deleted_user0 Really, I have wondered the same. Was there any reason except comfort for choosing UK?Dolan wrote:If someone set this up in Eastern Europe, it would have been 5 times cheaper and since the revenue from subs would be the same no matter where the studio/office were hosted, you'd have cheap Eastern Euro costs and the same revenue.
Location arbitrage, bitches.
Lol they got 500+ subs from NWC and our community is 1/10 the size of the AoE2 community. I'm not saying 1500 was an easy goal, but it wasn't a huge stretch either.Astaroth wrote:Goodspeed wrote:That they wouldn't get enough subscribers to stay afloat wasn't set in stone at all, so I don't know why you guys are pretending it was "obvious". With a better format for the ECL I think the LAN event could've done much better and they might've actually ended up with the amount of subs they needed. Retaining them and gaining more could've been doable as well, with the right follow up. The AoE community may not be big, but it's old (which means relatively wealthy compared to other gaming communities). It could've worked. You can't "run the numbers" on how many subs you're going to get from hosting a LAN event. You can take a wild guess and try your best, that's about it.
Ofc you can make an educated guess based on the amount of subs and views your channel ans other channels got before for at least comparable events:
1. Amount of viewers (prerequisite for even getting subs): no channel has ever gotten a huge amount of views just off the bat, no matter how good the event was.the by far biggest stream numbers till now (excluding non-aoe streamers) were achieved by longtime aoe2 streamers who did massive promotions for their respective events (t90, nili aoe). There was just no basis whatsoever to assume that the ECL lan would hit anywhere near the required, lets say 10k at least viewers, considering that the Eacqpe twitch channel had comparatively few views and subs.
High viewer numbers are firstly due to constamt viewership over time and much less about event quality. Im sure a random t90 tourney would get more views than the best Lan ever on an unknown channel.
2. There was also no reason to assume they would get that many new subs suddenly. No other event with way more (!) viewers has ever gotten that many new subs right off the bat. Not even close.
3. All the events that garnered a lot of new subs mostly resulted in gifted 1 month subs. Those are not sustainable, unless you have constant, high quality content. And even then they will decrease. Every other aoe2 streamer has had this experience.
All of these factors combined show that there was basicslly no chance in hell to get the amount of subs needed on a permanent basis. Ofc you can now claim, but oh, this was a completely different animal, you can't compare it. But really, there was zero evidence for it.
Why would 1,5k viewers randomly subsribe to a quite small aoe2 channel, just due to one Lan, which cant even be expected to get that many views due to lacking a permanent viewership, when even in the past nothing like has ever remotely happened, even on much bigger, more popular channely with 24/7 new streams and content?
ECL had teamgames and the crowd was bigger, so obviously there was still extra work to be done. There was also a bunch of overlap though, for example the network infrastructure, camera and audio setups, etcetera.But they didn't set up everything at the start. They set up stuff for NWC, thrn later they seemingly started prep for ECL from scratch because they were only busy with that for weeks.
You could ask me that question. You could also make a bunch of assumptions and argue they did it all wrong. Or you can admit you don't know even half of the factors that went into the decision and should probably be a little more reserved in your judgment.They rented that place for months, yet didnt set up basically anything for a long time there. Maybe they couldnt, sure - but then why rent the place all the time?
RefluxSemantic 
harcha I live in eastern bloc and I don't know anyone else who has interest in aoe3. Then again i don't know anyone (period)somppukunkku wrote:Really, I have wondered the same. Was there any reason except comfort for choosing UK?
I don't think it would be too hard to find staff who speak in English in Eastern-Europe and everything is multiple times cheaper.
POC wrote:Also I most likely know a whole lot more than you.
POC wrote:Also as an objective third party, and near 100% accuracy of giving correct information, I would say my opinions are more reliable than yours.
RefluxSemantic Why do you need to sugarcoat the truth? Why do we need to describe a failed business as something we are thankful for? Life is hard, and the sooner you accept that the better off you are.japanesegeneral wrote:Like you could probably know that. Just shut the fuck up man. Be happy that it happened and be thankful for all the great memories from the lan. Don't pretend to know anything since you don't.RefluxSemantic wrote:The mistakes were indeed obvious. When a draft calculation of the finances already shows that its a bad idea, you dont really need to go any deeper. And you can always claim its easy talking in hindsight, but this is 100% something you should do whenever you want to invest. It needs to at least seem to be profitable or sustainable. EscapeTV didnt have any indications of it being sustainable..
RefluxSemantic Why do you support people trying to ruin their life? Would you support someone who's pointing a gun at his own head? "He actually did something when he got to chance to do so!!"91 wrote:Esoc is filled with entrepreneurs but the fact is that these guys actually did something when they got the chance, and I appreciate their contribution a lot more than the besserwisser comments in this thread.
Does it really matter that much to you that they didn't follow the advice you gave them when they started? (I can only assume you did) It was their project, their rules. if you want it done your way you should start your own.
Lets show some respect for what good stuff they did by practice giving good constructive feedback (hint, it normally includes some positive parts too). But lets keep in mind that they didn't even ask for it and they probably know everything you're gonna say and much more becaused they LIVED through the project and its result.
lol come on, dont give me that bull. You dont give a chip about their lives. Your comments here dont make a difference to them, the project is over now. If you truly cared you'd send them a PMRefluxSemantic wrote:Why do you support people trying to ruin their life? Would you support someone who's pointing a gun at his own head? "He actually did something when he got to chance to do so!!"91 wrote:Esoc is filled with entrepreneurs but the fact is that these guys actually did something when they got the chance, and I appreciate their contribution a lot more than the besserwisser comments in this thread.
Does it really matter that much to you that they didn't follow the advice you gave them when they started? (I can only assume you did) It was their project, their rules. if you want it done your way you should start your own.
Lets show some respect for what good stuff they did by practice giving good constructive feedback (hint, it normally includes some positive parts too). But lets keep in mind that they didn't even ask for it and they probably know everything you're gonna say and much more becaused they LIVED through the project and its result.
japanesegeneral Do you seriously think a thing such as "the truth" would exist? If so tell me more about that concept. I like how you pretend to know everything from an ex-post perspective. You do not know any detail about it yet you spend so much time pretending like you had a clue how things could have gone well. You were not there at the time you do not know any of the circumstances, yet you instist on knowing enough. Saying it was a great tournament is not sugarcoating at all. Many people really liked the event. How do you guys pretend to know the draft calculations? That is just dumb to assume. There is a reason it was a high risk investment. Maybe you should revisit econ 101...RefluxSemantic wrote:Why do you need to sugarcoat the truth?japanesegeneral wrote:Like you could probably know that. Just shut the fuck up man. Be happy that it happened and be thankful for all the great memories from the lan. Don't pretend to know anything since you don't.RefluxSemantic wrote:The mistakes were indeed obvious. When a draft calculation of the finances already shows that its a bad idea, you dont really need to go any deeper. And you can always claim its easy talking in hindsight, but this is 100% something you should do whenever you want to invest. It needs to at least seem to be profitable or sustainable. EscapeTV didnt have any indications of it being sustainable..
RefluxSemantic Im just pointing out that its ridiculous to praise people for their selfdestructive behaviour.91 wrote:lol come on, dont give me that bull. You dont give a chip about their lives. Your comments here dont make a difference to them, the project is over now. If you truly cared you'd send them a PMRefluxSemantic wrote:Why do you support people trying to ruin their life? Would you support someone who's pointing a gun at his own head? "He actually did something when he got to chance to do so!!"91 wrote:Esoc is filled with entrepreneurs but the fact is that these guys actually did something when they got the chance, and I appreciate their contribution a lot more than the besserwisser comments in this thread.
Does it really matter that much to you that they didn't follow the advice you gave them when they started? (I can only assume you did) It was their project, their rules. if you want it done your way you should start your own.
Lets show some respect for what good stuff they did by practice giving good constructive feedback (hint, it normally includes some positive parts too). But lets keep in mind that they didn't even ask for it and they probably know everything you're gonna say and much more becaused they LIVED through the project and its result.
They chose UK because they live in the UK. And obviously this gave them a job casting games.somppukunkku wrote:Really, I have wondered the same. Was there any reason except comfort for choosing UK?Dolan wrote:If someone set this up in Eastern Europe, it would have been 5 times cheaper and since the revenue from subs would be the same no matter where the studio/office were hosted, you'd have cheap Eastern Euro costs and the same revenue.
Location arbitrage, bitches.
I don't think it would be too hard to find staff who speak in English in Eastern-Europe and everything is multiple times cheaper.
japanesegeneral Your just jealous because these guys had something most guys will never have but always aspire:a heroic journey. A male dream that does not come true anymore in the 21st century.RefluxSemantic wrote:Im just pointing out that its ridiculous to praise people for their selfdestructive behaviour.91 wrote:lol come on, dont give me that bull. You dont give a chip about their lives. Your comments here dont make a difference to them, the project is over now. If you truly cared you'd send them a PMShow hidden quotes
japanesegeneral Lol. Thats so funny. These four are extraordinary people. Each one of them as talent beyond my imagination in storytelling. Not everyone has that gift. People would not have made anywhere near those numbers of viewers. Also eastern european are really terrible to listen to. Who would have played in tourney where the price is getting an invitation to eastern europe? Probably only half the top level players.Dolan wrote:They chose UK because they live in the UK. And obviously this gave them a job casting games.somppukunkku wrote:Really, I have wondered the same. Was there any reason except comfort for choosing UK?Dolan wrote:If someone set this up in Eastern Europe, it would have been 5 times cheaper and since the revenue from subs would be the same no matter where the studio/office were hosted, you'd have cheap Eastern Euro costs and the same revenue.
Location arbitrage, bitches.
I don't think it would be too hard to find staff who speak in English in Eastern-Europe and everything is multiple times cheaper.
But if someone from Eastern Europe, say Eaglemut or Harcha, got that capital from that guy, they could have lasted the project a few years until it would have started making money. Renting in the UK a whole warehouse to set up a permanent studio is just a crazy business choice. All Anglo countries have super-expensive real estate, among the most expensive in the world.
You'd also have super-fast and cheap internet in Eastern Europe and not so many costs related to getting a license for everything like in the UK.
RefluxSemantic If only I could be so heroic and take the opportunity to waste so much money and time!japanesegeneral wrote:Your just jealous because these guys had something most guys will never have but always aspire:a heroic journey. A male dream that does not come true anymore in the 21st century.RefluxSemantic wrote:Im just pointing out that its ridiculous to praise people for their selfdestructive behaviour.Show hidden quotes
japanesegeneral You should really retake econ 101.RefluxSemantic wrote:If only I could be so heroic and take the opportunity to waste so much money and time!japanesegeneral wrote:Your just jealous because these guys had something most guys will never have but always aspire:a heroic journey. A male dream that does not come true anymore in the 21st century.Show hidden quotes
It's not your money, why do you careRefluxSemantic wrote:If only I could be so heroic and take the opportunity to waste so much money and time!japanesegeneral wrote:Your just jealous because these guys had something most guys will never have but always aspire:a heroic journey. A male dream that does not come true anymore in the 21st century.Show hidden quotes
japanesegeneral Unfortunately nobody believes in your talent. All you can do is waste your own moneyRefluxSemantic wrote:If only I could be so heroic and take the opportunity to waste so much money and time!japanesegeneral wrote:Your just jealous because these guys had something most guys will never have but always aspire:a heroic journey. A male dream that does not come true anymore in the 21st century.Show hidden quotes
fightinfrenchman 
If you set up a LAN tourney in Romania I promise I will comeDolan wrote:If someone set this up in Eastern Europe, it would have been 5 times cheaper and since the revenue from subs would be the same no matter where the studio/office were hosted, you'd have cheap Eastern Euro costs and the same revenue.
Location arbitrage, bitches.
RefluxSemantic I might just not be as smart as you, but I fail to see how you baselessly insulting me makes escapeTV (you know, the startup that caused 4 people to be unemployed and wasted tons of money on renting a warehouse and buying equipment) a heroic journey.japanesegeneral wrote:Unfortunately nobody believes in your talent. All you can do is waste your one moneyRefluxSemantic wrote:If only I could be so heroic and take the opportunity to waste so much money and time!Show hidden quotes
RefluxSemantic I do not know the exact structure or how it went down, but I think the people that started this have been negligent by not properly assessing the viability of the project. Unless every participant was equally negligent, there are people to blame. These people are then responsible for not only wasting their own money, but also causing harm to the others involved. I don't know about your morals, but even by law negligence is actually something that you can sue someone for. So I care in the sense that I uphold normal western moral values.91 wrote:It's not your money, why do you careRefluxSemantic wrote:If only I could be so heroic and take the opportunity to waste so much money and time!Show hidden quotes
Riotcoke 
Nobody wants to go to the shit part of Europe for a lan event. Also none of the players are from Eastern Europe so flight costs end up being more expensive. Overall the benefit isn't worth it especially when you regard non-monetary aspects such as the negativity on the brand that comes from not being in a western European country.Dolan wrote:If someone set this up in Eastern Europe, it would have been 5 times cheaper and since the revenue from subs would be the same no matter where the studio/office were hosted, you'd have cheap Eastern Euro costs and the same revenue.
Location arbitrage, bitches.
Emigrating is allowed you know, it could have been the same team working in Eastern Europe. Then for the public, most of them didn't come from the UK so I would say the place doesn't matter too much, especially since the distance to ger/france is about the same and this are the biggest countries for aoe3.japanesegeneral wrote:Lol. Thats so funny. These four are extraordinary people. Each one of them as talent beyond my imagination in storytelling. Not everyone has that gift. People would not have made anywhere near those numbers of viewers. Also eastern european are really terrible to listen to. Who would have played in tourney where the price is getting an invitation to eastern europe? Probably only half the top level players.Dolan wrote:They chose UK because they live in the UK. And obviously this gave them a job casting games.Show hidden quotes
But if someone from Eastern Europe, say Eaglemut or Harcha, got that capital from that guy, they could have lasted the project a few years until it would have started making money. Renting in the UK a whole warehouse to set up a permanent studio is just a crazy business choice. All Anglo countries have super-expensive real estate, among the most expensive in the world.
You'd also have super-fast and cheap internet in Eastern Europe and not so many costs related to getting a license for everything like in the UK.
vardar Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 9 guests
Which top 10 players do you wish to see listed?
Which streams do you wish to see listed?
