maybe. That way, they can quickly boom and get their eco back up after their FF. You could also give them some sort of buff to make them more of a colonial civ, but I like the fact that their best play style is an aggressive FF. It makes the game less boring if there's a lot of assymetry going on in the game.

Sioux: Bow riders are broken, their other colonial age stuff is too weak. Also, they really need to be able to get some more eco. In the fp, they made it so that you can do tier 2 market upgrades as native civs. I think that's almost required to fix the native civs. Then nerf bow riders, boost cetan bows and clubs. Hopefully they can still do their FF stuff, but also do colonial stuff then.

Iro: I have no idea how to nerf this civ. It's so unplayed, and nowadays also banned by the community, that I actually don't really understand the civ well enough. Their seemingly just too fast at everything they do, so they probably just need fewer crates.. like for example no wood to start with.

Aztec: I'm not sure either. I know people consider aztec to be pretty good, but I'm not really sure what factors causes them to be that. I do think that aztec maybe need another decent age up politician other than the fast age up. It's so hard to do anything involving fortess age if your only decent age up to colonial is the fast age up.

[Good ol Ivan]

Brits: Weak early game, nice mid game. I.e. weak in 1v1s, OP in 3v3s. Perhaps their eco should be nerfed just slightly, but would need to be done in a way which doesn''t further mess up their early game. Just maybe: how about increasing their house cost, but give them an extra wood crate? Just a thought.
Weak in 1v1? They''re even op.

Eh, I would disagree. Elo 1v1 stats suggest Brits have only a 45% win rate in 1v1s, only behind Spain, Ports and Dutch. They are a fine civ but their early game is average if not weak.

Nerf their late game who cares?

There''s more in this game than sup 1v1s in GP. And I don''t even play treaty.

Currently they''re too strong.

Eh, I guess you are right. I''m just biased because I mostly play Germans, and I don''t find them particularly OP, just slightly above average.

Food trickle is terrible and it wouldn''t change anything.

What I had in mind was a particularly strong age 2 food/coin trickle though. Either way, I feel the answer is making that card OP enough to fix Ports. Also you missed the Dutch. I don''t play nilla so I wouldn''t know good they are.

Russians: Decent early game, yucky mid game, Oprichnik and fort spam in late game. Strange but interesting combination. There are many possibilities... I have an interesting but probably terrible idea: Move "Sevastopol" to age 2 and make the card allow Russians slowly trainable batches of villies in block houses, but also increase inf training time, instead of musks insta-building forts. Also Increase Oprichnik training time and LOS.
Still, they would be too weak.

It''s a start. What would you suggest?

Slow them? Like 1 less vill

Slowly training villies and a 5 villies start?
Something about that just doesn''t sound right... but eh alright it''s better than nothing.

GS is right imo, don''t need to nerf the rush

It''s not just about the rush - I just think the agra gives too much early map control. Problem is on the unit composition yes, but there is no fixing that but nerfing the units themselves...

No! Otherwise water becomes useless

Don''t underestimate how powerful 1 single monitor can be. Besides there''s more in water control than just monitors, as broken as monitors are.

Not at all! Nerf the revo, that''s too op

Wat

Hum, well we don''t want to see someone walling the whole map but walls in your base are fine.

Yeah but in some maps walling is just too cheap and quick, some people can easily and literally wall the entire map.

[momuuu]

Also, remove water from the game. Ivan is right though, maybe other game modes shouldnt be the focus of the balance, but theres more to the community than the high end players. If youd make a patch that also significantly improves the lategame in sup (interesting for those 3v3 players) and even helps out treaty a little bit, it might be easier to sustain the activity on the patch.

[Good ol Ivan]

Also, remove water from the game.

I actually don''t mind water per se. I genuinely think Ceylon is a really fun map.
40w fishing boats are lame and so are monitors destroying my facts with 1 hit thou.

[Jaeger]

Port: Start the game with 2 villagers and a 5 villager (with steel traps) food trickle. Take 10f away from cassador cost and add 5g. Then I think they're fine, maybe also put infantry cards in age 2.
Russia have boyars upgrade musks instead of opri and have boyars give strelets +2 range, start with 1 more food crate
British: Increase manor cost to 150w
Germany: Make uhlans 75f 100g.
Spain: 5 lancers 9 rods, fast age up.
Dutch: Like in nilla
Aztec: Reduce mace shipments by 1.
Japan: Start with 1 more vill but add 15w to shrine cost.
China: Have them start with 1 less vill but 1 more food crate and give a ranged damage of 3 dmg per vill up to 5 vills in villages.

[deleted_user0]

Russia +15% musk boyars plz

[Jaeger]

[quote source="/post/29898/thread" timestamp="1437696174" author="@diarouga"][quote source="/post/29879/thread" timestamp="1437693484" author="@ivan"]No one seems to care for mid game or late game. Or the noobs. Will someone think of the noobs?
And yes, I agree FPs feel like they are against dynamic games - I don't want to see the civs' unique features go away or see another game.

Welp, these are my ideas:
Spain: Yeah fixing those 2 shipments might be just enough. Just maybe rods deserve a slightly boost too: I can't help it but think Spain is just weak, and only Portugal being worse.
Yeah


Brits: Weak early game, nice mid game. I.e. weak in 1v1s, OP in 3v3s. Perhaps their eco should be nerfed just slightly, but would need to be done in a way which doesn't further mess up their early game. Just maybe: how about increasing their house cost, but give them an extra wood crate? Just a thought.
Weak in 1v1? They're even op.


France: Remove them from the game. Okay seriously, their late game is too damn broken. For starters cuirrs should be nerfed. Give them colonial stats of 400 HP and 25 atk (note that this doesn't mean cuirrs would be available in colonial). Nerf Thoroughbreds card again: increase horse speed 15% but increase cavalry cost 5%. Reduce coreur limit to 75... Just maybe: I would consider slightly boosting coreur stats, like giving them a small bonus against HI or something.
Nerf their late game who cares?


Ports: Oh boy. Eh, idk, make "house of bragan?a" card give them some kind of resource trickle. Perhaps colonial food + coin, idk. Move inf upgrading cards to age 2... Also nerf the goon card. I feel that won't be enough but should do for a start. Maybe Ports are truly helpless.
Dutch: Either extra vill or increase bank building XP. I remember when Dutch were considered OP but I don't recall why was it. The fuck means "make them like they are in nilla"?
Food trickle is terrible and it wouldn't change anything.


Germs: Maybe it's just me but I think they are ok. I feel like touching uhlans or their eco would make them below average, somewhat Spain-tier.
Currently they're too strong.


Russians: Decent early game, yucky mid game, Oprichnik and fort spam in late game. Strange but interesting combination. There are many possibilities... I have an interesting but probably terrible idea: Move "Sevastopol" to age 2 and make the card allow Russians slowly trainable batches of villies in block houses, but also increase inf training time, instead of musks insta-building forts. Also Increase Oprichnik training time and LOS.
Still, they would be too weak.


Otto: There's no way to fix Otto without taking away their essence or otherwise doing something "big". It doesn't matter what subtle tweak you use because ottos are just too quick and have plenty of options. they can either spam abus, spam jans, spam abus + jans, mams, spahi, 2 falcs. Even FI and FR are possibe with ottos. And once you take away their essence, they are left with nothing. It's the same in 'nilla. Errr... reducing abus guns' range is an option, but I see no ultimate solution for Ottos really.
Slow them? Like 1 less vill
Iros: Getting rid of their wood crates sounds actually pretty good to me, I wouldn't have thought about it. My idea is otherwise too complicated: Condition them to research the expensive war hut inf upgrade before they rush. Make it necessary though making their inf either really slow, too costly, or too slow to train... And only the war hut upgrade would fix this. And fix their late game by making the "great house" card some kind of TC age 4 wood trickle.
...


Aztec: They are ok imho
Agree


Sioux: Nerf BRs. And fix/boost tashunkes, vastly increase their HP making them some kind of tank unit. Making teepees more necessary/powerful is a fun idea to ponder with, but I guess playing with teepees could make Sioux turn out to be too OP.
Agree


Japs: Ehh... Nerf ashis. Keep their speed, but reduce their cost and general stats.
The matter isn't ashi, it is more about yumis behind a wall


India: 180 sepoy HP sounds good to me. I would like it if the agra fort had some initial/colonial upgrade which would allow to train gurkhas and rajputs, with the normal Agra fort only able to train sepoys. Also make the age 4 upgrade vastly increase it's attack.
GS is right imo, don't need to nerf the rush


China: Boost Keshiks!
Nah

Not civ specific, but I feel these changes are pretty necessary as well:
-Reduce monitor limit to 1 (Or rather delete them from the game. I hate these guys so much).
No! Otherwise water becomes useless
-Fix most revolution bonuses and boost the revolutionary deck ala N??. Revolting is pretty fun, but it's almost never an option because at the end it's just never worth it.
Not at all! Nerf the revo, that's too op


-Schooners reduce fishermen cost to 60 wood as opposed to 40 wood. For asians its 75 wood. I also like gs' idea of making whales give a limited number of coin or reduce the amount of whales in a map. Water booming is way too OP and not all civs have schooners...
Agree with 60w and 75w for TAD civs


-Increase wall building time. Not just to nerf Japs, but because walls are gay as fuck.
Hum, well we don't want to see someone walling the whole map but walls in your base are fine.


-Maybe TPs should cost 250 wood again for the sake of fucking with ottos and iros.
No! 200 is better, just remove iro's and otto's crates lol



-Discuss
[/quote][/quote]Food trickle for port is not terrible and it solves their main problem which is being too map dependent. I dont think it should be a shipment tho, I think port should start with 2 vills and get a 5 vill (with ST) food trickle. Thats also a nice boost of 5 more pop.

[Good ol Ivan]

Food trickle for port is not terrible and it solves their main problem which is being too map dependent. I dont think it should be a shipment tho, I think port should start with 2 vills and get a 5 vill (with ST) food trickle. Thats also a nice boost of 5 more pop.

That sounds weird as fuck, solutions shouldnt be too alien. Might as well make Ottos start with 20 villies instead of a TC with 6 villies.
The noobs, will anybody think of the noobs?

[Jaeger]

Food trickle for port is not terrible and it solves their main problem which is being too map dependent. I dont think it should be a shipment tho, I think port should start with 2 vills and get a 5 vill (with ST) food trickle. Thats also a nice boost of 5 more pop.

That sounds weird as fuck, solutions shouldnt be too alien. Might as well make Ottos start with 20 villies instead of a TC with 6 villies.
The noobs, will anybody think of the noobs?

Lol its weird as fuck but it solves the problem

[Good ol Ivan]

That sounds weird as fuck, solutions shouldnt be too alien. Might as well make Ottos start with 20 villies instead of a TC with 6 villies.
The noobs, will anybody think of the noobs?

Lol its weird as fuck but it solves the problem

I think its all about finding the most coherent solutions, not just ass-pulls.

[Mimsy for President]

Boyars for musks is a good idea. However, starting with +1 vill as Japan and increasing the shrine cost = housed (no matter what crates you get at start). Perhaps decreasing shrines gathering rate sounds more judicious.

[Jaeger]

Lol its weird as fuck but it solves the problem

I think its all about finding the most coherent solutions, not just ass-pulls.

Okkkk, then have port start with free hunting dogs like in fanpatch and have them be able to gather like 2x as much food as there in an animal, like india does with trees. Also, maybe a 2.5v (with ST) food trickle in age 1.

[_DB_]

Otto: Abus and mamelukes are a cheat.

-Abus should cost 75 food and 125 coin.
-5 Mameluke should cost 1600 coin.
-Jans should have 220 HP.
-Abus should have 35 base attack. It should have more negative multiplier vs cannons and cav.

Dutch:
-Ruyters should cost 40 food and 70 coin.
-Banks should cost 330 food and 330 wood.
-Should receive 300 coin on age up with tower.
-Artillery foundry should cost 250 wood.
-6 petard to 5 petard shipment.
-9 Ruyters to 8 ruyters (I think it was there in FP?)
-As fan patch, change bank gather rate as you send the plantation cards and boost on tulip speculation.
-Villager build limit to 60.

China:
-+1 food crate.
-Porcelain tower when built in age 2, should upgrade its income as you age up everytime.
-Steppe riders should have 30 siege attack, instead of 25. 1.5x multiplier vs vils.
-Iron flail and meteor hammer should be buffed.
-Keshik need extra treatment of buffing.

Japan:
-Shrines should cost 135 wood. Built limit to 15.
-Toshugu shrine should boost shrine less.
-Shrines should have 1500 HP (down from 1600 HP).
-Shogun Tokugawa is a cheat. Nerf him.
-4 Flamming arrow in age 4 to 3 flamming arrow.
-Daimyo mototada looks cute. Shouldn't train cav.
-Ashi should have only 4 speed in age 2. It should upgrade to 4.5 as you age to age 3.
-Yumi need to be nerfed.
-Samurai should have more base stats. (It doesn't suck, but atleast give people a reason to use that cool unit)
-Bald Pikeman should cost 75 export.

India:
-Sepoy 180 HP, it's fine.
-British East India company should boost Sowar by 15%
-Guard Zambs will recieve +2 range.
-Sowar should have 240 starting HP.
-3 Mahouts card should cost 1250 Food.
-2 Mahouts card should cost 500 Food.
-2 Howdah should cost nothing.
-9 Zambs to 8 Zambs (FP improvement).
-The mansabdar urumi should be trainable from charminar gate.
-Agra age up should no more give 2 sepoys.
-Agra for age 2 aging speed should be slower by 10 seconds.
-All other wonders aging speed should increase by 10 seconds.
-Otto MM should cost 180 export.

Russia:
-Veteran Musk should cost 300 wood and 100 coin. But now it will upgrade the musk properly to make the stats same as other civs musks. Cost should increase by 15 food and 10 coin.
-5 Cossack to 4 cossack shipment (FP improvement).
-Strelets should get more range as they age (FP improvement).
-Should recieve advanced arsenal improvements automatically without having the card.
-Opris speed to 6. 10% less siege attack.
-Accept demands of somppu.
-Should recieve hunting dogs from very start of game.

Ports:
-Should recieve hunting dogs from very start of game.
-Genitours card should grant +4 range instead of +6.
-Ranged cavalry caracole should cost 200 wood and 400 coin. Will grant goons +4 range.
-

Germany:

-Everything is fine. War wagons should have +0.5 speed on guard upgrade.
-In age 4, every shipment should grant only 3 ulhans (down from 4)

France:
-Coreurs should cost 125 food. (FP improvement).
-If france sends early skirms card, the age 2 skirms should have same stats as Gurk in age 2.
-Wilderness warfare will affect skirms HP only by 10% (down from 20%).
-3 Cuirassier should cost 250 food.
-Great coats upgrade only grant 10% HP boost to coreur.


Rest all civ balance to others comments.

[cedarfarms]

abus need to do ranged damaged and i think they suddenly become much less OP, quick fix