do aoe3 players adapt better to aoe2, versus aoe2 players adapting to aoe3?

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do aoe3 players adapt better to aoe2, versus aoe2 players adapting to aoe3?

Post by Squamiger »

aoe2 = slower, more macro focused
aoe3 = faster, more micro focused (? maybe ?)

does an aoe3 player have an easier time adapting to aoe2, or does an aoe2 player have an easier time adapting to aoe3?
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Re: do aoe3 players adapt better to aoe2, versus aoe2 players adapting to aoe3?

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Post by iNcog »

aoe2 is the harder game
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Re: do aoe3 players adapt better to aoe2, versus aoe2 players adapting to aoe3?

Post by fei123456 »

AOE2 is way too hard and complex imo. It's a good and classic game indeed, but it's not the ideal RTS game in 2020s.
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Re: do aoe3 players adapt better to aoe2, versus aoe2 players adapting to aoe3?

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Post by Riotcoke »

AOE2 isn't hard and complex, it's that it's too old and clunky. Certain things in aoe2 just don't belong in a modern RTS game. Hopefully AOE4 can run a bit like a modern aoe2 as that'd be perfect.
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Re: do aoe3 players adapt better to aoe2, versus aoe2 players adapting to aoe3?

Post by iNcog »

it's strange to compare them they're really different games in so many ways

AOE2 macro isn't hard but seeding farms is a pain in the ass
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Garja wrote: ↑
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I just hope DE is not going to implement all of the EP changes. Right now it is a big clusterfuck.
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Re: do aoe3 players adapt better to aoe2, versus aoe2 players adapting to aoe3?

Post by Squamiger »

yea but im not asking which game is harder. im asking, do the skills from aoe3 prepare you better for aoe2, vs how the skills from aoe2 prepare you for aoe3
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Re: do aoe3 players adapt better to aoe2, versus aoe2 players adapting to aoe3?

Post by helln00 »

I think aoe 2 skills transfer more easily to aoe 3 than the reverse.

Things like managing macro at a broader level are present in both games so being able to do that in aoe 2 means you can do the same in aoe3. reseeding farms in annoying but if you were used to it and now you dont hav to do it anymore its easier.

On the other hand aoe 3 has so many little mechanics difference like herding, snaring, no attack ground, batch training that if you are used to doing all of that it and now its gone you will be behind.
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Re: do aoe3 players adapt better to aoe2, versus aoe2 players adapting to aoe3?

Post by aaryngend »

No matter how you put it, aoe3 is easier to learn for aoe2 players than the other way around.
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Re: do aoe3 players adapt better to aoe2, versus aoe2 players adapting to aoe3?

Post by Challenger_Marco »

An aoe3 player can easily lean aoe2 ,aoe2 is an easy game imo
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Re: do aoe3 players adapt better to aoe2, versus aoe2 players adapting to aoe3?

Post by aaryngend »

Challenger_Marco wrote:An aoe3 player can easily lean aoe2 ,aoe2 is an easy game imo
What you smoking man, aoe2 and sc:bw are the hardest RTS games on the market.
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Re: do aoe3 players adapt better to aoe2, versus aoe2 players adapting to aoe3?

Post by Challenger_Marco »

aaryngend wrote:
Challenger_Marco wrote:An aoe3 player can easily lean aoe2 ,aoe2 is an easy game imo
What you smoking man, aoe2 and sc:bw are the hardest RTS games on the market.
Then your noob dude
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Re: do aoe3 players adapt better to aoe2, versus aoe2 players adapting to aoe3?

Post by Challenger_Marco »

Aoe2 isn't that slow as you think the in game speed is ~1.75x faster than real time so an 40 min game like ~20 mins and 1 hour game is like 30 mins and as the game goes longer you will have more action than aoe3 and you need alot of apm
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Re: do aoe3 players adapt better to aoe2, versus aoe2 players adapting to aoe3?

Post by Challenger_Marco »

Squamiger wrote: does an aoe3 player have an easier time adapting to aoe2 -->YES, or does an aoe2 player have an easier time adapting to aoe3-->No?
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Re: do aoe3 players adapt better to aoe2, versus aoe2 players adapting to aoe3?

Post by princeofcarthage »

Aoe 3 is easy to learn, hard to master. Aoe 2 is hard to learn, easy to master. Aoe 2 is more of a chore honestly. I haven't played it for some time now now though don't you just make single unit most of the time?
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Re: do aoe3 players adapt better to aoe2, versus aoe2 players adapting to aoe3?

Post by aaryngend »

princeofcarthage wrote:Aoe 3 is easy to learn, hard to master. Aoe 2 is hard to learn, easy to master. Aoe 2 is more of a chore honestly. I haven't played it for some time now now though don't you just make single unit most of the time?
I just lol'd. No truly competitive game is easy to master.
That would defeat the whole purpose of it being intricate and complex.

You two clearly have no idea about aoe2.
You can teach any rts player how to jan rush, FF or cheese with the Ottomans in aoe3 and he can be 2nd-1st Lieut in a couple of hours tbh.
Try the same in aoe2. Even the early game alone (before reaching feudal age) is 10x more complex in aoe2 than aoe3.
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Re: do aoe3 players adapt better to aoe2, versus aoe2 players adapting to aoe3?

Post by princeofcarthage »

What part of hard to learn did you not read? Besides game being easy or hard to learn doesn't equate it to more competitive or not. Aoe 3 is arguably infinitely more complex than aoe 2 and primary reason why it has lower playerbase than aoe 2. It's true that currently game has certain imbalances that skews meta in certain direction. However if the game ever reaches it full potential it's just more complex.
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Re: do aoe3 players adapt better to aoe2, versus aoe2 players adapting to aoe3?

Post by aaryngend »

princeofcarthage wrote:Aoe 3 is arguably infinitely more complex than aoe 2 and primary reason why it has lower playerbase than aoe 2.However if the game ever reaches it full potential it's just more complex.
It isn't complex. It just has a lot of cards, natives and content.
A new player might just get overwhelmed a little with the amount of different stuff in the game, but that doesn't make it harder to learn.
I see aoe3 in the middle or slightly above that, it isn't the hardest rts to learn, but not too easy either.
It also took years until aoe3 got to this point. From Vanilla-TWC it was an extremely one-dimensional game.
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Re: do aoe3 players adapt better to aoe2, versus aoe2 players adapting to aoe3?

Post by princeofcarthage »

You need to learn to read and not nitpick according to your needs.
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Re: do aoe3 players adapt better to aoe2, versus aoe2 players adapting to aoe3?

Post by Challenger_Marco »

So i was thinking about this ,we are talking here which is easier to learn definitely aoe2 because every civ is very similar ,barracks ,stable all have same units ,monastery same monks,Docks similar again , just some units vary with diff civs and some units present are not ,just caste age units and techs are diff ,and everything can be seen in tech tree .
Every farm is the same farm so you can easily understand the learn the game.
But Aoe3 is totally different it has card mechanism which is different for each civ and each civ is unique so its harder to learn this than aoe3.
Aoe2 is aoe3 but without shipment and cards but aoe3 is no way similar to aoe2 totally different mechanics.
Can say alot about these 2 games ,going water early in aoe3 might not be as good as it has been in aoe2.
Aoe2 is Micro & more Marco intense than aoe3 ,if you want to experience this type of skill then aoe3 treaty is best game ,but aoe2 is even more intense like archers vs mangonel for example 1 volley and archers and they are gonna ,you need to stay and focus on your archer if you miss it ,whole army is gone ,aoe2 has alot of comeback options unlike in aoe3 .
Quick walls in aoe2 ,marco managment & mirco makes this game busy.
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Re: do aoe3 players adapt better to aoe2, versus aoe2 players adapting to aoe3?

Post by Astaroth »

The basic mechanics in AoE2 are easier to grasp: there is no shipment mechanic, all civs are very similar, there are few "special" BOs (you can basically just learn a few simple ones like scouts or m&a).

However, imo aoe2 has a much higher skill ceiling due to more macro requirements, more vills, more menial things like reseeding farms, replacing lumber camps, bigger maps, hill bonus etc.

This for me results in the following:

1. An aoe2 player coming to aoe3 will have a hard time in the very beginning due to all the new concepts, different civs, focus on BOs etc. But once he gets over the steep initial climb, he will perform quite well.

2. An aoe3 player coming to aoe2 in contrast will have an easier time getting the very basics down, but then will struggle to improve a lot due to higher apm needed, more multi tasking etc.
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Re: do aoe3 players adapt better to aoe2, versus aoe2 players adapting to aoe3?

Post by RefluxSemantic »

Riotcoke wrote:AOE2 isn't hard and complex, it's that it's too old and clunky. Certain things in aoe2 just don't belong in a modern RTS game. Hopefully AOE4 can run a bit like a modern aoe2 as that'd be perfect.
Aoe2 is very hard though. Its hard to be good enough to the point where strategic decisions actually matter.

When you arent as good, doing something strategical to get an earlier TC doesnt matter if your opponent did a slightly better job at defending. Doing some other strategically smart push doesnt really matter when you're floating more resources than your opponent is. That is why you can consider it 'too hard'.

But I do agree I hope aoe4 is a lot like aoe2 with more polish.
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Re: do aoe3 players adapt better to aoe2, versus aoe2 players adapting to aoe3?

Post by Astaroth »

To be fair, strategy in aoe3 also isn't that important aside from the very top level or in rare circumstances.

If you have a decent civ (for the map and MU) and have a generally good BO that you execute nicely plus good mechanics, you will have a great chance at winning, basically without scouting and no matter what your opponent does.

Executing a solid BO and having great mechanics is imo much more important in aoe3 than knowing the game inside out, adapting, having special strats etc.

Obviously at the very top level when both have good mechanics, BOs etc, strategy choices can make a difference, however.
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Re: do aoe3 players adapt better to aoe2, versus aoe2 players adapting to aoe3?

Post by chris1089 »

I disagree with this. Even by major level I think strategy is making a significant difference.
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Re: do aoe3 players adapt better to aoe2, versus aoe2 players adapting to aoe3?

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Post by RefluxSemantic »

chris1089 wrote:I disagree with this. Even by major level I think strategy is making a significant difference.
It probably even makes the biggest difference.
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Re: do aoe3 players adapt better to aoe2, versus aoe2 players adapting to aoe3?

Post by Goodspeed »

chris1089 wrote:I disagree with this. Even by major level I think strategy is making a significant difference.
Major is like what top 200? When you get to that level in AoE2, strategy makes a big difference as well.
But I think on all levels decision making is more impactful in AoE3 not because it's necessarily more strategically deep, but because mechanics are relatively unimportant.

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