New Maps for EPL2/Next Patch

[Goodspeed]

It's not necessarily bad map design, it just favors early pressure. One way to offset it would be to have both players start with an outpost wagon.

You need more gimmicks

These maps look good though

[vividlyplain]

@vividlyplain One piece of criticism I've been forwarded is the fact that your mines are only on either the top or bottom side on Bering Strait. Take a look at the minimap.



Imagine the blue player pressures red. Blue only has to pressure the south side of red's base to deny all gold mining and there is no other place for red to go. This is bad map design. I suggest adding more mines on the smaller islands in the middle, and perhaps removing some of the mines in the north/south if the change results in too many gold mines on the map.

Will take this under advisement. Thanks.

It's not necessarily bad map design, it just favors early pressure. One way to offset it would be to have both players start with an outpost wagon.

You need more gimmicks

These maps look good though

Thanks. Will consider this too.

I do fear that this specific gimmick might make RE iro great again.

[Goodspeed]

Why? You can't have them start with an outpost wagon? Has to be a regular travois?

[[Armag] diarouga]

Why? You can't have them start with an outpost wagon? Has to be a regular travois?

I think you can.

[vividlyplain]

Why? You can't have them start with an outpost wagon? Has to be a regular travois?

maybe i'm thinking of the fort wagon that won't build for TWC civs? or perhaps i'm totally wrong and need a certain MUT to guide me

[Mr_Bramboy]

Just tested it. Iroquois can (only) build a warhut from an outpost wagon.

[n0el]

Might have to make a new unit that builds a siberia style outpost.

[Le Hussard sur le toit]

I do fear that this specific gimmick might make RE iro great again.

Or Russia for that matter, if they get a blockhouse wagon... But it would be nice to make it work with a Siberia style wagon !

[vividlyplain]

Just tested it. Iroquois can (only) build a warhut from an outpost wagon.

i just tested by sending team outposts as otto to three TWC allies and all three built actual outposts

perhaps it is a different wagon in the code

[Mr_Bramboy]

Just tested it. Iroquois can (only) build a warhut from an outpost wagon.

i just tested by sending team outposts as otto to three TWC allies and all three built actual outposts

perhaps it is a different wagon in the code

Strange. I used scenario editor to give Iroquois the "VIL Outpost Wagon".

[vividlyplain]

I'm looking for another outpost wagon. There are two different banks (one dutch and one asian) so maybe this is also true of outpost wagons.

[EAGLEMUT]

I just dug into this a bit and apparently the ability to build War Huts was added to EP as a "bugfix", while on RE you can't build anything as WC civs. Personally, I question this decision, since a War Hut isn't really of equivalent effective value. Although less thematically-appropriate, it would perhaps be more balanced to just give TWC civs the asian siberia-style outpost instead.

Just tested it. Iroquois can (only) build a warhut from an outpost wagon.

i just tested by sending team outposts as otto to three TWC allies and all three built actual outposts

perhaps it is a different wagon in the code

Nah, the AI is just cheating, you can't do that as a player.

[vividlyplain]

I just dug into this a bit and apparently the ability to build War Huts was added to EP as a "bugfix", while on RE you can't build anything as WC civs. Personally, I question this decision, since a War Hut isn't really of equivalent effective value. Although less thematically-appropriate, it would perhaps be more balanced to just give TWC civs the asian siberia-style outpost instead.

Just tested it. Iroquois can (only) build a warhut from an outpost wagon.

i just tested by sending team outposts as otto to three TWC allies and all three built actual outposts

perhaps it is a different wagon in the code

Nah, the AI is just cheating, you can't do that as a player.

on EP if you ship team 2 outposts a human can choose either an outpost OR a war hut if they are a TWC civ (or at least i tested it with iro)

[vividlyplain]

@EAGLEMUT i found this in the techtree

Code: Select all

	<Tech name ='HCBastionsTeam' type ='Normal'>

		<DBID>2601</DBID>

		<DisplayNameID>37292</DisplayNameID>

		<Cost resourcetype ='Ships'>1.0000</Cost>

		<ResearchPoints>40.0000</ResearchPoints>

		<Status>UNOBTAINABLE</Status>

		<Icon>ui\techs\hc_team_defenses_bastion\hc_team_defenses</Icon>

		<RolloverTextID>37291</RolloverTextID>

		<Flag>HomeCity</Flag>

		<Flag>TeamTech</Flag>

		<Effects>

			<Effect type ='Data' amount ='2.00' subtype ='FreeHomeCityUnit' unittype ='OutpostWagon' relativity ='Absolute'>

				<Target type ='Player'></Target></Effect>

			<Effect type ='TextOutput'>41945</Effect>

			<Effect type ='Data' amount ='1.00' subtype ='Enable' relativity ='Absolute'>

				<Target type ='ProtoUnit'>Outpost</Target></Effect>

		</Effects>

	</Tech>

Perhaps it's possible to use a trigger for non-euro civs so it works?

[EAGLEMUT]

Good catch, the whole thing appears to be a mess. I've debated possible solutions internally and will try to get a proper fix in, to make this shipment (and outpost wagons themselves) less broken.

[Interjection]

I rather enjoyed the 1v1 matches on Deccan during NWC, I would quite like to see another map with extra crates that doesn't become a wall fest in team

[vividlyplain]

I rather enjoyed the 1v1 matches on Deccan during NWC, I would quite like to see another map with extra crates that doesn't become a wall fest in team

my vietnam map is no tp (but has 4 nat posts) and has deccan crates

it is also quite open so would be harder to wall

[Interjection]

Oh nice, I'll have a look

[vividlyplain]

Oh nice, I'll have a look

message me on discord if you don't have that map

[Zutazuta]

@vividlyplain One piece of criticism I've been forwarded is the fact that your mines are only on either the top or bottom side on Bering Strait. Take a look at the minimap.



Imagine the blue player pressures red. Blue only has to pressure the south side of red's base to deny all gold mining and there is no other place for red to go. This is bad map design. I suggest adding more mines on the smaller islands in the middle, and perhaps removing some of the mines in the north/south if the change results in too many gold mines on the map.

Disagree. That brings strategic element into play. As long as it's consistent (and he says it is), it's no different than planning around a TP route, native settlement, hunt scarcity, etc. Not every map should have a million resources, tps, and hunts.

[zoom]

stage maps are gettingh out of cuntrol

As are the Thars of the world; Fraser River enhances the map-pool bias further. I guess it just wouldn't be EP otherwise.

Other than some resource spawn tuning, these maps do look really good, though.

[dansil92]

Due to some reasonable complaints regarding tapirs being invisible on tuparro, I offer a potential reskin of the map, preserving the original resource spawns and animals/ natives:

Is this preferred? or should time travel be explored to prevent the bayou texture set ever being created?

[vividlyplain]

Due to some reasonable complaints regarding tapirs being invisible on tuparro, I offer a potential reskin of the map, preserving the original resource spawns and animals/ natives:

2020-04-13 21.44.13.png

Is this preferred? or should time travel be explored to prevent the bayou texture set ever being created?

whoa... you created your own thread... get outta mine

[chronique]

Looks better on the map, but wow this orange from the mini map remain me some stuff

[I_HaRRiiSoN_I]

can we get rid of the middle 4TP line on Tupparo though, seems like the 2 spawn variations are so huge in terms of gameplay difference