Why do some players have awful pcs?

[Dolan]

Yes, you do, dude. The matchmaking is done by ESO, otherwise why do you think ESO exists? That's what GameRanger does too. You can't form a p2p connection without one of these two conditions:

1. there's a matchmaking service that intermediates the formation of the p2p connection
2. there's a host IP that everyone knows and uses (the complicated in-game method AOE3 provides) to connect directly to that host IP, as a client, until the p2p connection is formed.

[RefluxSemantic]

I don't think it is PC lag most of the time unless you are reaching 20min 3v3 games where everyone is at 200pop. Biggest issue is just p2p. You can have 1 Asian player, 1 Euro and 1 NA and of course it is going to lag like shit because everyone will have minimum 200ping to each other. That is without including the additional 1-3 players. Also it is an old game and old games are often played because they are on old computers so naturally you are quite likely to play against someone with an old computer that starts to clunk out at max pop. Once again you are limited by the weakest link. The game can't run quicker for everyone else so naturally the odds aren't in your favour if it is a 3v3.

So explain to me why kickass always lags right when the big fight happens? I guess the other option would be that he's doing the lag on purpose.

[lordraphael]

It's location rather than PC that cause lag.

100% this. If you would have been on LAN with every player you played on ESO with instead of online, you would drool at how well the game runs. It's 99% the distance and p2p tbh, especially nowadays where no one runs around with 2006 computers anymore.

Because Microsoft scrimped on server costs and instead of having regional servers (like Riot does with LoL), they just set up one single location (USA) for their servers.

That's unfair to say, 99% of games were p2p back then, no one set up servers (except MMOs).

I was at lan last year and altho they had pretty great pcs, fully capable of handling aoe3, it still lagged occasionally. Not much but def noticeable, especially when you play in a lag free environment like a LAN , youll notice even tiny lag spikes. I remember how surprised i was about that becuase i always thought LAN = NO LAG, which is the case if your pc can handle the game.

[Dolan]

If aoe3 only had 5 units per player at all times, a pure server-mode would work perfectly. That's why LoL or Dota 2 work without relying on p2p. In an rts game, the whole game state must be synchronized across all participating clients. Can't have thinking one client there are 5 uhlans on point x and client 2 thinking there are none.

Yes. But then a big character in an FPS has a lot more animations and subtle movements to synch across multiple players (it can jump in the air and be in a position that depends on different angles, which need to be taken into account when you're aiming to shoot). It's not like in AOE3 where each unit has like 5-6 animations and a few units stances and can only move on an (x, y) map grid.

In an FPS there are also A LOT more obstacles on a map than in an RTS, where maps are typically more open. In an FPS you have complicated structures, buildings, rooms, etc etc.

[aaryngend]

I was at lan last year and altho they had pretty great pcs, fully capable of handling aoe3, it still lagged occasionally. Not much but def noticeable, especially when you play in a lag free environment like a LAN , youll notice even tiny lag spikes. I remember how surprised i was about that becuase i always thought LAN = NO LAG, which is the case if your pc can handle the game.

LAN means no network lag. If people have badly configured games/system, weak hardware in general and/or the game itself has a pretty bad network component causing slowdowns here and there, you will find the occassional lag. Still, compare the "lag" you experienced at LAN to what you experience online
What's important about the cpu is the core clock, you shouldn't be below 3 GHz for aoe3. Many of those laptop cpus have like 2,2 GHz and a lot of cores, but that won't cut it for aoe3. Even newer gens IPC gain doesn't help that much in this case. I recommend at least 3,3 Ghz of a i3/i5/i7 cpu or the AMD equivalent to be able to run aoe3 very well even in bigger battles.

If aoe3 only had 5 units per player at all times, a pure server-mode would work perfectly. That's why LoL or Dota 2 work without relying on p2p. In an rts game, the whole game state must be synchronized across all participating clients. Can't have thinking one client there are 5 uhlans on point x and client 2 thinking there are none.

Yes. But then a big character in an FPS has a lot more animations and subtle movements to synch across multiple players. It's not like in AOE3 where each unit has like 5-6 animations and a few units stances and can only move on an X/Y map grid.

Animations and movements don't need to be synchronized across all clients. You do that locally. There is also a smoothing algorithm for when people have a not so stable connection.
If a person lags out in an fps, it doesn't matter for the rest, they can just continue.
Aoe3 has hundreds of units at a time, can't compare that to an FPS at all.

[RefluxSemantic]

I think the limiting factor is processor speed, and in the past 10 years processors haven't really improved that much really. I've said this before, but my top end 2011 processor is still somewhat competitive: benchmark says its only like 70% worse than the best processor out there. Compare that to the videocards; the top end video cards are now +1000%.

I don't know the fine details of this, but I think this effect is amplified by the fact that nowadays processors focus on efficient multi-core processing. So if you buy a modern budget processor, you might actually get a pretty mediocre performance in aoe3. A budget processor is still not amazing for such a cpu intensive game, and the focus on multiple cores might hurt (maybe someone else can chime in here with more details).

[Dolan]

Yea, I think when AOE3 came out, dual-core CPUs were just getting on the market. So, most likely AOE3 wasn't made to run on multiple core CPUs. So yeah, maybe processor frequency is the most impactful factor, in terms of how fast AOE3 runs.

[lordraphael]

I was at lan last year and altho they had pretty great pcs, fully capable of handling aoe3, it still lagged occasionally. Not much but def noticeable, especially when you play in a lag free environment like a LAN , youll notice even tiny lag spikes. I remember how surprised i was about that becuase i always thought LAN = NO LAG, which is the case if your pc can handle the game.

LAN means no network lag. If people have badly configured games/system, weak hardware in general and/or the game itself has a pretty bad network component causing slowdowns here and there, you will find the occassional lag. Still, compare the "lag" you experienced at LAN to what you experience online
What's important about the cpu is the core clock, you shouldn't be below 3 GHz for aoe3. Many of those laptop cpus have like 2,2 GHz and a lot of cores, but that won't cut it for aoe3. Even newer gens IPC gain doesn't help that much in this case. I recommend at least 3,3 Ghz of a i3/i5/i7 cpu or the AMD equivalent to be able to run aoe3 very well even in bigger battles.

If aoe3 only had 5 units per player at all times, a pure server-mode would work perfectly. That's why LoL or Dota 2 work without relying on p2p. In an rts game, the whole game state must be synchronized across all participating clients. Can't have thinking one client there are 5 uhlans on point x and client 2 thinking there are none.

Yes. But then a big character in an FPS has a lot more animations and subtle movements to synch across multiple players. It's not like in AOE3 where each unit has like 5-6 animations and a few units stances and can only move on an X/Y map grid.

Animations and movements don't need to be synchronized across all clients. You do that locally. There is also a smoothing algorithm for when people have a not so stable connection.
If a person lags out in an fps, it doesn't matter for the rest, they can just continue.
Aoe3 has hundreds of units at a time, can't compare that to an FPS at all.

i fully understand how LAN works, my point is I played on pretty damn good gaming systems and there was still lag ==> pc lag, which means even if you have a good pc, you might still experience pc lag. So its not just that easy to say, as OP claimed, that people have "bad pcs " and thats why aoe 3 lags. id even say when i play someone from germany like lukas and we both have reasonable stable internet connections theres almost no difference compared to a LAN setting.

[chris1089]

There is also the fact that one can play against the computer with little or no lag, but seem to have lots of computer lag online. (That's what it seems like to me)

[RefluxSemantic]

When you have like 400+ units fighting in one screen the game just stops functioning properly. It's like in treaty, I think no matter how good the computers are, treaty will always have some weird sort of lag where the engine just seems overloaded.

[aaryngend]

I think the limiting factor is processor speed, and in the past 10 years processors haven't really improved that much really. I've said this before, but my top end 2011 processor is still somewhat competitive: benchmark says its only like 70% worse than the best processor out there. Compare that to the videocards; the top end video cards are now +1000%.

I don't know the fine details of this, but I think this effect is amplified by the fact that nowadays processors focus on efficient multi-core processing. So if you buy a modern budget processor, you might actually get a pretty mediocre performance in aoe3. A budget processor is still not amazing for such a cpu intensive game, and the focus on multiple cores might hurt (maybe someone else can chime in here with more details).

It's not just the processor speed, aoe3 functions in a very dull way in that it doesn't utilize the little things that got built into more modern cpus, gen after gen. So the only thing which it can 100% convert into brute performance is the IPC (Instructions per Cycle) and the processor clock speed.
Newer games utilize them very well, older games not so much. Aoe3 like many other games from the early 2000s utilize MMX2 & SSE, but any improvements after that lie idle.
Luckily all games which are cpu-limited benefit from high-speed RAM and clocks, even moreso when the cpu is the bottleneck.

Yea, I think when AOE3 came out, dual-core CPUs were just getting on the market. So, most likely AOE3 wasn't made to run on multiple core CPUs. So yeah, maybe processor frequency is the most impactful factor, in terms of how fast AOE3 runs.

The first dualcore desktop Intel CPUs came out in 2006 (AMD was a bit faster with multicore coming out in 2005 and 64bit-processors even in 2003). It usually takes 1-2 years until they slowly become the norm. We all know how long ppl play on old pcs... So it wasn't until 2010 when most pcs at least had a dualcore cpu inside.
So no way aoe3 could have been optimized for that. Can't optimize for the future.

i fully understand how LAN works, my point is I played on pretty damn good gaming systems and there was still lag ==> pc lag, which means even if you have a good pc, you might still experience pc lag. So its not just that easy to say, as OP claimed, that people have "bad pcs " and thats why aoe 3 lags. id even say when i play someone from germany like lukas and we both have reasonable stable internet connections theres almost no difference compared to a LAN setting.

You forget that for the LAN, all PCs probably had OBS and capture tools installed and operational. That also takes a big chunk of available performance while rendering the game. Unless you guys just cloned the display output and had another PC make it feasible to observe the players in firstperson-view and capturing the whole thing, without taking a performance hit.
Since the game has no dedicated observer mode, I think the way we observe nowadays also puts a strain on the whole game. We weren't meant to spectate the whole game with one person auto-resigning at the start. Maybe this is where the bug occurs that replays play in a very slow fashion??
What OP claimed and complained about is the horrible kind of lag and huge amounts of command lag, not your everyday lite sluggishness. He is just surprised how badly the game can run in the year 2020.
I say that even those bad PCs can run aoe3 early game lag-free from a performance point of view, but fail to deliver because of internet stability, distance & the horrible network code of aoe3, so even the early game can become laggy thanks to this.
I'm also very certain that people have too much bloatsoftware installed causing higher DPC latency. Laptops are OEM so they use all kind of badly maintenanced chipset drivers and tools, causing a laggy experience and being more prone to issues from the get-go. People also often fail to disable the settings on their laptops causing them to conserve energy and use less of their power to keep a higher battery uptime. They also run hot and throttle their cpu & gpu to combat overheating. Too many also don't even have a dedicated GPU. Game devs don't optimize too heavily for older onboard GPUs, too much of a hassle and they just ger basic support. Newer ones come close to dedicated GPUs in terms of dev support.

[evilcheadar]

they can't afford good pc cause they don't have their priorities straight

Considering you haven't bought a house yet, neither do you.

Brutal

[wardyb1]

I don't think it is PC lag most of the time unless you are reaching 20min 3v3 games where everyone is at 200pop. Biggest issue is just p2p. You can have 1 Asian player, 1 Euro and 1 NA and of course it is going to lag like shit because everyone will have minimum 200ping to each other. That is without including the additional 1-3 players. Also it is an old game and old games are often played because they are on old computers so naturally you are quite likely to play against someone with an old computer that starts to clunk out at max pop. Once again you are limited by the weakest link. The game can't run quicker for everyone else so naturally the odds aren't in your favour if it is a 3v3.

So explain to me why kickass always lags right when the big fight happens? I guess the other option would be that he's doing the lag on purpose.

Because he probably has a shit PC. I'm not saying it can't be PC lag, I'm just generalising that over every player from PR0-50 that most lag is ping.

[aaryngend]

Some people have a lag switch though and they make use of it whenever it benefits them.

[Goodspeed]

I've never understood why there's so many players, especially on RE, that seem to lag like shit especially on team. It just makes no sense to me that a game that's as easy to run as aoe3 still lags like crap on people's pcs, are people just running pcs from 2003 or something?

I think the financial health of your average UK citizen may not be entirely representative of what things are like in the rest of the world. Most people can't afford to get a new PC every few years. AoE3's engine is not known for how efficient it is, either.

DE is gonna make this a whole lot worse. MP better be server-based

[princeofkabul]

Most people in the world can't afford a new pc every few years, however I think most of aoe 3 players are from first world countries. I'm doubtful it's about money. @Goodspeed

[aaryngend]

Most people in the world can't afford a new pc every few years, however I think most of aoe 3 players are from first world countries. I'm doubtful it's about money. @Goodspeed

A PC that runs aoe3 perfectly fine even in large battles costs less than 400 bucks. I can see some countries having problems affording one (where a PC costs as much as 6months-1year of wage). Even then any PC from the last 8 years can run this game easily. Dunno what your issue is. Just make sure to not get a shitty CPU and you're set.
If you can't afford a PC every decade then you got a whole lot of other things to worry about. Also stop with this laptop bullshit, they are definitely not meant for gaming, no matter how much marketing they put behind it. Get a cheap desktop which has more performance for half the price and a high base clock which you can easily upgrade, even if you don't do anything else with it and use your laptop most of the time for other things.
Just so much easier to upgrade a PC for cheap compared to a laptop.

I just can't imagine myself staring at 13-15" screens for hours on end. To me laptops are for people constantly on the move and for students/workers. 99% of the time I game in my own room where a laptop is not needed. Also helps psychologically that you can't game on a laptop as you will be more likely to do productive tasks with it.
People are just very cheap when it comes to tech. I know people who overpay hundreds/thousands of bucks over the course of a year, but god forbid you need a new technological gadget.

[fightinfrenchman]

I've never understood why there's so many players, especially on RE, that seem to lag like shit especially on team. It just makes no sense to me that a game that's as easy to run as aoe3 still lags like crap on people's pcs, are people just running pcs from 2003 or something?

When I actually played I usually did it on a shitty laptop, and my cat would sleep next to it covering up the fan so it would be badly overheating the whole time

[lordraphael]

Most people in the world can't afford a new pc every few years, however I think most of aoe 3 players are from first world countries. I'm doubtful it's about money. @Goodspeed

A PC that runs aoe3 perfectly fine even in large battles costs less than 400 bucks. I can see some countries having problems affording one (where a PC costs as much as 6months-1year of wage). Even then any PC from the last 8 years can run this game easily. Dunno what your issue is. Just make sure to not get a shitty CPU and you're set.
If you can't afford a PC every decade then you got a whole lot of other things to worry about. Also stop with this laptop bullshit, they are definitely not meant for gaming, no matter how much marketing they put behind it. Get a cheap desktop which has more performance for half the price and a high base clock which you can easily upgrade, even if you don't do anything else with it and use your laptop most of the time for other things.
Just so much easier to upgrade a PC for cheap compared to a laptop.

I just can't imagine myself staring at 13-15" screens for hours on end. To me laptops are for people constantly on the move and for students/workers. 99% of the time I game in my own room where a laptop is not needed. Also helps psychologically that you can't game on a laptop as you will be more likely to do productive tasks with it.
People are just very cheap when it comes to tech. I know people who overpay hundreds/thousands of bucks over the course of a year, but god forbid you need a new technological gadget.

theres a difference between being able to afford a pc and being able to afford and buy a pc, theres a plethora of things one might rather invest his money into than in a new pc. Also i think times are long gone where people bought new pcs to play certain games. THeres to many alternatives to ever buy a pc to play game X

[aaryngend]

theres a difference between being able to afford a pc and being able to afford and buy a pc, theres a plethora of things one might rather invest his money into than in a new pc.

We all know certain things have a much higher priority than gaming. But is it to much too ask for to buy a PC once every 5-8 years? They age quite well nowadays.

Also i think times are long gone where people bought new pcs to play certain games. THeres to many alternatives to ever buy a pc to play game X

What are those alternatives? Mobile games? Consoles? Consoles cost a lot too, especially the games.
Aoe3 is not Metro: Exodus or FarCry 5, having a decent CPU is all you need.
Ppl still upgrade their rig for certain games, look at those MMORPG players that make sure to get a PC that runs their fav MMORPG well, some do this for MOBAs or Fortnite as well.

Apart from their PC or laptop breaking down, that is the reason to upgrade: want to run X or Y.

[Panmaster]

I Aoe3 like many other games from the early 2000s utilize MMX2 & SSE, but any improvements after that lie idle.

AOE3 still uses the obsolete FPU and doesn't use SSE (introduced in 1999). I think MMX was dead even before 2005.

[StandardOfUr]

A lot of people play AoE because it's an older game. It will run on older cheaper computers, and those people are less likely to have fast internet as well.

[Theodore]

@aaryngend Your train of thoughts is too far up on the tech track.
Seriously, many people just don't care that much about their computers. Look up the sales figures, dektop PCs for consumers are a minority of the sold computers. A laptop is the standard computer to buy, soon it will be a tablet. Even mobiles have overtaken laptops / computers when it comes to media use. A film enthusiast will cringe if you tell them you are watching a movie on your mobile.
Or think of people into bikes. Many can't understand why people still ride shitty bicycles. It is so cheap to buy a decent one they say. Just get a used one, no problem. But people just don't care and still ride bikes with not enough tire pressure, horrible setup and squeaky chains.

[iNcog]

A lot of people play AoE because it's an older game. It will run on older cheaper computers, and those people are less likely to have fast internet as well.

of course with DE this is no longer a thing somehow

[Mitoe]

@aaryngend Your train of thoughts is too far up on the tech track.
Seriously, many people just don't care that much about their computers. Look up the sales figures, dektop PCs for consumers are a minority of the sold computers. A laptop is the standard computer to buy, soon it will be a tablet. Even mobiles have overtaken laptops / computers when it comes to media use. A film enthusiast will cringe if you tell them you are watching a movie on your mobile.
Or think of people into bikes. Many can't understand why people still ride shitty bicycles. It is so cheap to buy a decent one they say. Just get a used one, no problem. But people just don't care and still ride bikes with not enough tire pressure, horrible setup and squeaky chains.

Yeah, about 50-60% of the people I work with only own a phone, and no computer or laptop whatsoever.