Mill gather rate

[Interjection]

I just opened up a blank scenario and tasked 10 vils to a mill and left it for an hour

Gathered 18807 food. So... 18807 / 3600s = 5.224 f/s

5.22 / 10 vils = 0.522 /s

Much less than 0.67 f/s stated on the wiki. Obviously this is to do with the fact that vils walk around the mill and only gather when standing still. Note: This doesn't effect paddies as they're designed differently

I thought this was interesting

[deleted_user0]

AFAIK if you put less vills to each mill they gather faster per second

[Interjection]

I expect that is true since they bump less, but isn't representative of how people use mills. Maybe we should though

[Plantinator]

That makes it very fair tho since the gather rate for rice paddies is 0 5/sec (from wiki)

[iCourt]

They should just be set to where villagers don't walk on them and gathering rates adjusted. Treaty community has gone super in depth on this.

IIRC 7 villagers per mill plantation was the ideal amount. Forgot what the reasoning was, but it was proven over several tests. There was a dude called Metis on age comm that dived into this and had done numerous tests over and over to come up with ideal gather rate to building ratio for a treaty game.

Goodspeed should remember Metis, pretty sure every thread on age comm turned into those two arguing over stats.

[deleted_user]

Metis is remembered.

[EAGLEMUT]

That makes it very fair tho since the gather rate for rice paddies is 0 5/sec (from wiki)

Exactly; the gather rate on mills is higher only to account for the walking time and make effective income same as on paddies.
This is, of course, quite stupid. The logical solution would be to make villagers not walk on mills/plantation either. Unfortunately, we currently don't have the tech to do that.

[P i k i l i c]

That makes it very fair tho since the gather rate for rice paddies is 0 5/sec (from wiki)

Exactly; the gather rate on mills is higher only to account for the walking time and make effective income same as on paddies.
This is, of course, quite stupid. The logical solution would be to make villagers not walk on mills/plantation either. Unfortunately, we currently don't have the tech to do that.

what makes you think it's not intended?

[Interjection]

Just did another test for an hour, this time had 10 vils working with seed drill teched to see if it really makes a 15% difference

Got 21710 food. Same maths = 0.603 /s

That's a 15.553% improvement, what a bargain!

[EAGLEMUT]

That makes it very fair tho since the gather rate for rice paddies is 0 5/sec (from wiki)

Exactly; the gather rate on mills is higher only to account for the walking time and make effective income same as on paddies.
This is, of course, quite stupid. The logical solution would be to make villagers not walk on mills/plantation either. Unfortunately, we currently don't have the tech to do that.

what makes you think it's not intended?

I'm not saying it's not intended. It definitely is intended, but it's stupid. Villagers walking on the mill just cause increased lag and "approximated" gather rates.

[P i k i l i c]

I'm not saying it's not intended. It definitely is intended, but it's stupid. Villagers walking on the mill just cause increased lag and "approximated" gather rates.

but it's more realistic... well the same goes for paddies . Anyway, I understand now, you have a point

[harcha]

yeah this was well known in treaty community on the old forums. if i remember correctly it is effectively worse on plantations due to the bigger obstacle compared to mills. it was also effectively worse when using settler wagons due to bigger obstruction radius i.e. more bumping.

it is also quite tedious to test as you really want to not change any variables - use the same computer and same settings etc.

[dansil92]

I believe its TWC farms that are the most efficient per vill? Minimal walking and strong base rate. The bumping thing is so silly considering how mediocre mills are anyways.
(Since berries are 0 walk, no decay, no shoot, no herd they are better in every way)

[Rohbrot]

I believe its TWC farms that are the most efficient per vill? Minimal walking and strong base rate. The bumping thing is so silly considering how mediocre mills are anyways.
(Since berries are 0 walk, no decay, no shoot, no herd they are better in every way)

More maps with berries

[dansil92]

I believe its TWC farms that are the most efficient per vill? Minimal walking and strong base rate. The bumping thing is so silly considering how mediocre mills are anyways.
(Since berries are 0 walk, no decay, no shoot, no herd they are better in every way)

More maps with berries

Boy do I have good news for you

[Rohbrot]

I believe its TWC farms that are the most efficient per vill? Minimal walking and strong base rate. The bumping thing is so silly considering how mediocre mills are anyways.
(Since berries are 0 walk, no decay, no shoot, no herd they are better in every way)

More maps with berries

Boy do I have good news for you

Dhaka is such a nice map with the berrie upgrade

[P i k i l i c]

There was a starvation tournament in 2016 with special no hunt maps

[duckzilla]

I did a comparable analysis here: viewtopic.php?f=29&t=14218


My setup:

• Single player treaty 40 game against one AI opponent on sandbox difficulty
• Map was Amazonia to have as few AI interaction as possible
• Use of cheats to get age up fast/get ressources/build 80 villagers
• Put 40 vills on mills + 40 vills on coin
• Start at "35 minutes remaining", end at "15 minutes remaining"
• Checked how many ressources I had at starting point and end point
• No upgrade cards/upgrades in the buildings themselves

Result:

• In 20 minutes game time, 22.486 food and 17.028 gold were gathered by 40 villagers each
• This translates to (rounded) real base gather rates of 0.468 food/sec per villager and 0.355 gold/sec per villager

edit:
The difference between our results could be explained by the fact that I opened a game online and you might have opened a local one. There was a discussion on differing gather rates due to lag and other stuff in the thread posted above.

[chronique]

Ah i understand why sometime when you build your farm/plantation/etc... next to the limite of the map, you can have idle vili who want work outside the map.

[thomasgreen6]

I expect that is true since they bump less, but isn't representative of how people use mills. Maybe we should though

It's almost as if no one has watched a nr40 before...

[Hazza54321]

I expect that is true since they bump less, but isn't representative of how people use mills. Maybe we should though

It's almost as if no one has watched a nr40 before...

with good reason

[I_HaRRiiSoN_I]

@giveuanxiety should read this thread, dropping mills on Dhaka before even using up all the in base berries as well as not expanding to the north berries and/or bhakti temple. Map knowledge of the tournament map pool is so important.

[thomasgreen6]

I expect that is true since they bump less, but isn't representative of how people use mills. Maybe we should though

It's almost as if no one has watched a nr40 before...

with good reason

You can't call yourself a true Aoe3 player unless you've sat through at least one nr40 match start to finish

[iNcog]

Just did another test for an hour, this time had 10 vils working with seed drill teched to see if it really makes a 15% difference

Got 21710 food. Same maths = 0.603 /s

That's a 15.553% improvement, what a bargain!

if you have another hour to kill can you see if 7 vills is actually more cost efficient than 10 vills?

[aaryngend]

Even in a normal supremacy game, it is not worth it to build an extra mill or two to not have more than 7 settlers gathering for improved food production.
Why? You just lose out on 1,148 food/sec but for that to make up, you need to have more mills (let's say you got 40 settlers gathering food on mills, that would make 4 mills if you let the max amount of 10 settlers gather. If you want to use 7 per mill only, that would mean that you need 6 mills in total, having 5 mills @7 settlers and 1 mill at 5. That's 2 more mills and 800 .
Also, the more mills you have, the easier it is to raid your settlers. 4 mills are easier to defend than 6.. more space that you need to take care of
Again, you don't build mills until at least midgame and for the slight benefit of more harvest, you'd need to gather on them for a long period of time until that 1,148 /sec really kicks into play, not mentioning the much higher cost to build these mills in the first place.

This whole idea only makes any kind sense for treaty games, where you will have dozens of settlers gather from mills for many minutes, without the fear of raiding.

I made the most important aspects (I think) as to why not do this in any kind of supremacy games, let it be 1v1 or 4v4, in bold text.

An interesting topic nontheless