The thread about hand cavalry

[Hazza54321]

Or the fight at 2:02:35 , i know theres some trees but realistically 15 vet huss should kill more than 1 gurkha its fucking 3.4k res, its stupid that this game favours just spamming ranged shit like bots.

To be fair, what's also going on is that you have a bunch of essentially useless ruyters here. Also, India had really strong Gurka, with a 10/10% upgrade and a mansabar unit in the mix, which made the fight deceptively close. If all those ruyters had been skirms and hussars you'd have cleaned up though. I think this is also partially an example of just not having the critical mass of hussars.

True the 2nd fight had too many ruyter but realistically that many res into huss should kill at least a few gurkhas before going down not complete wiped. I didn’t expect to get the best trade, just to wittle down some of the gurkhas. If you think how much res those huss are compared to gurkha and zamb youd think theyd kill more than 1 gurkha positioning or not.

[tedere12]

you should pull back the hus and take free shots on the clubs that walk in front of yumi mass.

Every time you do that you lose 2 huss to yumi dps

hus are supposed to tank ranged infantry shots lol and skirms do really well at picking heavy infantry. Ik yumi are strong but no point in exaggerating

[Guigs]

you should pull back the hus and take free shots on the clubs that walk in front of yumi mass.

Every time you do that you lose 2 huss to yumi dps

hus are supposed to tank ranged infantry shots lol and skirms do really well at picking heavy infantry. Ik yumi are strong but no point in exaggerating

I agree with you but yumi type units are exceptions, same with carded forest prowlers and longbows to some extend

[chronique]

This first its more becouse of yumi, rather becouse of cav sux imo. Yumi have too hight dps vs cav for theirs cost (like RI from nilla for old peaple )

[Mitoe]

Really Yumi don’t do that much damage to cav until you get upgrades like Yumi Attack. I don’t think that was really the issue.

[RefluxSemantic]

Just because we shouldn't let confirmation bias run wild:

A fight with hussars that goes well despite you being very far behind in army population.

[chronique]

Really Yumi don’t do that much damage to cav until you get upgrades like Yumi Attack. I don’t think that was really the issue.

Yumi are better than any other HI vs cav during the whole game, and more the yumi are upg more they are good (and they can be upg a lot).

[dansil92]

I have to say this is a really good thread to read over!

My experience with hand cav into goon skirm is primarily iro, where you can abuse their three powerful cav shipments and stack them up until you can take a good engagement, all without killing your stable production. Though, once your prowlers are carded you hardly need any musket riders it seems...

I shall have to practice kaisers micro tips on cav surround

[Hazza54321]

It went well because of the 5 strads flank tbh he didn’t expect them from there and even then i lost it once the mil pop evened out

[Hazza54321]

Really Yumi don’t do that much damage to cav until you get upgrades like Yumi Attack. I don’t think that was really the issue.

Yumi are better than any other HI vs cav during the whole game, and more the yumi are upg more they are good (and they can be upg a lot).

Can you explain more stuff to him that he doesnt know already hes very noob

[deleted_user0]

I have always argued that goon-type units are too dominant in AOE3. Maybe remove 0.5x from multiplier vs cav. This would obviously make cav more significant which could result adding HI as anticav and more diverse unit comps.

[iamturk]

Theoretically Skirm Goon > Skirm cav goon i dont see how skirm cav goon beats skirm goon. In my experience its always best to switch cav after fighting since u will snipe the anticav. Also before the fight just bait with the cav to kill anticav and then you can go in at some point.

[RefluxSemantic]

Theoretically Skirm Goon > Skirm cav goon i dont see how skirm cav goon beats skirm goon. In my experience its always best to switch cav after fighting since u will snipe the anticav. Also before the fight just bait with the cav to kill anticav and then you can go in at some point.

This is also my preferred strategy. It seems like a good compromise for me not having much skill.

[Guigs]

I have always argued that goon-type units are too dominant in AOE3. Maybe remove 0.5x from multiplier vs cav. This would obviously make cav more significant which could result adding HI as anticav and more diverse unit comps.

More musk type units

[Garja]

Yeah I probably overmicro’d but honestly those clubs are so good vs cav that you kinda need to pull some back. I was still expecting to kill at least 1 yumi though for my 4.5k res investment, shoulda just made 5 falcs.

Clubs are indeed good, they have the same stats of Aztec puma lancer. They hav 10%rr tho which means cav do full damage vs them. Another reason to keep your cav fighting.

Yeah I probably overmicro’d but honestly those clubs are so good vs cav that you kinda need to pull some back. I was still expecting to kill at least 1 yumi though for my 4.5k res investment, shoulda just made 5 falcs.

everything in his compo is good vs cav ahah just ridiculous how a mass of yumi dps all your cav while you can sack 80% of the anti cav

Yes but this is much more true vs huss. Vs better cav it's not quite like that.

Theoretically Skirm Goon > Skirm cav goon i dont see how skirm cav goon beats skirm goon. In my experience its always best to switch cav after fighting since u will snipe the anticav. Also before the fight just bait with the cav to kill anticav and then you can go in at some point.

In theory it's the opposite. 3 unit combo wins. In practice cav switch often fails. Then again it's more about player's fault. Skirm-cav alone if played aggressively from early already beats skirm-goon since it's the direct counter.

[Hazza54321]

In practice though skirm cav doesnt really beat skirm goon due to the sheer cost of cav means other dude has more skirms. Some good kiting and hes bound to get a good trade.

[iamturk]

I can agree 5 cav 5 skirms beats 5 goon 5 skirm because u dont have enough dps to kill cav. If numbers are low Skirm cav beats Skirm goon but higher numbers skir goon just owns skir cav.

[Guigs]

In practice though skirm cav doesnt really beat skirm goon due to the sheer cost of cav means other dude has more skirms. Some good kiting and hes bound to get a good trade.

I think it's more about the follow up, skirm cav dude will reduce the number or opponent skirm while having his own mass of skirms untouched. So I guess you end up with skirm vs goon mostly but yeah in practice it doesn't seem to be a good trade cost wise

[Hazza54321]

Yeah i get that but like you said its usually a bad trade. Also lets not forget that leaves you open to be cav’d when your huss mass dies as basically youd only have skirms left , maybe a max 10 goons otw .

[Hazza54321]

so am i the only one who thinks hand cav should be buffed in general or?

[kaister]

do age 2 boyars Cossacks need a buff? no. does anything else against full yumi get deleted? yes.

[Garja]

so am i the only one who thinks hand cav should be buffed in general or?

I think you are. Honestly on TAD hand cav is very dominant.

[Hazza54321]

https://clips.twitch.tv/PatientSparklingGarlicHeyGuys

Perfect line, no pathing issues 30 high dps infantry in the back. Lose 7 cav but killed about 2 yumis. Still dont know if im doing something wrong.

[Garja]

If you look at it your infantry shoots the explorer then the sentries. Cav does some work but they bump into each other (and they get trolled by the sentries). Also consulate huss have almost no range resistance.
In general you need more cav than that for a clean up. You would have cleaned up if infantry was shooting the yumis all the time.

[howlingwolfpaw]

I think the problem is that skirms are too fast when running away from hand cav. Hand cav should either snare infantry (not HI) or give a bonus on each attack if unit has its back to it. This basically makes cav very inefficient as it has to chase down its enemy that can walk and reload (really bad mechanic, do skirms need a reload animation like bows have? maybe yes but make it after the shot not before) at the same time to turn n shoot or just run from cav that should be 2-3 times as fast as skirms vs the 50% speed they get. If however they choose to stay and fight, cav do very well vs everything except HI.

Another problem is crackshot.... India can lose huge investment for cheesy mechanic.