disapontment post

[Goodspeed]

The rest of your life? I would hope not. In most real life bullying scenarios you'd have to deal with them for a few years at most. Unless they're in a long term abusive relationship, people don't tend to keep bullies in their lives, online or irl.
This community has existed a lot longer than a few years (it predates ESOC, obviously). Besides, even having to deal with it for a few years is already unacceptable. Can you imagine a bullied kid going to their school counselor and being told "Just deal with it dude, you'll be out of here in 5 years"?

[edeholland]

I'm so happy Goodspeed is still here.

[bobabu]

In the UK we use those words to either close friends or people genuinely we dislike. On the internet its less so to that degree (as you saw with tls its mostly harmless because on eso and discord, hes a normal and nice guy) you do get some exceptions (cassador musket and the nazi spammer) but theyre blatantly obvious that theyre vile human beings.
I know i myself call people like kaiser lukas castete “offensive words” but they know i dont mean it

I say stop hating on @spanky4ever already and start hating on @Hazza54321, he is British.

[91]

I love you all

[Dolan]

Being frequently insulted has the same effect on the internet as in real life: It makes you question your self-worth. If people insult you often, you might start to think something is wrong with you. And that kind of thought can have lasting effects on a person. Words on a screen are words on a screen, and words spoken are words spoken, but they carry weight all the same.

I think this varies per personality and temperament types. I really doubt this is the case for everyone, no matter the context. And since most gamers and people who "socialise online" are typically shy nerds, introverted types, of course they are most likely to agree with you, because what you're describing speaks to their own issues. But that doesn't mean it necessarily applies to the population at large. If you really can't see a clear difference between real life and internet chats, there's nothing I could rationally explain to you that you would eventually agree with. Because this is not about reason, it's about emotionally charged subjects.
There's no real threat behind mere words on a screen, especially when they're written by some anon who doesn't know you at all. Whereas in real life, there's a physical proximity which can indeed create a potential for real threat. That's almost always missing in online chats, where there's no actual real threat and people really don't know you.

And the people who are saying to just leave if you don't like how you're treated in our community (the "close the tab" argument) seem confused about what this community is. We're not a bunch of anonymous people whom you can just replace by joining any other random forum. Many of us know each other well, even met each other irl. Some of us met their SOs here. And we all share a love for AoE3. Saying it's easy to just close the tab is like saying it's easy to leave a relationship that turns abusive.

Oh come on, this is an exaggeration. The number of people from this site who actually met in real life is a minority. And no, simply exchanging replies on a forum or in a Twitch chat does not really make you "part of a community". Sadly in this century, lots of people think that's the case, because that's what they grew up with. They're "in the matrix", so to speak. And that's actually undermining their social skills, because it breeds this mentality that they don't have to socialise much in real life, online socialisation is enough, lol. It keeps them captive in their comfort zone.

We have a very deformed concept of what a community is in this time frame, lol. It's been deformed by more than one decade of the so-called "social web" (web 2.0).

[Challenger_Marco]

I'm so happy Goodspeed is still here.

i would more happy to see jerom back....posting every message with 10k words phenominal guy!

[n0el]

i miss jerom

[Challenger_Marco]

he is back atleast on twitch...hope we see more from him!

[rnmrtzk]

@Dolan
"I think this varies per personality and temperament types. I really doubt this is the case for everyone, no matter the context. And since most gamers and people who "socialise online" are typically shy nerds, introverted types, of course they are most likely to agree with you, because what you're describing speaks to their own issues. But that doesn't mean it necessarily applies to the population at large."

So the population at large loves to live in a stream of insults and slurs? And prefers to inhabit the cozy "locker room"? Of course not all are infacted by trolling and insults in the same way... But really, you enjoy this being an advocatus diaboli way too much I mean, what's so wrong about not being and an asshole and showing some empathy? Where is the need for defending that shit?

[Dolan]

Because it keeps you locked in a morality of pity and entitlement. It keeps you thinking you are owed some kind of status. And that is maladaptive, you shouldn't expect anything from any situation. You should always be ready to adapt and respond optimally to any challenge, rather than expect rules, institutions or others' benevolence to indulge you. This is what's wrong with this age. People trying to build comfortable status cocoons around themselves.

[rnmrtzk]

lol, are you on a bad nietzsche trip? what's so bad about pity and rules?

[SoldieR]

Because it keeps you locked in a morality of pity and entitlement. It keeps you thinking you are owed some kind of status. And that is maladaptive, you shouldn't expect anything from any situation. You should always be ready to adapt and respond optimally to any challenge, rather than expect rules, institutions or others' benevolence to indulge you. This is what's wrong with this age. People trying to build comfortable cocoons around themselves.

Good thing your'e not generalizing. Having a sense of community online doesn't necessarily mean anything about your outside life.

[Riotcoke]

Can we just lock this thread?

[rnmrtzk]

You should always be ready to adapt and respond optimally to any challenge, rather than expect rules, institutions or others' benevolence to indulge you.

btw: this sounds like you are applying some old aoe3 commonplace on real life

[RefluxSemantic]

There's simply things you can do to prevent bullying. For starters, one of the primary reasons for bullying is that other people sort of want to scare you away because they don't want to hang out with you. This is harsh, but sometimes understandable; Sometimes the behaviour of the bullied person is such that people don't want to hang out with that person. Bullying can sort of scare this kinds of people away, which can be considered a beneficial effect. I remember that I never bullied anyone, and were always forced to group up with the weird kids in high school. I distinctly remember the teacher asking me and a friend to group up with this one kid to work on a project because nobody else wanted to and we were nice guys, but then in the first 5 minutes of cooperating this kid made a dozen or so of very nasty unkind remarks. At that point I understood why nobody was nice to him. If he hadn't constantly been so unkind, I don't think people would have been mean to him either.

Also related to this is that it's wise to not try to force your way with some group of people; They might just not like you - and that's their right. If you press the issue, they might try to scare you away by bullying you. I think you need to go out of your way to make sure you are never in this sort of situation. There are many opportunities to find social contacts. You can join sport teams, student associations, go to for example card game stores and play there, even join an internet community. It's healthy to be in a position where you can always just walk away when it turns out a certain group of people doesn't like you and move on to the social basis that you've built. That's what I originally meant by "just ignore them". Of course this is unreasonable if that means being lonely forever, so you need to put in effort to make social contacts. But that's something I believe almost anyone is capable of.

[gibson]

Not even meming dolan actually sounds like a boomer haha " God damn kids these days won't even except being called nigger, back in my day we used to call all the negros nigger and no one said anything"

[Dolan]

I know what you mean, but what I'm saying is a bit different from what boomers say. They say that kind of stuff because they want to imply things like "back in the day, life was tougher and nobody complained, so kids these days need to toughen up" etc etc. (I'm not even gonna say much about the fact that this word "boomers" makes no sense here in Romania, because we didn't go through an economic boom after WW2, we went through half a century of communism and poverty. So, really the only way in which we could have ever experienced what "boomer" means in the USA is through reading about it, it makes absolutely no sense here. We don't have any such older generation that owns and controls everything here, because during communism they were poor as fuck and they didn't even own their apartments. They had to buy them after we got rid of communism.)

But what I'm saying kinda applies to everything that followed the French revolution, the whole idea of human rights, social emancipation, blablabla. So I'm deffo not talking only about the boomers' period of time. Which btw, was pretty mellow considering it was the post-war era, when everyone was busy reaping the benefits of peacetime booming economics. So boomers actually didn't live through tough times, as they think they did, they just have this impression, because their kids and grandkids are making a big fuss about post-materialistic values, like climate and gender flavours.

What I'm questioning is this sheep mentality that you are owed something by an institution, by other people's benevolence, by the fucking United Nations. As if, if tomorrow any of these institutions crumbled, or if your "rights" were gone, you'd have no idea how to get them back by fighting for them again, just like your ancestors did. If you forgot that spirit, maybe you deserve to lose them one day.

[rnmrtzk]

yeah, like in aoe3: if you have no idea how to rush hard in colonial, you may not deserve this decadent tp-boom, semi-ff-meta...

[jesus3]

At this point I don't know what you are talking about, Dolan. Are you talking about some scenario of complete anarchy for the whole world looming around the corner? If yes, what makes you think so? If I understood you correctly, then we should abandon all institutions, all social progress for... its' own sake? Why is it a negative thing for you to care about post-materialistic values in a post-materialistic society?
You know what would really make your/our ancestors angry? Abandoning the progress they've made.

[Cometk]

yeah, like in aoe3: if you have no idea how to rush hard in colonial, you may not deserve this decadent tp-boom, semi-ff-meta...

post of the year

[Dolan]

Why is it a negative thing for you to care about post-materialistic values in a post-materialistic society?

Because they're not built on resilience, they're built on dependence on comfort. If you grow up in comfort, you become less competitive, you become complacent and self-entitled. Pretty much like rich people's offspring.

You know what would really make your/our ancestors angry? Abandoning the progress they've made.

I'm not sure I'd care about their opinion. Though, I'd surely be interested in studying their reactions to current times. Their opinions would probably be anachronistic af, though.

[fightinfrenchman]

If you grow up in comfort, you become less competitive, you become complacent and self-entitled.

Therefore, I should be allowed to call people slurs. Thank you for coming to my TED Talk

[rnmrtzk]

Had this community ever thought about a format called “TAD Talk“?

[Dolan]

If you grow up in comfort, you become less competitive, you become complacent and self-entitled.

Therefore, I should be allowed to call people slurs. Thank you for coming to my TED Talk

>slurs

Wtf is a slur anyway, a word? Thank fuck I live in a historical age when I can destroy someone by just saying a word, lmao. Also, thank you baby jesus for living in an age in which meekness, offence-taking and moral conformism are the norm.

>TED talks
lol

[spanky4ever]

@spanky4ever i know how disappointing it can be for you with the TWC tournament. But you need to think about what happened behind everything. The whole team is working without a payment and try there best!
I know out of my own experience how much work it is to keep a lot of content coming. Please do not blame the esoc team. It's making me really sad to read this from you. I hope you try to understand what happens behind or ask gentle questions why things are not in the way you would like to see things. Or help maybe for a few days and you will see what the media team has to do.

For the twitch chat you might be right. I'm not following streams atm. Out of my experience, stuff like this can always happen on the Internet. Don't let it come close to you. It's the best way to deal with it and ignore them.

You are right, I was really angry when I made this thread. I do appreciate the staff who work without any pay, but still, I am disappointed in how little announcement it has gotten. I mean, would it be super hard to just put the games that are going to be streamed, on the front page (down in the right corner)?

About the twitch chat, I wish that some streamers would be less forgiving for all the shit talk that has been going on over the last weeks. I do mean, that it has become worse, - because some streamers allow C and N-words (etc etc). The random flaming of ppl and namecalling is just out of control, IMO. Some ppl are especially getting targeted by some trolls, - and I believe I am one of those.