How to balance the civs

User avatar
Switzerland _venox_
Howdah
Posts: 1723
Joined: Mar 27, 2015
ESO: _Venox_
Location: Switzerland

How to balance the civs

Post by _venox_ »

How about trying to change as little as possible and not change things too drastically?
Changing starting crates seems the best option to me. For op civs it's -100 starting resources, where as portus dutch and spain probably need +100.
Maybe 1 more damage for xbows or times 1.4 and not 1.3. Change wall cost to 10 wood since most already delete the pillars anyways.
The portuguese should get the infantry combat in fortress age though.
Bowrider should get negative multiplier against villagers and a lower base damage, also their cetans and warclubs should be buffed.
Maybe +100 food and +100 coin at start for having a bad economy and to speed up the game for them, since br will get less viable to play.
Abus doing range damage sounds nice to me.

Also if things get fixed, I'd prefer it to fix the maps and bugs first, industrial mercs for asian civs is just bullshit. Warships still do too much damage to artillery and infantry, maybe negative multipliers or special abilities can be used only on ships and buildings.
Don't let the things you can't change dictate your life.
User avatar
France [Armag] diarouga
Ninja
NWC LAN Gold
Posts: 12710
Joined: Feb 26, 2015
ESO: diarouga
Location: France

How to balance the civs

Post by [Armag] diarouga »

[quote source="/post/29995/thread" timestamp="1437716794" author="@subzero"]Otto: Abus and mamelukes are a cheat.

-Abus should cost 75 food and 125 coin.
-5 Mameluke should cost 1600 coin.
-Jans should have 220 HP.
-Abus should have 35 base attack. It should have more negative multiplier vs cannons and cav.

Dutch:
-
Ruyters should cost 40 food and 70 coin
Why?.
-Banks should cost 330 food and 330 wood.
It doesn't change anything
-Should receive 300 coin on age up with tower.
Why? 400w is much better
-Artillery foundry should cost 250 wood.
Who cares?
-6 petard to 5 petard shipment.
Who cares?
-9 Ruyters to 8 ruyters (I think it was there in FP?)
Why? Dutch are already too weak, why do you want to nerf them?
-As fan patch, change bank gather rate as you send the plantation cards and boost on tulip speculation.
-Villager build limit to 60.

China:
-+
1 food crate.
-Porcelain tower when built in age 2, should upgrade its income as you age up everytime.
-Steppe riders should have 30 siege attack, instead of 25. 1.5x multiplier vs vils.
-Iron flail and meteor hammer should be buffed.
-Keshik need extra treatment of buffing.
It would make china too op

Japan:
-
Shrines should cost 135 wood. Built limit to 15.
-Toshugu shrine should boost shrine less.
-Shrines should have 1500 HP (down from 1600 HP).
-Shogun Tokugawa is a cheat. Nerf him.
-4 Flamming arrow in age 4 to 3 flamming arrow.
-Daimyo mototada looks cute. Shouldn't train cav.
-Ashi should have only 4 speed in age 2. It should upgrade to 4.5 as you age to age 3.
-Yumi need to be nerfed.
-Samurai should have more base stats. (It doesn't suck, but atleast give people a reason to use that cool unit)
-Bald Pikeman should cost 75 export.
It would kill japan, that's stupid, japan is a civ which is hard to play, it shouldn't be a weak one.

India:
-Sepoy 180 HP, it's fine.
-British East India company should boost Sowar by 15%
-Guard Zambs will recieve +2 range.
-Sowar should have 240 starting HP.
-3 Mahouts card should cost 1250 Food.
-2 Mahouts card should cost 500 Food.
-2 Howdah should cost nothing.
-9 Zambs to 8 Zambs (FP improvement).
-The mansabdar urumi should be trainable from charminar gate.
-Agra age up should no more give 2 sepoys.
-Agra for age 2 aging speed should be slower by 10 seconds.
-All other wonders aging speed should increase by 10 seconds.
-Otto MM should cost 180 export.
Hum, slow agra isn't a good idea, india is already too slow. As GS said, here you nerf their early game, you should nerf their eco and late game

Russia:
-Veteran Musk should cost 300 wood and 100 coin. But now it will upgrade the musk properly to make the stats same as other civs musks. Cost should increase by 15 food and 10 coin.
You don't want to be making musk in fortress so...
-5 Cossack to 4 cossack shipment (FP improvement).
Hum k
-Strelets should get more range as they age (FP improvement).
Nice
-Should recieve advanced arsenal improvements automatically without having the card.
K
-Opris speed to 6. 10% less siege attack.
Agree
-Accept demands of somppu.
+1
-Should recieve hunting dogs from very start of game.
No, too op


Ports:
-
Should recieve hunting dogs from very start of game.
Why not
-Genitours card should grant +4 range instead of +6.
Hum, idk
-Ranged cavalry caracole should cost 200 wood and 400 coin. Will grant goons +4 range.
-

Germany:

-
Everything is fine. War wagons should have +0.5 speed on guard upgrade.
Everything fine? They're way too op
-In age 4, every shipment should grant only 3 ulhans (down from 4)
Doesn't matter

France:
-
Coreurs should cost 125 food. (FP improvement).
No!
-If france sends early skirms card, the age 2 skirms should have same stats as Gurk in age 2.
Hum, not really, we want the fre to age 3 not to use that card
-Wilderness warfare will affect skirms HP only by 10% (down from 20%).
Disagree.
-3 Cuirassier should cost 250 food.
Why???
-Great coats upgrade only grant 10% HP boost to coreur.
No, it would kill the civ advantage


Rest all civ balance to others comments. [/quote]
You have not set your flag, click to select your flag. Marco1698

How to balance the civs

Post by Marco1698 »

jerom wrote:Also, remove water from the game. Ivan is right though, maybe other game modes shouldnt be the focus of the balance, but theres more to the community than the high end players. If youd make a patch that also significantly improves the lategame in sup (interesting for those 3v3 players) and even helps out treaty a little bit, it might be easier to sustain the activity on the patch.

water is part of the game can''t be removed. Without water isn''t the same aoe3
No Flag lordcharlie131
Musketeer
Posts: 60
Joined: Apr 21, 2015

How to balance the civs

Post by lordcharlie131 »

lemmings121 wrote:I think all of those would fail, someway.

imo we CANT make so many changes at once.
ES tried doing it how many times? 15 patches in nilla? 6 twc and 4 in tad? dont remember the number, but all patches changed a lot of stuff, and all patched made another civ op by accident. every single patch.

Imo A new patch should change as little as possible, see how the mete adapts, and make another small changes.

changing many things in every civ just changes the game completely, in impredicted ways..
+1
User avatar
Germany oO_Chief_Oo
Musketeer
Posts: 97
Joined: Jun 2, 2015
ESO: S77XN

How to balance the civs

Post by oO_Chief_Oo »

Just Balance russia like moesbar...
User avatar
Switzerland _venox_
Howdah
Posts: 1723
Joined: Mar 27, 2015
ESO: _Venox_
Location: Switzerland

How to balance the civs

Post by _venox_ »

Get wall cost up to 10-12 wood and it's fine imo.
Don't let the things you can't change dictate your life.
User avatar
India _DB_
Howdah
Posts: 1787
Joined: May 20, 2015

How to balance the civs

Post by _DB_ »

According to people, Otto and iro are civs if they are removed and nobody would care. Best balance imo.
Doing what you like is Freedom...
Liking what you do is Happiness...
Germany blasdg
Dragoon
Posts: 256
Joined: Mar 24, 2015

How to balance the civs

Post by blasdg »

Since everybody is spamming the thread, here are my changes:

Spain: Give them the 400 wood age-up. That way they can easily be played in the same way as france, starting with musk/huss and the strong 5 vill shipment (equal to 4 cdb). Their fortress is ok imo, Lancers are good and they can always just go skirm/goon/lancer which is pretty good when microed properly.

Aztec: No idea, seems fine tbh.

India: Minor nerfto sepoy (maybe -10 hp) and nerf karni mata gathering rate increase.

Russia: Strelets get more range with the veteran upgrade OR the strelet combat card. Nerf oprichniks a BIT.

Ports: No clue how to fix them, maybe hunting dogs from the start?!

Sioux: nerf BR and buff cetan a bit.

Iroquis: Force them to use travois for a house, no tp/market in age1 from the get go. Also make their forst shipment in age 2 come 15 seconds slower, so no 4 kanya in your base at 4:00.

Japan: Again no clue how to fix them. Very early they arent as good and very late their eco falls off quite hard again, gotta nerf the mid game - but how?

China: - 100 food + 1 vil - increases their age-up time by approximately 20 seconds. Nerf intervention card in fortress (lol 9 guard musks wtf).

Otto: - 100 food. Jan - 15 hp. Abus ROF to 4.5.

Dutch: nilla.

France: no changes needed (fuck treaty, really!!!)

Germans: Dont nerf ulans, they already lose to huss, cosak, axe riders and kanya. Maybe dont give ulan for 3 SW (fanpatch).

Brits: fine imo.
Palestine Mimsy for President
Jaeger
Posts: 3680
Joined: Feb 21, 2015

How to balance the civs

Post by Mimsy for President »

blasdg wrote:Spain: Give them the 400 wood age-up. That way they can easily be played in the same way as france, starting with musk/huss and the strong 5 vill shipment (equal to 4 cdb). Their fortress is ok imo, Lancers are good and they can always just go skirm/goon/lancer which is pretty good when microed properly.

Sounds good but they also get the shipments faster thus they might even rape iro..
User avatar
Brazil lemmings121
Jaeger
Posts: 2673
Joined: Mar 15, 2015
ESO: lemmings121

How to balance the civs

Post by lemmings121 »

venox wrote:How about trying to change as little as possible and not change things too drastically?
Changing starting crates seems the best option to me. For op civs it''s -100 starting resources, where as portus dutch and spain probably need +100.
Maybe 1 more damage for xbows or times 1.4 and not 1.3. Change wall cost to 10 wood since most already delete the pillars anyways.
The portuguese should get the infantry combat in fortress age though.
Bowrider should get negative multiplier against villagers and a lower base damage, also their cetans and warclubs should be buffed.
Maybe +100 food and +100 coin at start for having a bad economy and to speed up the game for them, since br will get less viable to play.
Abus doing range damage sounds nice to me.

Also if things get fixed, I''d prefer it to fix the maps and bugs first, industrial mercs for asian civs is just bullshit. Warships still do too much damage to artillery and infantry, maybe negative multipliers or special abilities can be used only on ships and buildings.

yep, 100% agree.

changing all civs how people is suggesting would mess up balance even more.
Image
User avatar
India _DB_
Howdah
Posts: 1787
Joined: May 20, 2015

How to balance the civs

Post by _DB_ »

blasdg wrote:Since everybody is spamming the thread, here are my changes:

Spain: Give them the 400 wood age-up.
Lol. I''m okay with that. But will make Spain the best civ, from the worst. Anyway their fortress is nothing special so it will balance them out.

Btw, can anybody tell me what''s so specific about nilla Dutch? I don''t play nilla, but I want to know.
Doing what you like is Freedom...
Liking what you do is Happiness...
Palestine Mimsy for President
Jaeger
Posts: 3680
Joined: Feb 21, 2015

How to balance the civs

Post by Mimsy for President »

subzero wrote:
blasdg wrote:Since everybody is spamming the thread, here are my changes:

Spain: Give them the 400 wood age-up.
Lol. Im okay with that. But will make Spain the best civ, from the worst. Anyway their fortress is nothing special so it will balance them out.

Btw, can anybody tell me whats so specific about nilla Dutch? I dont play nilla, but I want to know.
Basically you have +1 settler in the beginning and building a bank gives you double xp. Nilla skirms are op.
No Flag สยาม
Skirmisher
Posts: 102
Joined: May 7, 2015

How to balance the civs

Post by สยาม »

subzero wrote:Otto: Abus and mamelukes are a cheat.

-Abus should cost 75 food and 125 coin.
-5 Mameluke should cost 1600 coin.
-Jans should have 220 HP.
-Abus should have 35 base attack. It should have more negative multiplier vs cannons and cav.

Dutch:
-
Ruyters should cost 40 food and 70 coin.
-Banks should cost 330 food and 330 wood.
-Should receive 300 coin on age up with tower.
-Artillery foundry should cost 250 wood.
-6 petard to 5 petard shipment.
-9 Ruyters to 8 ruyters (I think it was there in FP?)
-As fan patch, change bank gather rate as you send the plantation cards and boost on tulip speculation.
-Villager build limit to 60.

China:
-+
1 food crate.
-Porcelain tower when built in age 2, should upgrade its income as you age up everytime.
-Steppe riders should have 30 siege attack, instead of 25. 1.5x multiplier vs vils.
-Iron flail and meteor hammer should be buffed.
-Keshik need extra treatment of buffing.

Japan:
-
Shrines should cost 135 wood. Built limit to 15.
-Toshugu shrine should boost shrine less.
-Shrines should have 1500 HP (down from 1600 HP).
-Shogun Tokugawa is a cheat. Nerf him.
-4 Flamming arrow in age 4 to 3 flamming arrow.
-Daimyo mototada looks cute. Shouldn''t train cav.
-Ashi should have only 4 speed in age 2. It should upgrade to 4.5 as you age to age 3.
-Yumi need to be nerfed.
-Samurai should have more base stats. (It doesn''t suck, but atleast give people a reason to use that cool unit)
-Bald Pikeman should cost 75 export.

India:
-Sepoy 180 HP, it''s fine.
-British East India company should boost Sowar by 15%
-Guard Zambs will recieve +2 range.
-Sowar should have 240 starting HP.
-3 Mahouts card should cost 1250 Food.
-2 Mahouts card should cost 500 Food.
-2 Howdah should cost nothing.
-9 Zambs to 8 Zambs (FP improvement).
-The mansabdar urumi should be trainable from charminar gate.
-Agra age up should no more give 2 sepoys.
-Agra for age 2 aging speed should be slower by 10 seconds.
-All other wonders aging speed should increase by 10 seconds.
-Otto MM should cost 180 export.

Russia:
-Veteran Musk should cost 300 wood and 100 coin. But now it will upgrade the musk properly to make the stats same as other civs musks. Cost should increase by 15 food and 10 coin.
-5 Cossack to 4 cossack shipment (FP improvement).
-Strelets should get more range as they age (FP improvement).
-Should recieve advanced arsenal improvements automatically without having the card.
-Opris speed to 6. 10% less siege attack.
-Accept demands of somppu.
-Should recieve hunting dogs from very start of game.

Ports:
-
Should recieve hunting dogs from very start of game.
-Genitours card should grant +4 range instead of +6.
-Ranged cavalry caracole should cost 200 wood and 400 coin. Will grant goons +4 range.
-

Germany:

-
Everything is fine. War wagons should have +0.5 speed on guard upgrade.
-In age 4, every shipment should grant only 3 ulhans (down from 4)

France:
-
Coreurs should cost 125 food. (FP improvement).
-If france sends early skirms card, the age 2 skirms should have same stats as Gurk in age 2.
-Wilderness warfare will affect skirms HP only by 10% (down from 20%).
-3 Cuirassier should cost 250 food.
-Great coats upgrade only grant 10% HP boost to coreur.


Rest all civ balance to others comments.
China need buff age 2 too.and need start age2 at 4.30min and buff anti cavalry.
User avatar
Switzerland _venox_
Howdah
Posts: 1723
Joined: Mar 27, 2015
ESO: _Venox_
Location: Switzerland

How to balance the civs

Post by _venox_ »

Why the fuck does china need a buff for colonial?! Fortress not good enough
Don't let the things you can't change dictate your life.
User avatar
India _DB_
Howdah
Posts: 1787
Joined: May 20, 2015

How to balance the civs

Post by _DB_ »

shaolinstar wrote:
subzero wrote:Lol. Im okay with that. But will make Spain the best civ, from the worst. Anyway their fortress is nothing special so it will balance them out.

Btw, can anybody tell me whats so specific about nilla Dutch? I dont play nilla, but I want to know.
Basically you have +1 settler in the beginning and building a bank gives you double xp. Nilla skirms are op.
Ah thanks for telling!

So Dutch is better than every civ in nilla or every euro civ is worse in tad?
Doing what you like is Freedom...
Liking what you do is Happiness...
User avatar
Switzerland _venox_
Howdah
Posts: 1723
Joined: Mar 27, 2015
ESO: _Venox_
Location: Switzerland

How to balance the civs

Post by _venox_ »

Expect of spain and otto.
Don't let the things you can't change dictate your life.
User avatar
Austria KINGofOsmane
Pro Player
Posts: 3096
Joined: Feb 24, 2015
ESO: KINGofOsmane
Location: Walling Town

How to balance the civs

Post by KINGofOsmane »

new patch would be cool ye
"Losing to Callen was the worst night of my life" Gibthedurrty 2019
"If hazza can get pr42 with team i can get pr50 with 1v1" Gibthedurrty 2018
Lecastete wrote: Dude i hate this game. I am bad and i also dont have luck
Tete cs:go experience
User avatar
No Flag thebritish
Jaeger
Posts: 3787
Joined: Jul 18, 2015

How to balance the civs

Post by thebritish »

kingofosmane wrote:new patch would be cool ye
Is this going to be a fanpatch or?
krichk wrote: For some reason, you want the world to know that you're brave enough to challenge thebritish
Netherlands momuuu
Ninja
Posts: 14237
Joined: Jun 7, 2015
ESO: Jerom_

How to balance the civs

Post by momuuu »

I'm still strongly in favor of giving Dutch 2 falcs and returning the bank exp to what it was in nilla. I think that'd give them the ability to also do some aggressive FF strats or something. The match up with France is actually pretty close, so I think this would fix that match up (I normally feel the only reason I don't win it is because they do have 2 falcs).

Also, I was thinking the other day, would Dutch benefit from have a 70 vill limit instead of 50 vills? Their lategame is really weak as it is right now, and the 50 vill limit doesnt allow them to boom up with a 2nd TC. Yes, they could add banks, but after market upgrades a bank isnt even worth 4 vills for 700 resources. For an extra 250 wood and 50 food, you get a TC (that also functions as an outpost ofc, so the 250w is already nulified) and 4 villagers. That really shows how weak banks are in age 3. And if you actually wanted to bank boom, you have to send a card first and make your military 10% slower and then you are only allowed to make 2 extra banks. It's honestly just useless, it might barely even be worth it to make extra banks in any game after the opening.

Or at the very least, they should be forced to send shipments to make more banks. I mean, seriously? You need a shipment to actually be allowed to invest 700 resources in something that's easily worse than a TC...
No Flag สยาม
Skirmisher
Posts: 102
Joined: May 7, 2015

How to balance the civs

Post by สยาม »

venox wrote:Why the fuck does china need a buff for colonial?! Fortress not good enough
u never play china?
if china. rush first huss+musk lose eco.
age 3 good but eco = lose
lol
Netherlands momuuu
Ninja
Posts: 14237
Joined: Jun 7, 2015
ESO: Jerom_

How to balance the civs

Post by momuuu »

venox wrote:Why the fuck does china need a buff for colonial?! Fortress not good enough
Because it''d be more fun if they could do FF and go for colonial play. That''s why india is so much fun for example.
User avatar
Austria KINGofOsmane
Pro Player
Posts: 3096
Joined: Feb 24, 2015
ESO: KINGofOsmane
Location: Walling Town

How to balance the civs

Post by KINGofOsmane »

fp 1.2 was very balanced no ? so why we dont play still on dat ?
"Losing to Callen was the worst night of my life" Gibthedurrty 2019
"If hazza can get pr42 with team i can get pr50 with 1v1" Gibthedurrty 2018
Lecastete wrote: Dude i hate this game. I am bad and i also dont have luck
Tete cs:go experience
User avatar
Austria KINGofOsmane
Pro Player
Posts: 3096
Joined: Feb 24, 2015
ESO: KINGofOsmane
Location: Walling Town

How to balance the civs

Post by KINGofOsmane »

thebritish wrote:
kingofosmane wrote:new patch would be cool ye
Is this going to be a fanpatch or?
guess so ye
"Losing to Callen was the worst night of my life" Gibthedurrty 2019
"If hazza can get pr42 with team i can get pr50 with 1v1" Gibthedurrty 2018
Lecastete wrote: Dude i hate this game. I am bad and i also dont have luck
Tete cs:go experience
No Flag สยาม
Skirmisher
Posts: 102
Joined: May 7, 2015

How to balance the civs

Post by สยาม »

ottman iro russia can rush fast . and china start age2 at 5.00 min
china will lose rush lose eco lose house?
rush = lose eco lose village
lose house? china age 2 have 2 house (china house have full6 but 1 house use 200 wood so so huss+musk can atk house and rush hard) or eng have more pop in world history ??? lol fail
china india ottman have more pop in world history ( eng can build 1 house = 1village so 20 house = 20village (2000food op fail history))
age 3 maybe good but it lose eco lose house and lose village? age 3 = lose

Buff China = Balance Historry
why?
Xiongnu or Huns can attack Europe and Rome. they lose Xiongnu. but Xiongnu lose Han Chinese.
Xiongnu or Huns are Turkish. Ottoman are Turkish. Xinjiang are Turkish. they lose Han Chinese.
Mongol can attack Europe and Asian. Mongol win Chinese and lose Chinese.
Japanese invasions of Korea. japanese lose Han Chinese.
why? Chinese lose Manchu? Because Wu Sangui open Wall.
why? Qing dy lose japanese? Empress Dowager Cixi don't upgrade all army.
japanese have Portuguese army upgrade army since Meiji period.
But Chinese in game to very fail history and don't strongest.but History to The Strongest amry.
eso-community.net/thread/617/aoe3-update-china
eso-community.net/thread/1078/english-more-people-history
I like Aoe3 but can't play China only for rated game.
top elo rating player can't play anti cavalry. full pure cavalry or 70%cavalry if not age4 old han reform or manchu or musk = lose low rating player.

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 13 guests

Which top 10 players do you wish to see listed?

All-time

Active last two weeks

Active last month

Supremacy

Treaty

Official

ESOC Patch

Treaty Patch

1v1 Elo

2v2 Elo

3v3 Elo

Power Rating

Which streams do you wish to see listed?

Twitch

Age of Empires III

Age of Empires IV