Worst matchup in the game
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Worst matchup in the game
Not sure if there's been a thread on this before, couldn't find one at least. Curious to hear everyone's opinions: What do you think is the most one-sided, hopeless civ matchup in the game, and why?
Re: Worst matchup in the game
RE or EP?Kawapasaka wrote:Not sure if there's been a thread on this before, couldn't find one at least. Curious to hear everyone's opinions: What do you think is the most one-sided, hopeless matchup in the game, and why?
Spain vs china on a 3 tp livestock map is my bet on current ep
Otto v dutch on RE imo
Maybe iro v Sioux? Idk i think otto / dutch is still worse
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Re: Worst matchup in the game
Yeah, EP, otherwise I think it would just be a ton of Otto-[civ] and Iro-[civ]dansil92 wrote:RE or EP?Kawapasaka wrote:Not sure if there's been a thread on this before, couldn't find one at least. Curious to hear everyone's opinions: What do you think is the most one-sided, hopeless matchup in the game, and why?
Spain vs china on a 3 tp livestock map is my bet on current ep
Otto v dutch on RE imo
Maybe iro v Sioux? Idk i think otto / dutch is still worse
Map is important too yeah, should specify that I guess.
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Re: Worst matchup in the game
I want to say Spain vs Dutch, bad for Dutch
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Re: Worst matchup in the game
Its only cause most of the people make 5 banks they can't defend instead of max 3 and actually hold the push....deleted_user wrote:I want to say Spain vs Dutch, bad for Dutch
Re: Worst matchup in the game
i would say, azzy vs sioux in safe tp map, just no way to win as azzy.
Re: Worst matchup in the game
Piroshiki vs H2O was always unwinnable for H2O
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Re: Worst matchup in the game
Im having a difficult time coming up with answers (on EP and EP maps) because traditionally "worst MU" means the game is easily lost before it can become outplay-able at equal skill. Tons of hunts and CM and stagecoach maps (and aggro jap) and occasionally 70w boats and more occasionally lots of walls means defenders can defend and aggressors can scale until there is a point either player can outplay, even if disadvantaged. It really becomes map and card dependent, and what the statuses of the natural resources are.
There are lots of "NR 10" EP memes but it adds subtly/finesse to the game, less brute force.
Chess AIs prefer positions with the most possible legal moves.
There are lots of "NR 10" EP memes but it adds subtly/finesse to the game, less brute force.
Chess AIs prefer positions with the most possible legal moves.
Re: Worst matchup in the game
Otto-Sioux maybe, if Sioux goes for the right build and microes well.
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Re: Worst matchup in the game
I'm feeling sioux-china at the moment, personally. Don't even think trying to abuse walls would be useful. Maybe keshiks hold the secrets
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Re: Worst matchup in the game
Possibly, but if China can hold out until both Manchus and repelling volley are in, they stand a chance. Sioux's big engagement is very dependent on open land. China can maybe even semi FI on a livestock map abusing that fact. But Sioux can baby dance with map. But if Sioux baby dances, they could be vulnerable.Kawapasaka wrote:I'm feeling sioux-china at the moment, personally. Don't even think trying to abuse walls would be useful. Maybe keshiks hold the secrets
Let's face it: on EP there may be favorable and unfavorable MUs, but it's so close that the map plays such a huge part in it. MUs aren't so imbalanced that counter strats can't be executed, and that's very important. An unfavorable MU still requires the favored civilization to adapt accordingly to their opponent, and we stray further from MU and more into player experience/ability/unknown factors (like treasuring, scouting).
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Re: Worst matchup in the game
Very true, in hindsight "hopeless" is a bit dramatic of a term to describe something that is realistically, say, 35-65 at the worst. Shouldn't be making too many excuses for losses.deleted_user wrote:Possibly, but if China can hold out until both Manchus and repelling volley are in, they stand a chance. Sioux's big engagement is very dependent on open land. China can maybe even semi FI on a livestock map abusing that fact. But Sioux can baby dance with map. But if Sioux baby dances, they could be vulnerable.Kawapasaka wrote:I'm feeling sioux-china at the moment, personally. Don't even think trying to abuse walls would be useful. Maybe keshiks hold the secrets
Let's face it: on EP there may be favorable and unfavorable MUs, but it's so close that the map plays such a huge part in it. MUs aren't so imbalanced that counter strats can't be executed, and that's very important. An unfavorable MU still requires the favored civilization to adapt accordingly to their opponent, and we stray further from MU and more into player experience/ability/unknown factors (like treasuring, scouting).
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Re: Worst matchup in the game
That's the shtick - nearly every game I lose I know Kaiser or Mitoe or Hazza or someone better could have won it, or me if I was given a do-over.
While I love to complain, it irks me when people complain.
Hmmm, maybe I should apply this to my personal life...
While I love to complain, it irks me when people complain.
Hmmm, maybe I should apply this to my personal life...
Re: Worst matchup in the game
On RE, dutch vs brit is really complicated for dutch I feel
Re: Worst matchup in the game
German spain
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Re: Worst matchup in the game
Port vs iro , port vs china , port vs spain, spain vs india , spain vs german, jap vs aztec, aztec vs sioux
Re: Worst matchup in the game
Jap vs Spain is a huge load of crap imo
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Re: Worst matchup in the game
For whom?jesus3 wrote:Jap vs Spain is a huge load of crap imo
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Re: Worst matchup in the game
I always thought that MU as even
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Re: Worst matchup in the game
I've gotten used to Jap getting steamrolled if Spain strikes early enough, but I could be mistakenKawapasaka wrote:For whom?jesus3 wrote:Jap vs Spain is a huge load of crap imo
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Re: Worst matchup in the game
@AizamkShinkuroYukinari wrote:Portugal vs anything on RE
Fine line to something great is a strange change.
Re: Worst matchup in the game
I feel Japan can win with a very specific build: age 2 double rax ashi in base defense, like 600w 4v 600g CM or 5 ashi or daimyo. All buildings behind TC if possible, wall a bit to delay. Upgrade your vills right before the fight. Focus TC on falcs.jesus3 wrote:I've gotten used to Jap getting steamrolled if Spain strikes early enough, but I could be mistakenKawapasaka wrote:For whom?jesus3 wrote:Jap vs Spain is a huge load of crap imo
Once he is almost underneath your TC, pull all vills to tank, call all MM, flank with ashi and snare with clubs, GG.
If he doesn't push and just booms or masses, follow him asap into ashi Nagi FA.
Re: Worst matchup in the game
Well, yes. A strong musk mass with few cav and villager-pull if necessary is the go-to strat vs Spain with any civ when in doubt tbh. My point is that Jap is fairly slow early on and Spain can push pretty fast with falconets guarded by rods/pikes and hus. I'm not even sure that jap even gets all the shipments you've listed before dying. It's at least a mirror of my struggles as Jap vs Spain. In theory, you know what to do. In reality, Spain strikes way too early
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