IAmSoldieR wrote:Am I missing something? Isn't 400 or 800 dpi super low and slow? Or are they not on the middle windows setting? (For everyone in this topic using that dpi)
Most professional RTS players use low DPI. A lower DPI generally improves your accuracy and in the only professional RTS game in the world, SC2, micro is much more important than in AoE3. I personally use 1600 DPI which suits me fine for AoE3, but theoretically, RTS games require a lower DPI.
The guy who won the latest Korean SC2 tournament uses 350 DPI. The real professionals hardly move their mouse and use camera hotkeys and unit snaps to move their screen. This is less apparent in AoE3.
IAmSoldieR wrote:Exactly, so are you people saying that you and/or this fps people use 6/11 and 400dpi on a standard 1980x1080? That would feel extremely slow
Yes. It only feels slow to you because you are not used to it. If someone would force you to use that for 1 year without being able to switch, you would get accustomed to it too.
captainpouple wrote:Isn't the mouse weight important when talking about dpi ?
Low DPI mice are mostly light-weight, so you can move them around easier since they are slow, high DPI mice are heavier because the cursor is so insanely fast you need weight so you can pinpoint it better.
@Riotcoke plz stop dude, at this point you just seem very ignorant, it hurts.
Big thanks to @gibson for giving correct info.
gibson wrote:Also @Riotcoke if you watch the very video you told me to watch about mouses, he specifically says that dpi has nothing to do with performance, so by your very own video you are wrong.
He points out that the DPI has native points, where the sensor performs better so at the same time as higher dpi to an unlimited amount being better, the native resolution of the mouse is just better. I.e the native DPI for my mouse is 1600 so 800 dpi is just worse than the higher 1600 dpi in terms of accuracy
"Dpi is a translation between how many pixels I travel by one inch, its only this, its not a question of any kind of quality of tracking,its just a relation ship magnification or translation factor"
I'm gonna leave it at that. Basic mathematics principles say you're wrong, common sense says you're wrong, and experts say you're wrong. If that's not enough to change your mind, nothing will. You're welcome to hold your obviously fallacious opinion( I mean if you were actually right pro gamers would set their mouse to high dpi and in game sense low, but that doesn't happen), but please don't try to spread it anymore, as someone who has no knowledge of the issue might be led astray.
IAmSoldieR wrote:Am I missing something? Isn't 400 or 800 dpi super low and slow? Or are they not on the middle windows setting? (For everyone in this topic using that dpi)
IAmSoldieR wrote:Am I missing something? Isn't 400 or 800 dpi super low and slow? Or are they not on the middle windows setting? (For everyone in this topic using that dpi)
Most professional RTS players use low DPI. A lower DPI generally improves your accuracy and in the only professional RTS game in the world, SC2, micro is much more important than in AoE3. I personally use 1600 DPI which suits me fine for AoE3, but theoretically, RTS games require a lower DPI.
The guy who won the latest Korean SC2 tournament uses 350 DPI. The real professionals hardly move their mouse and use camera hotkeys and unit snaps to move their screen. This is less apparent in AoE3.
This is not absolute truth by any mean. As I said, koreans use low DPI partly as an heritage from old SC1 days when mice didn't have customizable DPI. The stock DPI of your average mouse is something around 400 dpi. (This is also why Windows pointer acceleration is usually positive by default).
If we really want to make any generic conclusion on the subject, RTS games require relatively high DPI because the most important factor is agility over precision (still in relative terms), while FPS games require relatively low DPI as you need exact pixel precision for shooting and all the big turn arounds and such are done by moving your whole arm.
aaryngend wrote:Yes. It only feels slow to you because you are not used to it. If someone would force you to use that for 1 year without being able to switch, you would get accustomed to it too
Not really. You feel it slow because with neutral Windows acceleration it simply is slow. 400 dpi and 6/11 ticker means that you need an entire mousepad scroll just to go from side to side on full hd screen. That's surely not very efficient even just for productivity tasks.
Riotcoke wrote:
He points out that the DPI has native points, where the sensor performs better so at the same time as higher dpi to an unlimited amount being better, the native resolution of the mouse is just better. I.e the native DPI for my mouse is 1600 so 800 dpi is just worse than the higher 1600 dpi in terms of accuracy
That's not the same as saying that the higher the better. Mice generally have one native dpi which doesn't requires software induced scaling so it's more reliable. And btw the difference between the native DPI accuracy and all the other ones is absolutely neglectable. Not even the most pro CS player or w/e has probably ever noticed any difference.
Also it's more of a problem with older games, where pixel skipping is actually a problem. Also i did some actual reading rather than going through what i could recall from memory, it's more so that the in-game change in the sensitivity at a higher level, 2.73 in source, ends up with high levels of pixel skipping and therefore leads to lower accuracy overall hence why higher Dpis lead to no pixel skipping which in my eyes is more accurate.
Garja wrote:This is not absolute truth by any mean. As I said, koreans use low DPI partly as an heritage from old SC1 days when mice didn't have customizable DPI. The stock DPI of your average mouse is something around 400 dpi. (This is also why Windows pointer acceleration is usually positive by default).
They use what is best... BW was played on 1024x768. In FullHD, you need to move a lot more to accomplish the same. Why would they gimp themselves only because they are used to something? 400-1600 DPI is all they need. Most sc2 pros do fine with 800dpi, no accel. Fingertrip is kind of a niche grip, I only ever saw rts players with it. Is your hand entirely flat while moving? Or does it bend ?
Garja wrote:If we really want to make any generic conclusion on the subject, RTS games require relatively high DPI because the most important factor is agility over precision (still in relative terms), while FPS games require relatively low DPI as you need exact pixel precision for shooting and all the big turn arounds and such are done by moving your whole arm.
How do RTS games not require precision?! Why would yo say that? Because shooters require more?
Garja wrote:Not really. You feel it slow because with neutral Windows acceleration it simply is slow. 400 dpi and 6/11 ticker means that you need an entire mousepad scroll just to go from side to side on full hd screen. That's surely not very efficient even just for productivity tasks.
Haha so how would you know that ? Did you ever use 400 DPI longer for than a few seconds? It just takes a couple of cms to do that, not an entire mousepad... trust me. The size of my mouse pad is 45cmx40cm. I only swipe for flicks in shooters or rarely in other games. Even then it is not across the whole pad.
The trick to low sens and a large pad is thats you can swipe and just continue where you are, even if it is in another quadrant of the pad. You simply have to lift off the mouse less.
Riotcoke wrote:
gibson wrote:Also @Riotcoke if you watch the very video you told me to watch about mouses, he specifically says that dpi has nothing to do with performance, so by your very own video you are wrong.
He points out that the DPI has native points, where the sensor performs better so at the same time as higher dpi to an unlimited amount being better, the native resolution of the mouse is just better. I.e the native DPI for my mouse is 1600 so 800 dpi is just worse than the higher 1600 dpi in terms of accuracy
Yes, that goes for older mice.. nowadays, almost any mouse has a nice sensor, and all their steps are native... none are interpolated
What you say was true in the past, I remember the first Razer Deathadder having to use 1800 DPI to function best.
aaryngend wrote:
They use what is best... BW was played on 1024x768. In FullHD, you need to move a lot more to accomplish the same. Why would they gimp themselves only because they are used to something? 400-1600 DPI is all they need. Most sc2 pros do fine with 800dpi, no accel. Fingertrip is kind of a niche grip, I only ever saw rts players with it. Is your hand entirely flat while moving? Or does it bend ?
Maybe because...they are used to something?!
Fingertip grip in RTS is the standard. You don't often see goofy grip like Flash has. My hand is not flat. Fingertip grip doesn't have to be completely flat. And anyway it's always a mix of grips, like the one Innovation uses (fingertip/claw).
How do RTS games not require precision?! Why would yo say that? Because shooters require more?
Yes, pretty much. RTS is just about doing correct clicks in sequence. Most of objects are not smaller than 50 pixels so you don't requite that much of accuracy. Speeding across different targets to put the most actions in a time frame is pretty much what you need in RTS.
Haha so how would you know that ? Did you ever use 400 DPI longer for than a few seconds? It just takes a couple of cms to do that, not an entire mousepad... trust me. The size of my mouse pad is 45cmx40cm. I only swipe for flicks in shooters or rarely in other games. Even then it is not across the whole pad.
The trick to low sens and a large pad is thats you can swipe and just continue where you are, even if it is in another quadrant of the pad. You simply have to lift off the mouse less.
I used to use stock mice for years (even in AOE3) before buying a gaming mouse so yes I used lower DPI (I don't think it was as low as 400 tho, maybe 800). And you simply can't use that with Windows acceleration off, not even in Windows environment for daily tasks.
I mean there is a reason why Windows comes with acceleration enabled and every single person in the world who is not a gamer starts using stock mouse with acceleration.
Btw 40x45 cm is a already a big mouse pad. Surely you don't sweap all over the place in RTS with 800 dpi but it's not the same just using your fingertips. Fingertips are just more precise. Just think about wrtiting with a pen.
Any art student will tell you that they teach to draw with the whole hand, not the wrist. IMO there is no argument here, it is the most precise way hence this is also how FPS players play.
I do agree with Garja though that fingertip grip gives good balance of speed and precision for RTS. But then again maybe the faster players in these forums can share their preferences.
POC wrote:Also I most likely know a whole lot more than you.
POC wrote:Also as an objective third party, and near 100% accuracy of giving correct information, I would say my opinions are more reliable than yours.
What I mean is to achieve the most precision (ie how FPS players play), the mouse would stay fixed in palm (not just fingers because then it is not rigid to the arm), so palm grip. Then any movements necessary are done at elbow and shoulder. Obv this requires lower sensitivity and large surface.
I understand what you meant, I just said I disagree with your opinion that finger tipping is more precise. But I do think it is more appropriate for RTS.
POC wrote:Also I most likely know a whole lot more than you.
POC wrote:Also as an objective third party, and near 100% accuracy of giving correct information, I would say my opinions are more reliable than yours.
Gonna have to amend my answer here, because I just sent in an order for G502 Hero and I'll be able to go all the way up to 16000dpi, which is admittedly what I've been using on my laptop mouse for a while already.
@gibson :)
momuuu wrote: ↑theres no way eaglemut is truly a top player
Lol, you nubs.
Higher DPI is absolutely necessary the bigger the screen you use. I have a 32 inch screen (as well as a 32 inch you know what) with a 2K resolution, so without a high DPI my mouse would take half an hour to get from one side of the screen to another. When I bump up the DPI it makes moving the mouse around easier, because higher sensitivity in the sensor setting makes the mouse move over a longer distance on screen even if you make a short move with your hand. Higher DPI doesn't make your clicks more precise, it makes you move your hand less on a big screen with high resolution.
But, as your mouse moves faster on high DPI, you need to make the most of your short hand movements. You need to be more precise.
PS. I just saw the G's post. So yeah, the G knows.
The reason I play on 800 is cause I have a 1440p monitor as my main monitor. When I gamed on a 1080p laptop I used 600, and when I use my 4k monitor for long periods of time sometimes I switch to 1000. The actual size of the monitor doesnt matter lol, just the resolution.
EAGLEMUT wrote:I use 16000dpi on my 1080p laptop.
Now I'm about to go big dpi on my desktop as well (1440p 24"), and there's nothing you can do about it.
President Eaglemut anger translator: fuck u and suck it
Cleaned up my desk and my small keyboard finally arrived. Now going for 800dpi on 1080p.
POC wrote:Also I most likely know a whole lot more than you.
POC wrote:Also as an objective third party, and near 100% accuracy of giving correct information, I would say my opinions are more reliable than yours.
I use 400 dpi on a 24 inch screen at 1080p. That seems much lower than what most of you are using. Do you think I'm handicapping myself or is it more a matter of preference?