send CM make 3 TCdeleted_user wrote:I need some help guys so after reading about this "TR 10" on EP I started never making units before 10 minutes on EP and I lose every single game. Can someone please help?
RAGEQUITTING AOE3
- harcha
- Gendarme
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Re: RAGEQUITTING AOE3
POC wrote:Also I most likely know a whole lot more than you.
POC wrote:Also as an objective third party, and near 100% accuracy of giving correct information, I would say my opinions are more reliable than yours.
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Re: RAGEQUITTING AOE3
Maps without TP aren't nr10. But then people cry there's no TP.
Maps with a central tp line also forces players to fight for mapcontrol. But then people cry about the TP line.
Same thing for maps with low resources. It feels like no matter the map people will complain.
Either way, good players don't play nr10, except for a few mus. Bots do
Maps with a central tp line also forces players to fight for mapcontrol. But then people cry about the TP line.
Same thing for maps with low resources. It feels like no matter the map people will complain.
Either way, good players don't play nr10, except for a few mus. Bots do
LoOk_tOm wrote:I have something in particular against Kaisar (GERMANY NOOB mercenary LAMME FOREVER) And the other people (noobs) like suck kaiser ... just this ..
Re: RAGEQUITTING AOE3
Thats kind of like saying its so bad its good. The reason why there was more action was becaus you get screwed because of the map and the matchup so people do crazier shits.RefluxSemantic wrote:RE has fun gameplay though. It just sucks that over half of the time you don't have a hunt or you're playing some ridiculously broken match up. But honestly I prefer the generic gameplay of RE. There's just more action and it feels less repetitive.
Basically RE has 3 shit games for every 1 good game, but when things come together its a really good game. EP has 4 average games, but sometimes average just isn't good enough. That's how I experience it at least.
- Riotcoke
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Re: RAGEQUITTING AOE3
What if i want to dutch church fi though?Kaiserklein wrote:Maps without TP aren't nr10. But then people cry there's no TP.
Maps with a central tp line also forces players to fight for mapcontrol. But then people cry about the TP line.
Same thing for maps with low resources. It feels like no matter the map people will complain.
Either way, good players don't play nr10, except for a few mus. Bots do
twitch.tv/stangoesdeepTV
Re: RAGEQUITTING AOE3
If you think ep is broken or boring go play a couple games on re ozarks. Repeat as necessary
- edeholland
- ESOC Community Team
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Re: RAGEQUITTING AOE3
What is this gatekeeping? There are so many reasons for doing stuff for the community. I get that you had some bad experiences when creating maps, but you are still enjoying the content the community produces, so there definitely is a point to keep doing it.vividlyplain wrote:there's honestly no point to making maps for this community or donating time to help run events, etciNcog wrote:You could probably make more aggressive metas with maps too. but when we get those people complain
Re: RAGEQUITTING AOE3
Ede, you need to realize that it can be very draining to help out. There are many good reasons to help out, it's very fulfilling, but it's a double-edged sword. If you put hours of work into maps only to get a few people talk mad shit about them, how is that going to feel good? It feels like a waste of time. Our mapmakers have always been the butt of criticism that is slightly too vehement imo.edeholland wrote:What is this gatekeeping? There are so many reasons for doing stuff for the community. I get that you had some bad experiences when creating maps, but you are still enjoying the content the community produces, so there definitely is a point to keep doing it.vividlyplain wrote:there's honestly no point to making maps for this community or donating time to help run events, etciNcog wrote:You could probably make more aggressive metas with maps too. but when we get those people complain
I think it goes back to some points being made earlier in the thread: drama has too big of a place in AOE3. and you can say that things are less toxic now than before, and that would be true. but it's still not good enough. look at EPL drama, look at EP drama. those are critical parts of AOE3 and its scene, it's not just the ear and I flaming each other in some obscure off topic thread. We need to collectively have a good look at ourselves and try to be a bit more courteous to one another. I think it's rich, coming from me, who has flamed so much on ESOC as it is. But I stand by it.
I'm not sure how we can all get along a bit more but I think small steps from everyone would be better. I've already started to filter out about 50% of my flaming. Will try to work it up to 70%.
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- Gendarme
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Re: RAGEQUITTING AOE3
It just felt like the civ diversity was better. RE has a pretty nice mix of aggro/boomy/FF civs, and EP didn't really improve on that to say the very least.helln00 wrote:Thats kind of like saying its so bad its good. The reason why there was more action was becaus you get screwed because of the map and the matchup so people do crazier shits.RefluxSemantic wrote:RE has fun gameplay though. It just sucks that over half of the time you don't have a hunt or you're playing some ridiculously broken match up. But honestly I prefer the generic gameplay of RE. There's just more action and it feels less repetitive.
Basically RE has 3 shit games for every 1 good game, but when things come together its a really good game. EP has 4 average games, but sometimes average just isn't good enough. That's how I experience it at least.
Re: RAGEQUITTING AOE3
lol you think?RefluxSemantic wrote:It just felt like the civ diversity was better. RE has a pretty nice mix of aggro/boomy/FF civs, and EP didn't really improve on that to say the very least.helln00 wrote:Thats kind of like saying its so bad its good. The reason why there was more action was becaus you get screwed because of the map and the matchup so people do crazier shits.RefluxSemantic wrote:RE has fun gameplay though. It just sucks that over half of the time you don't have a hunt or you're playing some ridiculously broken match up. But honestly I prefer the generic gameplay of RE. There's just more action and it feels less repetitive.
Basically RE has 3 shit games for every 1 good game, but when things come together its a really good game. EP has 4 average games, but sometimes average just isn't good enough. That's how I experience it at least.
I can click into a game with any civ on EP and feel okay about it. Obviously my civ pool isn't that deep but my EP civ pool is a lot better than my RE civ pool which is like India/China/Aztec. e.g. civs that either don't need map control or can take it.
- edeholland
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Re: RAGEQUITTING AOE3
I do understand it can be very draining, I didn't deny that. I'm responding to his point that there is "no point in donating time" which is not true.iNcog wrote:Ede, you need to realize that it can be very draining to help out. There are many good reasons to help out, it's very fulfilling, but it's a double-edged sword. If you put hours of work into maps only to get a few people talk mad shit about them, how is that going to feel good? It feels like a waste of time. Our mapmakers have always been the butt of criticism that is slightly too vehement imo.edeholland wrote:What is this gatekeeping? There are so many reasons for doing stuff for the community. I get that you had some bad experiences when creating maps, but you are still enjoying the content the community produces, so there definitely is a point to keep doing it.Show hidden quotes
- princeofcarthage
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Re: RAGEQUITTING AOE3
One of the reason why map makers probably get shit on is there is no tandem in EP patch development and map development. Maps and game play are very much related. You could push game play meta in one direction but map in another and that is going to create a lot of shit talk.edeholland wrote:I do understand it can be very draining, I didn't deny that. I'm responding to his point that there is "no point in donating time" which is not true.iNcog wrote:Ede, you need to realize that it can be very draining to help out. There are many good reasons to help out, it's very fulfilling, but it's a double-edged sword. If you put hours of work into maps only to get a few people talk mad shit about them, how is that going to feel good? It feels like a waste of time. Our mapmakers have always been the butt of criticism that is slightly too vehement imo.Show hidden quotes
Fine line to something great is a strange change.
- aligator92
- Howdah
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Re: RAGEQUITTING AOE3
I think everyone who thinks that EP is not much better than RE should follow dansil's advice and play some games there. A lot of this sounds like there is a nostalgia for RE, where you only remember the good bits and forgot about how bad it was.
Another thing is that most people discussing here have climbed up the ladder since RE and at a higher level it is always less fun. If Kaiser didn't mind dropping down to colonel, he could start playing 100% german mercs on EP tomorrow.
Another thing is that most people discussing here have climbed up the ladder since RE and at a higher level it is always less fun. If Kaiser didn't mind dropping down to colonel, he could start playing 100% german mercs on EP tomorrow.
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Re: RAGEQUITTING AOE3
everytime I play a game on RE, it just reminds me of why I play EP. RE is an awful experience 95% of the time.
Re: RAGEQUITTING AOE3
1. If a map has high res, tp line, and a lot of in base res a map is considered a "competitive map" which, interpreted means "germany and france"
2. If a map is low res but tp line its a "offensive map" so just iro russia and aztec, sometimes india dominate.
3. If a low res no tp map is made its called "re map" and its just a dutch india spam - think cascade range
4. High res but no tp map. I like these map types are interesting but thats just because my civ pool is good on these maps. Gran Chaco and Pampas Sierras are like this and are imo fantastic maps. But no tp make the france-german collective upset- otto too but no one cries about otto lol
5. Any attempts at unusual layouts or resource distribution to mitigate these map types favouring a single playstyle get called "too non-standard" (think Klondike).
Fraser River was probably the best addition to the map pool recently - two seperate tp lines, forced map control while still having enough safe res for a semi. Great games to watch.
The biggest issue though is that no one wants to test maps or just theorycraft without ever playing them.
2. If a map is low res but tp line its a "offensive map" so just iro russia and aztec, sometimes india dominate.
3. If a low res no tp map is made its called "re map" and its just a dutch india spam - think cascade range
4. High res but no tp map. I like these map types are interesting but thats just because my civ pool is good on these maps. Gran Chaco and Pampas Sierras are like this and are imo fantastic maps. But no tp make the france-german collective upset- otto too but no one cries about otto lol
5. Any attempts at unusual layouts or resource distribution to mitigate these map types favouring a single playstyle get called "too non-standard" (think Klondike).
Fraser River was probably the best addition to the map pool recently - two seperate tp lines, forced map control while still having enough safe res for a semi. Great games to watch.
The biggest issue though is that no one wants to test maps or just theorycraft without ever playing them.
Re: RAGEQUITTING AOE3
It does. EP QS uses standard esoc maps since forever.n0el wrote:Already works I thinkLukas_L99 wrote:Is there a way to implement random ep maps on ep qs?
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- Gendarme
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Re: RAGEQUITTING AOE3
I mean beyond the balance problems, RE has a better mix. EP + maps turned some more aggressive civs into more boomy civs. Actually it ultimately made almost all civs more boomy, as rushing for map control just isn't viable anymore unless you're a dedicated rush civ. For example xbow/pike strats as Germany or musk/huss as France have almost completely disappeared. On top of that, India is far more boomy, Otto tends to FF more than it goes colonial, Sioux became a normal FF civ, Spain often is just an eco FF variant. There's a bunch of these changes, on top of the maps, that makes it feel like the overwhelming majority of the civs goes eco semi-FF.iNcog wrote:lol you think?RefluxSemantic wrote:It just felt like the civ diversity was better. RE has a pretty nice mix of aggro/boomy/FF civs, and EP didn't really improve on that to say the very least.Show hidden quotes
I can click into a game with any civ on EP and feel okay about it. Obviously my civ pool isn't that deep but my EP civ pool is a lot better than my RE civ pool which is like India/China/Aztec. e.g. civs that either don't need map control or can take it.
Now of course RE is shit, you get mapscrewed and some civs are super OP and some civs are super weak, but beyond that I think it has more diversity. EP has done some amount of unwarranted standardizing. I'm sad about that, because to me it's more interesting to face different approaches, where I have to understand and exploit my advantages. When both civs semi-FF there is still some of this strategic aspect, but it is strongly diminished.
- vividlyplain
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Re: RAGEQUITTING AOE3
edeholland wrote:I do understand it can be very draining, I didn't deny that. I'm responding to his point that there is "no point in donating time" which is not true.iNcog wrote:Ede, you need to realize that it can be very draining to help out. There are many good reasons to help out, it's very fulfilling, but it's a double-edged sword. If you put hours of work into maps only to get a few people talk mad shit about them, how is that going to feel good? It feels like a waste of time. Our mapmakers have always been the butt of criticism that is slightly too vehement imo.Show hidden quotes
for many reasons (maybe i shouldn't care about most of it) the fulfillment is outweighed by the drama and bullshitiNcog wrote:whyvividlyplain wrote:there's honestly no point to making maps for this community or donating time to help run events, etciNcog wrote:You could probably make more aggressive metas with maps too. but when we get those people complain
i have enough "draining" me in real-life i don't need a stressful hobby too
Re: RAGEQUITTING AOE3
I feel ya brother. Well just take a break from the draining part of it (which is being productive) and just enjoy the community a bit. :)vividlyplain wrote:edeholland wrote:I do understand it can be very draining, I didn't deny that. I'm responding to his point that there is "no point in donating time" which is not true.Show hidden quotesfor many reasons (maybe i shouldn't care about most of it) the fulfillment is outweighed by the drama and bullshitiNcog wrote:whyShow hidden quotes
i have enough "draining" me in real-life i don't need a stressful hobby too
- jorgeguerra
- Crossbow
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Re: RAGEQUITTING AOE3
People that don't resign until you send spies or win in trade monopoly are the worst thing ever happened to aoe.....wait there are the alt+d individuals, those are the worst.
Re: RAGEQUITTING AOE3
@Mitoe
In what way was it previously possible to outplay an opponent and now it is no longer possible?
In what way was it previously possible to outplay an opponent and now it is no longer possible?
Re: RAGEQUITTING AOE3
I suspect he's referencing the rather formulaic builds that players tend to use FF/Semi-FF these days versus more reactionary build orders/strategies that are more on the fly. Because TPs and Age 3 are so good right now, there's not a ton of incentive to do anything but those types of builds, which are really structured due the nature of needing to time builds/cards/xp to make them work. It doesn't help that more "non-formulaic" civs (e.g. India, etc) are weaker than others in the current patch.iNcog wrote:@Mitoe
In what way was it previously possible to outplay an opponent and now it is no longer possible?
Re: RAGEQUITTING AOE3
That makes sense.....Zutazuta wrote:I suspect he's referencing the rather formulaic builds that players tend to use FF/Semi-FF these days versus more reactionary build orders/strategies that are more on the fly. Because TPs and Age 3 are so good right now, there's not a ton of incentive to do anything but those types of builds, which are really structured due the nature of needing to time builds/cards/xp to make them work. It doesn't help that more "non-formulaic" civs (e.g. India, etc) are weaker than others in the current patch.iNcog wrote:@Mitoe
In what way was it previously possible to outplay an opponent and now it is no longer possible?
I'm just not sure how to make it so that razor sharp builds aren't win-all. Tricky thing is, sharp builds are part of every high level RTS.
I just don't know enough about the game.
Re: RAGEQUITTING AOE3
Personally, I think it's because other play styles just aren't rewarding anymore (sometimes "in the name of balance"). Even civs that used to play differently (Russia, Japan, China, India, Port, Iro) are more or less doing the same things as the cookie cutter euro civ builds. Make a TP, ship crates, age with some sort of defensive military building, and roll out with 2 cannons and skirm/goon at 12 minutes.iNcog wrote:That makes sense.....Zutazuta wrote:I suspect he's referencing the rather formulaic builds that players tend to use FF/Semi-FF these days versus more reactionary build orders/strategies that are more on the fly. Because TPs and Age 3 are so good right now, there's not a ton of incentive to do anything but those types of builds, which are really structured due the nature of needing to time builds/cards/xp to make them work. It doesn't help that more "non-formulaic" civs (e.g. India, etc) are weaker than others in the current patch.iNcog wrote:@Mitoe
In what way was it previously possible to outplay an opponent and now it is no longer possible?
I'm just not sure how to make it so that razor sharp builds aren't win-all. Tricky thing is, sharp builds are part of every high level RTS.
I just don't know enough about the game.
Re: RAGEQUITTING AOE3
I think the TP with the extra shipments allows you to fortress just that easily and you can't organically produce enough units to threaten that very easily either.Zutazuta wrote:Personally, I think it's because other play styles just aren't rewarding anymore (sometimes "in the name of balance"). Even civs that used to play differently (Russia, Japan, China, India, Port, Iro) are more or less doing the same things as the cookie cutter euro civ builds. Make a TP, ship crates, age with some sort of defensive military building, and roll out with 2 cannons and skirm/goon at 12 minutes.iNcog wrote:That makes sense.....Show hidden quotes
I'm just not sure how to make it so that razor sharp builds aren't win-all. Tricky thing is, sharp builds are part of every high level RTS.
I just don't know enough about the game.
Re: RAGEQUITTING AOE3
It's more than just that though. Shadow techs, 2 falc shipments, access to skirm and goon for most civs (superior comp in almost every way) etc. all compound the problem. Not saying there's an easy fix for it either btw. FP 1.2 certainly tried to fix that specific problem, which resulted in gameplay revolving mostly around age 2 and huss/musk, which isn't necessarily better.iNcog wrote:I think the TP with the extra shipments allows you to fortress just that easily and you can't organically produce enough units to threaten that very easily either.Zutazuta wrote:Personally, I think it's because other play styles just aren't rewarding anymore (sometimes "in the name of balance"). Even civs that used to play differently (Russia, Japan, China, India, Port, Iro) are more or less doing the same things as the cookie cutter euro civ builds. Make a TP, ship crates, age with some sort of defensive military building, and roll out with 2 cannons and skirm/goon at 12 minutes.Show hidden quotes
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