Does EP German sacrifice too much for their free uhlans?
Re: Does EP German sacrifice too much for their free uhlans?
If native sites give XP now that might be pretty good and different for Germans though? I don't think many high level players will like it, but it's an XP trickle that helps out and it opens options up because now you can make natives too. That doesn't seem so bad. As long as the native site is actually worth the 200w investment.
It's pretty different but why not?
It's pretty different but why not?
-
- Pro Player
- Posts: 10278
- Joined: Jun 6, 2015
- Location: Paris
- GameRanger ID: 5529322
Re: Does EP German sacrifice too much for their free uhlans?
It's not worth getting the nat post only for the xp, you have to make use of it too. In many situations germany isn't a civ that wants to go nats. Sometimes it's nice yes
LoOk_tOm wrote:I have something in particular against Kaisar (GERMANY NOOB mercenary LAMME FOREVER) And the other people (noobs) like suck kaiser ... just this ..
-
- Retired Contributor
- Posts: 1904
- Joined: Feb 11, 2015
Re: Does EP German sacrifice too much for their free uhlans?
Yea, this was the exact change I suggest 3-4 years ago in the internal EP discussion. I liked it because it helps retain German's strength on no TP maps where as every other change weakens then on no TP and doesn't affect the civ bonus.Major_dark wrote:TO my mind, the biggest balance problem with this civ exist when you tp 1st. Why not put the price at 250w ONLY for this civ? I think for instance that french tp 1st vs german tp in transition is still quite fair no?
Regardless they are balanced (ish) now, just in a different way.
Download ESOC Taunt Package : http://eso-community.net/viewtopic.php?f=33&t=7250
Re: Does EP German sacrifice too much for their free uhlans?
Totally agree with this. You should weaken their fortress shipments. They are just too strong but before the fortress age, Germany shouldn't be changed. It's stupid that their go-to strategy is always hitting the fortress age and then hit a timing where they can do enough damage to win the game in the long run.Kaiserklein wrote:Yeah reducing the number of free uhlans would have been an easier way to balance the civ. And it has been discussed a billion times, but instead, we get weird shit because apparently design is more important than balance
-
- Pro Player
- Posts: 8049
- Joined: May 4, 2015
- ESO: PrinceofBabu
Re: Does EP German sacrifice too much for their free uhlans?
Yea i dont see how making their core unit unusable in fights can be good for the game or civ
Re: Does EP German sacrifice too much for their free uhlans?
Aren't ulhans only -5 hp at the moment?
-
- Pro Player
- Posts: 8049
- Joined: May 4, 2015
- ESO: PrinceofBabu
Re: Does EP German sacrifice too much for their free uhlans?
Theyve been -10hp for like 2+ yearsGarja wrote:Aren't ulhans only -5 hp at the moment?
Re: Does EP German sacrifice too much for their free uhlans?
All Fortress Age shipments come with 3 Uhlans, so yes â dozens and dozens. Even if we disregard that fact, it's easier to make one change than to make five.Kaiserklein wrote:"dozens of shipments" lol. It's like 5 fortress unit shipments or so.
Do I have to explain why reducing the amount of uhlans (or units) is logical since the problem was germany having too many units? Alternatives like xp penalty and uhlan hp are definitely weirder.
And how isn't it easier to change 5 shipments than to change uhlan HP (tried 185 too) and xp penalty?
Do I have to explain that the problem is the civilization's performance against others, not any one feature, and why it's illogical to address this issue by making the civilization more like others? How many times do Goodspeed and myself have to explain this before you stop acting like we haven't? There's nothing weird about nerfing Uhlan hitpoints, and I actually agree with you that an xp penalty is weirdâit's just that the civilization has always had one.
Like I've said again and again: I would consider even nerfing the number of Uhlans shipments give, but I would consider less undesirable options first. Thats all.
P.S. Sorry for not getting back to you on this particular post, until now.
Re: Does EP German sacrifice too much for their free uhlans?
How would you do that, without keeping the civilization overpowered??? It's as if you haven't read any previous posts on the topic. Try these:bobabu wrote:Totally agree with this. You should weaken their fortress shipments. They are just too strong but before the fortress age, Germany shouldn't be changed. It's stupid that their go-to strategy is always hitting the fortress age and then hit a timing where they can do enough damage to win the game in the long run.Kaiserklein wrote:Yeah reducing the number of free uhlans would have been an easier way to balance the civ. And it has been discussed a billion times, but instead, we get weird shit because apparently design is more important than balance
viewtopic.php?f=80&t=19679&start=50#p430139
viewtopic.php?f=80&t=19679&start=50#p427103
viewtopic.php?f=80&t=19679&start=50
It's a shame that the civilization was ever given "The Exiled Prince", though. Otherwise, we'd not be having this discussion in the first place.
Re: Does EP German sacrifice too much for their free uhlans?
Bug fix: remove exiled prince
- harcha
- Gendarme
- Posts: 5136
- Joined: Jul 2, 2015
- ESO: hatamoto_samurai
Re: Does EP German sacrifice too much for their free uhlans?
Bug fix 2: remove quartermaster
POC wrote:Also I most likely know a whole lot more than you.
POC wrote:Also as an objective third party, and near 100% accuracy of giving correct information, I would say my opinions are more reliable than yours.
Re: Does EP German sacrifice too much for their free uhlans?
zoom wrote:How would you do that, without keeping the civilization overpowered??? It's as if you haven't read any previous posts on the topic. Try these:bobabu wrote:Agree with this. You should weaken their fortress shipments. They are just too strong but before the fortress age, Germany shouldn't be changed. It's stupid that their go-to strategy is always hitting the fortress age and then hit a timing where they can do enough damage to win the game in the long run.Kaiserklein wrote:Yeah reducing the number of free uhlans would have been an easier way to balance the civ. And it has been discussed a billion times, but instead, we get weird shit because apparently design is more important than balance
viewtopic.php?f=80&t=19679&start=50#p430139
viewtopic.php?f=80&t=19679&start=50#p427103
viewtopic.php?f=80&t=19679&start=50
It's a shame that the civilization was ever given "The Exiled Prince", though. Otherwise, we'd not be having this discussion in the first place.
You are honestly not the right person to judge, you simply lack game knowledge to do so. And Goodspeed hasn't played actively as well. That's why we got in this mess in the first place. Now you are making a correct argument by saying the civilizations should keep their uniqueness. But by rendering the uhlans useless you stirp them of the uniqueness they once had. You should listen to the best players in the game right now. Kaiserklein and Hazza are better than goodspeed ever was and they don't share your opinion. Now if you are so keen on keeping the 3 uhlans why not reduce the number of skirmishers you get with the 7 skrim shipment and instead of 3 war wagons 2. Ofc you can't leave the 9 Uhlans untouched. It probably should be reduced to 7. You could argue that I am basing my suggestions not on playtesting, randomly, but so do you. Get Hazza and Kaiserklein on board and try changing the age 3 shipments, I do believe that it is the right way to go forward.
And btw with your arrogance, you completely forget about team games. Making uhlans useless completely changed their team game capabilities. By changing cards that are mostly used in 1v1to begin with you keep their team game alive.
-
- Musketeer
- Posts: 98
- Joined: Jul 22, 2017
- ESO: 2ndLastKnight
Re: Does EP German sacrifice too much for their free uhlans?
You're right, if Germany got 2 uhlans with every Fortress shipment it'd basically turn into a clone of France or Spain.zoom wrote:All Fortress Age shipments come with 3 Uhlans, so yes â dozens and dozens. Even if we disregard that fact, it's easier to make one change than to make five.Kaiserklein wrote:"dozens of shipments" lol. It's like 5 fortress unit shipments or so.
Do I have to explain why reducing the amount of uhlans (or units) is logical since the problem was germany having too many units? Alternatives like xp penalty and uhlan hp are definitely weirder.
And how isn't it easier to change 5 shipments than to change uhlan HP (tried 185 too) and xp penalty?
Do I have to explain that the problem is the civilization's performance against others, not any one feature, and why it's illogical to address this issue by making the civilization more like others? How many times do Goodspeed and myself have to explain this before you stop acting like we haven't? There's nothing weird about nerfing Uhlan hitpoints, and I actually agree with you that an xp penalty is weirdâit's just that the civilization has always had one.
Like I've said again and again: I would consider even nerfing the number of Uhlans shipments give, but I would consider less undesirable options first. Thats all.
P.S. Sorry for not getting back to you on this particular post, until now.
- harcha
- Gendarme
- Posts: 5136
- Joined: Jul 2, 2015
- ESO: hatamoto_samurai
Re: Does EP German sacrifice too much for their free uhlans?
not sure if sarcasmcharlemango wrote:You're right, if Germany got 2 uhlans with every Fortress shipment it'd basically turn into a clone of France or Spain.zoom wrote:All Fortress Age shipments come with 3 Uhlans, so yes â dozens and dozens. Even if we disregard that fact, it's easier to make one change than to make five.Kaiserklein wrote:"dozens of shipments" lol. It's like 5 fortress unit shipments or so.
Do I have to explain why reducing the amount of uhlans (or units) is logical since the problem was germany having too many units? Alternatives like xp penalty and uhlan hp are definitely weirder.
And how isn't it easier to change 5 shipments than to change uhlan HP (tried 185 too) and xp penalty?
Do I have to explain that the problem is the civilization's performance against others, not any one feature, and why it's illogical to address this issue by making the civilization more like others? How many times do Goodspeed and myself have to explain this before you stop acting like we haven't? There's nothing weird about nerfing Uhlan hitpoints, and I actually agree with you that an xp penalty is weirdâit's just that the civilization has always had one.
Like I've said again and again: I would consider even nerfing the number of Uhlans shipments give, but I would consider less undesirable options first. Thats all.
P.S. Sorry for not getting back to you on this particular post, until now.
POC wrote:Also I most likely know a whole lot more than you.
POC wrote:Also as an objective third party, and near 100% accuracy of giving correct information, I would say my opinions are more reliable than yours.
Re: Does EP German sacrifice too much for their free uhlans?
charlemango wrote:You're right, if Germany got 2 uhlans with every Fortress shipment it'd basically turn into a clone of France or Spain.zoom wrote:All Fortress Age shipments come with 3 Uhlans, so yes â dozens and dozens. Even if we disregard that fact, it's easier to make one change than to make five.Kaiserklein wrote:"dozens of shipments" lol. It's like 5 fortress unit shipments or so.
Do I have to explain why reducing the amount of uhlans (or units) is logical since the problem was germany having too many units? Alternatives like xp penalty and uhlan hp are definitely weirder.
And how isn't it easier to change 5 shipments than to change uhlan HP (tried 185 too) and xp penalty?
Do I have to explain that the problem is the civilization's performance against others, not any one feature, and why it's illogical to address this issue by making the civilization more like others? How many times do Goodspeed and myself have to explain this before you stop acting like we haven't? There's nothing weird about nerfing Uhlan hitpoints, and I actually agree with you that an xp penalty is weirdâit's just that the civilization has always had one.
Like I've said again and again: I would consider even nerfing the number of Uhlans shipments give, but I would consider less undesirable options first. Thats all.
P.S. Sorry for not getting back to you on this particular post, until now.
It seems you both don't understand the concept of uniqueness. An average player who plays the game will want to make the unique unit of the chosen civilization. That's why the unique unit should be strong enough to beat a standard unit or at least have another bonus, like speed or multipliers against a certain unit type. That's why in Age of Empires 2 there is an emphasis on castle units which are unique to each civilization. Most of the castle units are good and worth using. Someone who will start playing Germany will just be pissed because the unique unit is just bad.
I don't see how tweaking fortress shipments takes the uniqueness of Germany away.
What's unique about the civ is that you get two types of units when you send a shipment.
By lowering the free uhlan amount you will still get two unit types. And again we are only talking about fortress shipments. In colonial, they should still receive 2 uhlans. In the fortress, however, they should only receive one extra or the second unit type should be tweaked.
The weakness of your argument is revealed when you hypothetically apply it to another civilization. Let's say Brits would get 2 bonus vills with every house they build. That would be lame. Nobody would argue that you shouldn't change it to one bonus vill per house. The uniqueness would still be there because brits are the only civilization who gets a bonus vill when building a house.
I, however, appreciate how much you've done for the community. And it's always easy to complain, especially for me who hasn't done anything @zoom.
-
- Musketeer
- Posts: 98
- Joined: Jul 22, 2017
- ESO: 2ndLastKnight
Re: Does EP German sacrifice too much for their free uhlans?
Wow you really can't say anything sarcastic on the Internet huh
Re: Does EP German sacrifice too much for their free uhlans?
Wasn't really directed at you but zoom. But you know when you have people like zoom sometimes hard to tell.charlemango wrote:Wow you really can't say anything sarcastic on the Internet huh
Who is online
Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 22 guests