impossible MU ??

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France chronique
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impossible MU ??

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Post by chronique »

Some peaple have asking, "what is the worst mu" so i have did some stat arround that.

I have selected the 14 worst mu in term of winrate for pr 28+ games (why 14 you asking? because there are 14 civ so i have arbitrary select 14).

This table is pretty ez to read, Aztec won 13 games and lost 26 vs portuguese, it result a 33/66 rate, and overall Aztec player have +0.6 more PR when they face portuguese.

I know, this is not an awnser to the question, but i still thinking than it's valuable to know that. If peaple want, i can give the same table for each specific civ and for any pr limit.
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Re: impossible MU ??

Post by iNcog »

lol someone flamed me for choosing ports vs azzy on RE. guess they were right?
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I just hope DE is not going to implement all of the EP changes. Right now it is a big clusterfuck.
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Re: impossible MU ??

Post by Rohbrot »

chronique wrote:Some peaple have asking, "what is the worst mu" so i have did some stat arround that.

I have selected the 14 worst mu in term of winrate for pr 28+ games (why 14 you asking? because there are 14 civ so i have arbitrary select 14).

This table is pretty ez to read, Aztec won 13 games and lost 26 vs portuguese, it result a 33/66 rate, and overall Aztec player have +0.6 more PR when they face portuguese.

I know, this is not an awnser to the question, but i still thinking than it's valuable to know that. If peaple want, i can give the same table for each specific civ and for any pr limit.
i want this with spain only :smile:
if u can make it :-)
pr28+
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Re: impossible MU ??

Post by [Armag] diarouga »

1.Aztec vs Port is indeed rather hopeless. There are so nice surprising strats though.
2. It's a surprise honestly, this MU is Dutch favoured unless it's a big ATP/water maps. I guess the -0.9 pr and the map pool explain it.
3. Makes sense
4. Makes sense
5. Makes sense on EP 7 where Sioux is crap
6. That's because the Dutch players don't know how to beat Aztecs, but I'm really not surprised.
7. Bad MU for Otto yea
8. That's because @bwinner can't win this MU.
9. WHAT THE FUCK ??? It's the opposite lol. I guess -2 pr explains it, and the fact that you picked pr28+ and not pr35+
10. Makes sense.
11. Again, this is brit favoured. I guess people don't know how to play brit.
12. This is a rather fair MU but -1.5 pr
13. Makes sense
14. Makes sense

Thanks for your stats, it's quite interesting.
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Re: impossible MU ??

Post by Rohbrot »

iNcog wrote:lol someone flamed me for choosing ports vs azzy on RE. guess they were right?
With CM shipped and Tc´s in base its really hard to win for azzy but dunno how WP ff works vs port.
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Re: impossible MU ??

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Post by chronique »

@[Armag] diarouga You need to know than brit have always less pr overall vs his opponenet.

@Rohbrot free :)
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Re: impossible MU ??

Post by [Armag] diarouga »

Rohbrot wrote:
iNcog wrote:lol someone flamed me for choosing ports vs azzy on RE. guess they were right?
With CM shipped and Tc´s in base its really hard to win for azzy but dunno how WP ff works vs port.
WP ff works quite well. In fact, it's the only way to play this MU on no water maps, but Port can counter it.
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Re: impossible MU ??

Post by Rohbrot »

chronique wrote:@[Armag] diarouga You need to know than brit have always less pr overall vs his opponenet.

@Rohbrot free :)
lol this shows that all MU´s are even with spain can this be true?
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Re: impossible MU ??

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Post by flontier »

Its tough to interpret, it mainly shows that in average people plays spain against lower opponent except in some ez mu like spain port and spain dutch.

At the contrary people need to have 1.5-2 pr margin against brit or china to feel confident enough ^^.
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Re: impossible MU ??

Post by Rohbrot »

chronique wrote:@[Armag] diarouga You need to know than brit have always less pr overall vs his opponenet.

@Rohbrot free :)
dunno how this stats shows that the worst MU for spain is vs germans when they dont have 2 falcs :hmm:
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Re: impossible MU ??

Post by iNcog »

[Armag] diarouga wrote:
Rohbrot wrote:
iNcog wrote:lol someone flamed me for choosing ports vs azzy on RE. guess they were right?
With CM shipped and Tc´s in base its really hard to win for azzy but dunno how WP ff works vs port.
WP ff works quite well. In fact, it's the only way to play this MU on no water maps, but Port can counter it.
how so?
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Garja wrote: ↑
20 Mar 2020, 21:46
I just hope DE is not going to implement all of the EP changes. Right now it is a big clusterfuck.
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Re: impossible MU ??

Post by chronique »

Yea porto vs all rush civ looks pretty insane.

British : basicly -1 pr in all mu, explain a lot of winrate. As we can see, brit hard counter spain so hard with 55% winrate and -1.5 pr.
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Re: impossible MU ??

Post by Rohbrot »

chronique wrote:Yea porto vs all rush civ looks pretty insane.

British : basicly -1 pr in all mu, explain a lot of winrate. As we can see, brit hard counter spain so hard with 55% winrate and -1.5 pr.
Yeah i did the wrong strat vs you when i went for musk rush xD
best it would be to go semi ff as brits aswell and just winning with better eco
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Re: impossible MU ??

Post by [Armag] diarouga »

iNcog wrote:
[Armag] diarouga wrote:
Show hidden quotes
WP ff works quite well. In fact, it's the only way to play this MU on no water maps, but Port can counter it.
how so?
How what ? How can port counter it ?
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Re: impossible MU ??

Post by chronique »

Or just boom like a retard because i cant do anything before 8 min, and after that make musket / cav from 2 rax/1stable and outmass.
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Re: impossible MU ??

Post by bwinner »

[Armag] diarouga wrote:1.Aztec vs Port is indeed rather hopeless. There are so nice surprising strats though.
2. It's a surprise honestly, this MU is Dutch favoured unless it's a big ATP/water maps. I guess the -0.9 pr and the map pool explain it.
3. Makes sense
4. Makes sense
5. Makes sense on EP 7 where Sioux is crap
6. That's because the Dutch players don't know how to beat Aztecs, but I'm really not surprised.
7. Bad MU for Otto yea
8. That's because @bwinner can't win this MU.
9. WHAT THE FUCK ??? It's the opposite lol. I guess -2 pr explains it, and the fact that you picked pr28+ and not pr35+
10. Makes sense.
11. Again, this is brit favoured. I guess people don't know how to play brit.
12. This is a rather fair MU but -1.5 pr
13. Makes sense
14. Makes sense

Thanks for your stats, it's quite interesting.
I've just checked, my win winrate is 50% in this MU, so no I am not biaising the stats+I don't see why I would specifically lose this MU so much that I biaise the overall stats and not do the same for any other matches. I am not playing otto vs Aztec all day long.
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Re: impossible MU ??

Post by iNcog »

[Armag] diarouga wrote:
iNcog wrote:
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how so?
How what ? How can port counter it ?
yeah. I dont quite see how port is a counter civ but I understand my knowledge isnt there
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Garja wrote: ↑
20 Mar 2020, 21:46
I just hope DE is not going to implement all of the EP changes. Right now it is a big clusterfuck.
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Re: impossible MU ??

Post by Lukas_L99 »

[Armag] diarouga wrote:
Rohbrot wrote:
iNcog wrote:lol someone flamed me for choosing ports vs azzy on RE. guess they were right?
With CM shipped and Tc´s in base its really hard to win for azzy but dunno how WP ff works vs port.
WP ff works quite well. In fact, it's the only way to play this MU on no water maps, but Port can counter it.
And then you're age 3 vs goon/cass with crappy mace/erk/coy and can never engage without losing almost all your coy :biggrin:
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Re: impossible MU ??

Post by [Armag] diarouga »

Lukas_L99 wrote:
[Armag] diarouga wrote:
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WP ff works quite well. In fact, it's the only way to play this MU on no water maps, but Port can counter it.
And then you're age 3 vs goon/cass with crappy mace/erk/coy and can never engage without losing almost all your coy :biggrin:
Yes, that's why I said Port can counter it. It works quite well still, I'm confident I can beat pr35 dutch players in this MU with wp ff.
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Re: impossible MU ??

Post by Lukas_L99 »

[Armag] diarouga wrote:
Lukas_L99 wrote:
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And then you're age 3 vs goon/cass with crappy mace/erk/coy and can never engage without losing almost all your coy :biggrin:
Yes, that's why I said Port can counter it. It works quite well still, I'm confident I can beat pr35 dutch players in this MU with wp ff.
Dutch or port?
But yeah, ofc you can beat pr35 guys with builds that aren't optimal, a rush might work as well.
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Re: impossible MU ??

Post by Hazza54321 »

[Armag] diarouga wrote:
Lukas_L99 wrote:
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And then you're age 3 vs goon/cass with crappy mace/erk/coy and can never engage without losing almost all your coy :biggrin:
Yes, that's why I said Port can counter it. It works quite well still, I'm confident I can beat pr35 dutch players in this MU with wp ff.
you should try lukas moesbar build vs dutch. Vs ports at least with your merc cards your units are better late age3 but thats about it
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Re: impossible MU ??

Post by flontier »

Actually new cassa overkills af against mace erk
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Re: impossible MU ??

Post by Lukas_L99 »

Who cares if they overkill when they just hit and run forever and kill 50% of your units before you can do relevant damage tho
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Re: impossible MU ??

Post by [Armag] diarouga »

Lukas_L99 wrote:
[Armag] diarouga wrote:
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Yes, that's why I said Port can counter it. It works quite well still, I'm confident I can beat pr35 dutch players in this MU with wp ff.
Dutch or port?
But yeah, ofc you can beat pr35 guys with builds that aren't optimal, a rush might work as well.
Port of course, I mistyped.
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Re: impossible MU ??

Post by [Armag] diarouga »

Lukas_L99 wrote:
[Armag] diarouga wrote:
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Yes, that's why I said Port can counter it. It works quite well still, I'm confident I can beat pr35 dutch players in this MU with wp ff.
Dutch or port?
But yeah, ofc you can beat pr35 guys with builds that aren't optimal, a rush might work as well.
Rush doesn't work against pr35 Port honestly. It's so easy to hold.

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