Somppu apology/leaving scene

[[Armag] diarouga]

I think we all need to take a step back and think about what this ESOC is and what it does for us. It's literally people who are spending an enormous amout of free time to make this website, host streams, organize tournaments and dealing with everyone and their opinion. It costs us nothing to take part in all of this and on top of that it is free for everyone to enter the tournaments with the possibility to comptete for some real life money. Of course there will be a lot of disagreement and debates over stuff like EP patch notes and admin decisions but it could be healthy to take a step back an be thankful for what you get and that alot of people organize this for us for free, even if it's not perfect.

Now the thing regarding this punishment, I feel this whole thread is about how it's unfair to Somppu and not anyone is talking about how to prevent these things from happening in the future. Surely that needs to be the goal, right?

So while I definately agree that the rule breaking from Somppu is nowhere close to half of what Tit and Kynesie did, I can at least understand that the admins are tired of players not respecting a team tournament that they put so much time in creating and managing. Like Hazza himseld said in twitch chat today; it's bad to ban top players since there aren't so many to choose from but it's even worse to have them immune to the rules and free to act like they want.

So at the end of the day we should remember that we are here for fun and we are getting this all organized us for free, and I think the main debate should be how to prevent these things from happen in the future.

The best way to prevent this from happening is to set a "sentence" that is enough to discourage people from doing that.
Obviously, banning people from EPL 3 is not enough, hazza didn't care, and Somppu expected the same thing to happen.

It's easy to say what the best solution was after something happens, but imo the admins should have been more explicit about the punishment for forfeiting on purpose. Like if Somppu and hazza knew that they would get a 6 month tournament ban, then they probably wouldn't have done that.
On top of that, it makes the decisions less arbitraty. Admins can then say that it was written in the rules that you'd get a 6 month ban.
At this moment, the only thing that's written in the rules is "Failure to complete matches consistently may result in being barred from entrance in future ESOC tournaments.", and it's not enough.

Finally, I think that they should issue warnings before punishing the players. It's too late now, but I'm quite sure that somppu wouldn't have forfeited if they told him he'd get banned for 6 months then, and let him 24hours to consider it.

[chronique]

Well, i have understaood the sarcasm, and i am very happy because usually i need explaination!

[aqwer]

Somppu's aggressive attitude will not help him at all. I think you should be calm and reasonable.
I have more reasons to go aggressive bcz the utter disappoint EP gave me. Eight patches in and still no trainable spahi, no abus gun with 'aoe', no 20 hand att jans with x2.5 against cav, no 7 speed ca, no improvement to irregular, which all makes sense design wise. Instead otto units are nerfed except spahi atm.
But I didn't lose my cool, and will keep fighting and arguing for the logical changes until I can. But keeping it within limits of good behavior.

[[Armag] diarouga]

AoE3 definitely has too many players, especially top players. Banning everyone who has a hot temper, even if sporadical, sure is a good way to keep the game alive and involve the community even more in the events!

Lol, I'm glad you're finally showing your true face. I understand why you support Zoi against the top players now, you just hate the top players.

Was the sarcasm of my post not evident? I guess not

I’m baffled by your statement, nonetheless...

No it wasn't evident considering the discussions we've had in the past.

And the thread is super serious also, so it's hard to detect sarcasm.

[Sargsyan]

@GiBthedurrty thoughts ?

[Challenger_Marco]

@GiBthedurrty thoughts ?

Sargsyan beat me ,hence i quit aoe3

[GiBthedurrty]

@GiBthedurrty thoughts ?

[deleted_user0]

@Hawk_Girl
Good text. Not that only pros can't be immune but also as Diarouga pointed out, some admins
decide punishments depending on how much they like someone.

There's no way Bram's hatred against me has no role here. Hard penalty was partly justified by misleading statements/lies.

[Aykin Haraka]

@Hawk_Girl
Good text. Not that only pros can't be immune but also as Diarouga pointed out, some admins
decide punishments depending on how much they like someone.

There's no way Bram's hatred against me has no role here. Hard penalty was partly justified by misleading statements/lies.

nothing new at all bro

[Challenger_Marco]

i miss breeze

[gamevideo113]

Show hidden quotes

AoE3 definitely has too many players, especially top players. Banning everyone who has a hot temper, even if sporadical, sure is a good way to keep the game alive and involve the community even more in the events!

Lol, I'm glad you're finally showing your true face. I understand why you support Zoi against the top players now, you just hate the top players.

Was the sarcasm of my post not evident? I guess not

I’m baffled by your statement, nonetheless...

i think this thread is very serious ,so we couldn't understand your sarcasm here.

I’d say my post wasn’t very serious

And just to be clear, i don’t enjoy bashing on anyone, despite what diarouga might think. I can’t overstate the respect i have for everyone in the ESOC team for working their ass off for free to keep this community alive, but i also think some decisions should be taken more open-mindedly and without too much ”resentment”, so to say.
I don’t think i sympathize strongly with somppu, since he often has a spammy attitude and i can see how that would piss some people off, but this is just a game after all. If he’s had a bad day just give his team some penalty points for bad sportsmanship and move on. 6 months ban? Seriously? Do we really want to get rid of active members? Makes little sense to me.

[Astaroth]

I personally don't want either Somppu or Hazza to be banned, they are fun guys and good players. But obviously they also can't just ignore the rules, otherwise all the tournaments become pointless. There needs to be some sort of punishment.

However, the problems so far were:
1. No clear communication of possible punishments in advance. There needs to be some sort of rough announcement of this for the future: "losing games on purpose / quitting a tournament (or whatever) results in a ban from ESOC events for the next X months".
2. The punishments are disproportionate.

So IMO considering all this, they should just give Hazza and Somppu the same punishment, something between "only ban from EPL2" (too little of a punishment) and "6 month ban" (too high), so maybe 2 months or so.

[deleted_user0]

One of the biggest problems is that here is mixed forum writing and tournaments.

My anti-EP campaign has surely indirect role giving me this absurd ban, equilevant to Tit and Kynesie. Especially when less than 12 hours later, after sleep, I wanted to continue.
Should keep probably writing and playing penalties separate.

[[Armag] diarouga]

Show hidden quotes

AoE3 definitely has too many players, especially top players. Banning everyone who has a hot temper, even if sporadical, sure is a good way to keep the game alive and involve the community even more in the events!

Lol, I'm glad you're finally showing your true face. I understand why you support Zoi against the top players now, you just hate the top players.

Was the sarcasm of my post not evident? I guess not

I’m baffled by your statement, nonetheless...

i think this thread is very serious ,so we couldn't understand your sarcasm here.

I’d say my post wasn’t very serious

And just to be clear, i don’t enjoy bashing on anyone, despite what diarouga might think. I can’t overstate the respect i have for everyone in the ESOC team for working their ass off for free to keep this community alive, but i also think some decisions should be taken more open-mindedly and without too much ”resentment”, so to say.
I don’t think i sympathize strongly with somppu, since he often has a spammy attitude and i can see how that would piss some people off, but this is just a game after all. If he’s had a bad day just give his team some penalty points for bad sportsmanship and move on. 6 months ban? Seriously? Do we really want to get rid of active members? Makes little sense to me.

I'm sorry I misunderstood your comment then.

[deleted_user0]

The last thing I want to say is:

I have done a mistake yesterday, even though I still disagree with decision, I should have not forfeited.

I have promised to play rest of the league without any problems, giving my 100% in every game and therefore providing the #1 SKG line up for the remaining games. Promising that is everything to be done at this point and decision is not in my hands.

This is very painful situation to NN, MDS and BIG as NWC and CMC might be able to farm a lot of points vs SKG which has to move all other players one slot above.
However, the standings are very even I hope I will not be blamed for "destroying" any of those EPL as I am ready to continue at my best possible level.
Admins have made their decisions but I want to say it once loud that I have informed them to be ready and motivated to continue, and I still am.

[[Armag] diarouga]

The last thing I want to say is:

I have done a mistake yesterday, even though I still disagree with decision, I should have not forfeited.

I have promised to play rest of the league without any problems, giving my 100% in every game and therefore providing the #1 SKG line up for the remaining games. Promising that is everything to to be done at this point and decision is not in my hands.

This is very painful situation to NN, MDS and BIG as NWC and CMC might be able to farm a lot of points vs SKG which has to move all other players one slot above.
However, the standings are very even I hope I will not be blamed for "destroying" any of those EPL as I am ready to play at my best possible level.
Admins have made their decisions but I want to say it once loud that I have informed them to be ready and motivated to continue, and I still am.

If you start giving your 100% in every game, this will be unfair to NWC and CMC though

[SoldieR]

Let the man play

*boy watch

[gamevideo113]

Show hidden quotes

AoE3 definitely has too many players, especially top players. Banning everyone who has a hot temper, even if sporadical, sure is a good way to keep the game alive and involve the community even more in the events!

Lol, I'm glad you're finally showing your true face. I understand why you support Zoi against the top players now, you just hate the top players.

Was the sarcasm of my post not evident? I guess not

I’m baffled by your statement, nonetheless...

i think this thread is very serious ,so we couldn't understand your sarcasm here.

I’d say my post wasn’t very serious

And just to be clear, i don’t enjoy bashing on anyone, despite what diarouga might think. I can’t overstate the respect i have for everyone in the ESOC team for working their ass off for free to keep this community alive, but i also think some decisions should be taken more open-mindedly and without too much ”resentment”, so to say.
I don’t think i sympathize strongly with somppu, since he often has a spammy attitude and i can see how that would piss some people off, but this is just a game after all. If he’s had a bad day just give his team some penalty points for bad sportsmanship and move on. 6 months ban? Seriously? Do we really want to get rid of active members? Makes little sense to me.

I'm sorry I misunderstood your comment then.

Oh, don’t worry about that. I misunderstand stuff all the time too.
About the “grudges” between us (i’ll be brief since this is completely off topic - if you want to talk more about this we can do it in private or other, more appropriate, threads); i defend zoi for the simple reason that overall i like the way he thinks about game design and balance and i think his patch could make the DE succesful. I just happen to prefer his approach to the more conservative approach some other players, including you, have. With this said, i obviously think he doesn’t magically get everything right, and as a matter of fact, i could also show you pages of PMs between me and him where i’m arguing against some of his changes.
In the end, even though we have disagreed quite often lately, i don’t think there is a shred of evidence of hatred towards any of the top players coming from me.

[Cocaine]

Serious Somali statement:

Let me firstly explain the games from my perspective: I reserved all Saturday to play Forjustice.
30-minutes the series we had to reschedule. The time was really late on Sunday due to other series but I did not want to postpone later due to preparation. The series started late, partly due to Optimus__Prime time wasting versus Osmane.
We played in a terrible lag, maximizing my tilt factor. In game 2 game was over for a long time. In this lag I got extremely frustrated him not resigning and quit the game. Forjustice also did a very late resign in game3.

However, I got my shit together and won the last 3 games. Later in the evening, admins announced the win to Forjustice. This decision made me furious. The only rational decision to me would not give the win to either player. Therefore, tired 4am in the morning I decided to forfeit from EPL.

Now, after rest and cooling down I would like to continue EPL. Instead I'm being banned for 6 months and EPL3 after that. That means I'm missing most of the events for next year. To comparison, hazza was not banned from anything else except EPL3.

CMC and NWC are going to benefit from the situation enormously, SKG line-up being significantly worse. Prince has been spreading rumours that Jackgaming is being inserted to the roster.
I do apology for my impulsive forfeit but I find consequences way too serious considering how much I was provoked.

How about you act like a role model for other players, and a professional and not rage like a child? Thats why you're banned. You don't deserve to be watched by others, you are a bad example of our community. Suck it up princess

[deleted_user0]

Thanks for your kind comment on a thread I'm starting to apologize and fix the damage. But it's great you're showing some good example how the community should look like.

[Dolan]

Lol, this is hillarious. Someone complaining about role models among 5 remaining players of a 15-year old game, patched by one single guy in his bedroom, and admin'd by an 18 yr old kid.

Pls, someone make a movie about this.

[Hazza54321]

Lol, this is hillarious. Someone complaining about role models among 5 remaining players of a 15-years old game, patched by one single guy in his bedroom and admin'd by an 18 yr old kid.

Pls, someone make a movie about this.

im sure you aspire to be somppukunkku

[Dolan]

Who gives a shit, lol. I think everyone lost their sense of proportion. Everything that happens here is so insignificant, like wtf is everyone taking themselves so seriously.

The "ESO community" is like 15 people playing a modded game, lol. So much drama over some small incident.

Get over yourselves, guys. Move on and hf.

[Cometk]

I guess I'll start off by saying that I have been planning the EPL2 for months in advance, since the conclusion of the successful first iteration. The original EPL1 was in production for almost a year and a half before it could be fully realized. This is to give a sense of how much effort has gone into making the event a success and enjoyable for everyone to participate in, and to show that I am first and foremost concerned with the health of the league and continuing it on as a tradition throughout ESOC's future.

Next, forfeiting your team simply because they are underperforming and no longer in Playoffs contention compromises the entire concept of the league and has disastrous impacts on the event's continued success. Now, I understand there are a lot of corroborating factors that added to your frustration when you made your decision to quit. But this is not the first time you've threatened forfeiture.

Attempting to use one's own forfeiture as a means of leverage against admins is already worthy of a disqualification. Obviously in the EPL event, admins have a vested interest in making things work out, because one player's forfeiture doesn't simply affect himself, it affects the entire team. That's why we aren't quick to take after-series emo posts, channel/server-leaving, and general "I'm out" threats with much weight, at least in the wake of a disappointing match result. We are and have and will continue to do our best to keep things together, not JUST for the sake of the league, but for the personal sake of the players who would be negatively affected by such a decision... I'm a firm believer that the SKG season isn't completely sunk just because the team is currently behind in the standings. While playoffs viability is agreeably farfetched, there is absolutely a chance at vying for 4th place earnings, and even if there were not, there is value in trying your hardest in spite of that. That's what the rules stipulate is expected of a player in the league, and that's the obligation you make to your teammates and, better, yourself when you sign up to participate in the event.

Let me say that the 6 month tourban & banning from next iteration was by my personal recommendation. This is the precedent I wanted to set for destroying the integrity of the league, and it will continue to be used for players who seem to think it's okay to drop out of the league midseason because they don't see any hope for a big performance anymore, thereby fucking over their manager, their teammates, organizers, and everyone else in the league. I can understand not wanting to invest hours of practice into the rest of the event after the team's playoffs potential is no longer there; that makes total sense to me. The least you can do then is schedule your next matches, show up and try your hardest for 2 hours. That's what's expected of a player when they sign up, and that should have been exceedingly clear from the very beginning.

It was just last week, after your match with Osmane you came to admins and said you were forfeiting the league. At that time, you were comfortable receiving the ban from the next iteration of EPL, which goes to show that it was not enough of a deterrent for you to take the integrity of the league seriously. This week, through all the shit, you continue to disrespect the integrity of the event and so it's hard to see there being another option.

I'll only speak for myself here; can you understand why my faith in you has been eroded to dust?

[harcha]

Lol, this is hillarious. Someone complaining about role models among 5 remaining players of a 15-year old game, patched by one single guy in his bedroom, and admin'd by an 18 yr old kid.

Pls, someone make a movie about this.

Lol, this is hillarious. Someone complaining about role models among 5 remaining players of a 15-year old game, patched by one single guy in his bedroom, and admin'd by an 18 yr old kid, and someone else making an actual movie about this.