How to balance the civs

[à ¸ªà ¸¢à ¸²à ¸¡]

Why french and germans dont have schooners btw ?

Because they have Coreurs/SW.

you dont need to complete rework the civs, but you can change some strats up to make them more entertainable/unique.

I actually think the problem with the fan patch was that they made it with balance in mind. I think that a succesful patch always has gameplay as the core idea behind it, and then balances according to that.

+1

Yeah we dont really care about history, we just want a fair game. Otherwise TWC civs would suck and euro civ would be op which isnt true.

I do care.
And actually that is true, you just dont see the game beyond high level play in sup 1v1s.
TWC civs start with more options through colonial/fortress (16th-17th centuries), but their eco fall behinds eventually through mid and late game.
But at the end of the day the game is only loosely based on history so whatever.

yes japan afer Meiji Restoration
they not Ikko-Ikki Samurai Yumi Archer Naginata Rider Yabusame Shinobi shogun
but https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_Sino-Japanese_War
but Le Dragon . he think china vs japan by japan have Ikko-Ikki Samurai Yumi Archer Naginata Rider Yabusame Shinobi shogun
but they go age R same European civ because they use long gun

[Good ol Ivan]

Well the germans didnt have much of a navy for sure, and I dont think the french navy was that great. So it probably makes some sense history wise to not give those civs the best water potential.

I didnt even mention History because if this game was historically accurate, French would be the best civ in the game next to Brit, Otto and Russia.
French Navy was the 2nd best next to the British Royal Navy which clearly dominated everything like does Intel vs AMD today (awkward comparison idc). I mean losing vs the best doesnt make you a sh*t.

@ivan
I fucking care because French - and to a lesser Germans - have no chance vs. "schooners civs" on certain maps maps such as Hispaniola, Indochina or Indonesia.

Besides both have a strong late game eco anyway.

Yeah no shit Sherlock, like 100% of the civs.

Saying 100% of the civs have a strong late game eco is like saying 100% of the civs can rush.
But yeah you are right, the french did have a navy so historical accuracy is not the excuse here.
The problem to me isnt as much that the french and germans lack a schooners card, but that schooners is fucking OP.

[Good ol Ivan]

yes japan afer Meiji Restoration
they not Ikko-Ikki Samurai Yumi Archer Naginata Rider Yabusame Shinobi shogun
but https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_Sino-Japanese_War
but Le Dragon . he think china vs japan by japan have Ikko-Ikki Samurai Yumi Archer Naginata Rider Yabusame Shinobi shogun
but they go age R same European civ because they use long gun

Your posts are giving me a headache.

[thebritish]

Lol

[[Armag] diarouga]

Well the germans didnt have much of a navy for sure, and I dont think the french navy was that great. So it probably makes some sense history wise to not give those civs the best water potential.

I didnt even mention History because if this game was historically accurate, French would be the best civ in the game next to Brit, Otto and Russia.
French Navy was the 2nd best next to the British Royal Navy which clearly dominated everything as Intel does vs AMD today (awkward comparison idc). I mean losing vs the best doesnt make you a sh*t.

@ivan
I fucking care because French - and to a lesser Germans - have no chance vs. "schooners civs" on certain maps maps such as Hispaniola, Indochina or Indonesia.

Besides both have a strong late game eco anyway.

Yeah no shit Sherlock, like 100% of the civs.

djigit in rage mode comrad

[_venox_]

Schooners needs to be nerfed and not given to France and Germany.

[Marco1698]

Can we have same features of fan patch?

[momuuu]

Well the germans didnt have much of a navy for sure, and I dont think the french navy was that great. So it probably makes some sense history wise to not give those civs the best water potential.

I didnt even mention History because if this game was historically accurate, French would be the best civ in the game next to Brit, Otto and Russia.
French Navy was the 2nd best next to the British Royal Navy which clearly dominated everything as Intel does vs AMD today (awkward comparison idc). I mean losing vs the best doesnt make you a sh*t.

@ivan
I fucking care because French - and to a lesser Germans - have no chance vs. "schooners civs" on certain maps maps such as Hispaniola, Indochina or Indonesia.

Besides both have a strong late game eco anyway.

Yeah no shit Sherlock, like 100% of the civs.

wait a minute.. I think the Dutch dominated everyone and his mother for at least 25% of the era that aoe3 is set in. On sea and on land.

But yeah then I dont know why france doesnt havr schooners. Also, by that logic, why do russia and ottos have it?

[Goodspeed]

Let's face it schooners was a design error. Should just be removed and boats should cost 50 or 60w for every civ.

[thebritish]

Who is going to code the fanpatch?

[Good ol Ivan]

Let''s face it schooners was a design error. Should just be removed and boats should cost 50 or 60w for every civ.

I feel it went like this
"-100 wood fishing boats John? But that isn''t fair! they gather res slowlier than villies, can''t build, yet you think they should be more expensive? it just doesn''t make any sense...
-Oh come on Bob, they still provide a great eco investment, and otherwise everyone would go for water. There''s no way water economy should be more viable than land economy....
-How about an inbetween. Like, a card which would reduce their cost enough to make fishermen an even better investment than villies!
-That''s not what I meant... Alright alright, I''m running out of ideas for cards. Whatever, what''s the worst that could happen?"

[momuuu]

Let''s face it schooners was a design error. Should just be removed and boats should cost 50 or 60w for every civ.

I suppose that is a decent solution.

[Good ol Ivan]

Lets face it schooners was a design error. Should just be removed and boats should cost 50 or 60w for every civ.

I suppose that is a decent solution.

70 wood and we got a deal. 60 wood still makes it a good enough investment.

[momuuu]

I suppose that is a decent solution.

70 wood and we got a deal. 60 wood still makes it a good enough investment.

isnt 70 wood still more expensive than villagers?

[iNcog]

well the idea behind fishing >should< have been

we're going to give people a tool with which to boom their economy. it's a way to invest into a more eco heavy style. but with schooners, fishing has become an economy by itself, rather than something which boosts your economy

[Good ol Ivan]

70 wood and we got a deal. 60 wood still makes it a good enough investment.

isnt 70 wood still more expensive than villagers?

Its slightly more expensive than villagers if you consider hunting as the base for food gathering. However, fishing boats would be cheaper than villies if we compared food gathering rate of mills/berries (instead of huntables) to base wood cutting rate...
Anyhow, yeah thats the point, I dont want docks to be 200w colonial TCs. With schooners fishing boats become so much more viable than villies (40w = ~65 food).

well the idea behind fishing >'should<' have been

were going to give people a tool with which to boom their economy. its a way to invest into a more eco heavy style. but with schooners, fishing has become an economy by itself, rather than something which boosts your economy

+1

[_venox_]

Normally all eco investments are more expensive than tc villagers as it should be. Think of brits 135 wood for 1 villager, or dutch 700 resource for 4.5 villagers. If fisherboats would be as expensive as a villager and train as fast as a villager, then 1 dock = 1 town centre. This is complete bullshit.

[lemmings121]

Well there''s no way in hell it''ll be done officially.

If it is done officially, the changes will be crappy.

I mean, if we manage to make a patch, that patch somehow has to be made oficial, or not made at all....

ES probably doesnt have a single person inside to talk about balance, the patch changes would have to come from the comunity...

[Good ol Ivan]

Normally all eco investments are more expensive than tc villagers as it should be. Think of brits 135 wood for 1 villager, or dutch 700 resource for 4.5 villagers. If fisherboats would be as expensive as a villager and train as fast as a villager, then 1 dock = 1 town centre. This is complete bullshit.

Exactly.
And what schooners does is making fishing boats way much cheaper than villagers. So you can literally buil d unlimited TCs for 200 wood which train 40 wood (or 65 food) villagers.

[[Armag] diarouga]

Let''s face it schooners was a design error. Should just be removed and boats should cost 50 or 60w for every civ.

+1

[Garja]

you can't make more than 20 boats on most maps or it is an overkill, and the boats start with a lower gathering rate than vills. And fish boom requires a card, while most of other booms don't.

[momuuu]

I feel that a more significant problem of water play is the war ships OPness. Monitors and frigates are just too good. Especially how they allow you to slam down all your buildings near the watee and protect them with your OP boats. Meanwhile you're destroying about every building he has with a monitor.

Id wonder if ifs schooners or the general OP boats causing the problem.

[Good ol Ivan]

I feel that a more significant problem of water play is the war ships OPness. Monitors and frigates are just too good. Especially how they allow you to slam down all your buildings near the watee and protect them with your OP boats. Meanwhile you''re destroying about every building he has with a monitor.

Id wonder if ifs schooners or the general OP boats causing the problem.

Both.
But at least you can counter frigates with culvs.
Monitors in the other hand are fucking broken, imho their limit should be reduced to 1.

[lemmings121]

I feel that a more significant problem of water play is the war ships OPness. Monitors and frigates are just too good. Especially how they allow you to slam down all your buildings near the watee and protect them with your OP boats. Meanwhile youre destroying about every building he has with a monitor.

Id wonder if ifs schooners or the general OP boats causing the problem.

Both.
But at least you can counter frigates with culvs.
Monitors in the other hand are fucking broken, imho their limit should be reduced to 1.

maybe 0

[[Armag] diarouga]

I disagree, you know that monitors are op and will make you win the game. Then just take the water before he reaches age 4, tbh that's not very hard, push with canons+fregates and you will.
Ofc if you try to outboom the water player, you'll loose for sure^^.