Radical suggestions for AoE3

[iNcog]

What I propose in this thread are radical changes to AOE3, after having played AOE2 for some time now. Will

Vills get their cost slashed across the board. 80f vills, perhaps even as low as 60f or 50f.

Houses cost less as well. 70w to 50w even.

The idea behind this change is improve what options civilizations have.

I think in AOE3 you can produce vills out of a single TC at a time. it's just not possible to overboom or overinvest in economy.

Similarly, changes could be found that would make it possible to overinvest in military or tech options. Right now, the optimized builds make rushes, booms and other styles irrelevant. the right way to play is a clean semi-FF build that gets good economy and a big unit mass at a specific point in time

[RefluxSemantic]

Where can I vote no?

[iNcog]

Zoi was too moderate and so is the current EP. I propose to explore some more vast and fundamental design changes.

I dont think these will go through or be popular, but I would like to at the very least explore some other directions. Right now we are sticking to smaller changes which is a more stable thing to do for sure.

Also I would remove snare. Make TCs cheaper.

[RefluxSemantic]

If you don't like aoe3, you should go play a different game or play some mod.

[iNcog]

This is more like a separate research thing than an actual EP. but the curiousity is killing me, especially after talking to goodspeed about it and also playing AOE2, an absolutely amazing game in its own right.

[iNcog]

If you don't like aoe3, you should go play a different game or play some mod.

Get out of my thread. Obviously this is a mod. Not the next EP.

[iNcog]

I wanted to triple post cuz I am on my phone lol but could not

[Hazza54321]

Eh part of the reason i dislike ep atm is that its too far from Re, trying to implement changes to make it more aoe2ish is just turning it into a different game. Aoe3 and aoe2 are way different and were all here playing aoe3 for a reason.

[iNcog]

Eh part of the reason i dislike ep atm is that its too far from Re, trying to implement changes to make it more aoe2ish is just turning it into a different game. Aoe3 and aoe2 are way different and were all here playing aoe3 for a reason.

1

This isn't an EP proposal, more like a different aoe3. Which is not what people want at all. 100%

Should have posted this in AOE3 general or something, now that I think of it.

[[Armag] diarouga]

"Zoi was too moderate" and he still one of the reasons he was unpopular was too many changes/too far from the RE.

[RefluxSemantic]

If you don't like aoe3, you should go play a different game or play some mod.

Get out of my thread. Obviously this is a mod. Not the next EP.

Then why did you post in the ESOC Patch discussion and why did you mention EP in the title?

[Riotcoke]

If you want to play aoe2, play aoe2.

[I_HaRRiiSoN_I]

the ratio of costs for villagers, houses and military units are very similar across the games. Im thinking in particular of Man at Arms / Musketeer, and Scout Calvary / Hussar. its like going to aoe2 forums and suggesting every civ to have 35f villagers

[Peachrocks]

Really I think the thing that needs shaken up is the huge amount of content that's just not viable. Just little by little increasing viability and making the 'surprise' choices more capable of upsetting the established order.

Fact is, there's a lot of people who are incredibly conservative which is why the changes thus far are so moderate as to not alienate them. I'm not a fan of such things but alas. Given time there is hope things might become more progressive. There are also some who are very ignorant of the stuff that's not viable but it simply doesn't matter because of how awful it is. Even if some of it was slightly less awful, it might be able to catch some people out but right now, no, not so much.

It is interesting you mention aoe2, aoe2's games do go a bit differently in general. Like Aoe3's games on average have a very definitive pattern. Fights in the center of the map around mid-late age 2 or early-mid age 3 usually decide things because the map control advantage as well as the army/resource loss is impossible to overcome. Games very rarely reach age 4. Aoe2s games are way more varied in how they end and the only units that don't see any play at all are the age 3 Longswordsmen and Siege towers which were deliberately designed to be extremely niche. In aoe3's case, way more of the game DOESN'T see play, then the part it does.

Also trading posts were supposed to be one way you over invested in economy but thanks to the 200w TP change, these became part of the meta rather then an extension of the game. Ottomans design is basically hamstrung by their inability or at least weak ability to invest in their economy which is why the sentiment of 'fuck Otto' is a thing.

[kevinitalien]

"Zoi was too moderate" and he still one of the reasons he was unpopular was too many changes/too far from the RE.

you approve of fixed crates is far from the RE

[edeholland]

I think in AOE3 you can produce vills out of a single TC at a time. it's just not possible to overboom or overinvest in economy.

But cheaper villagers make it even more impossible to overboom, right? Because they pay off even quicker. So how would that help?

[iNcog]

I just cannot help but notice that you can't overinvest in a certain path and lose the game that. Everything in AOE3 is the same. Age send wood crates send coin crates skirm/goon/falc bot into a win or loss.

Obviously I over simplify it but there was another thread that mentioned that specifically.

so...... idk...... just spit balling ^^

and spurring discussion. partly the clickbait title is me being on my phone and unable to articulate a proper post in the right section. the other reason is to clickbait and discuss these specifics. even if nothing stems from it

[Peachrocks]

Eh part of the reason i dislike ep atm is that its too far from Re, trying to implement changes to make it more aoe2ish is just turning it into a different game. Aoe3 and aoe2 are way different and were all here playing aoe3 for a reason.

To be fair RE still exists, you could just equally say if you want RE like game play go play RE. Granted I know it's not that simple and the desired direction of EP comes from taste. I think RE and numerous of the things about RE as well as trying to be 'close' to RE are a mistake but obviously this is not a widely held view.

Any game worth it's salt these days develops and becomes something else. It's meta, its strategies, they never remain too stagnant for long.

[edeholland]

If anything, you should make villager train much faster & cheaper & have no villager limit & gather slower. I think then it becomes an interesting balance between whether you train villagers or not.

[[Armag] diarouga]

"Zoi was too moderate" and he still one of the reasons he was unpopular was too many changes/too far from the RE.

you approve of fixed crates is far from the RE

It's not really far from the RE. The game is still the same as on the RE, except you play on a specific crate start.

[Aykin Haraka]

where is the thread about how we should rename the game ?

[iNcog]

I think in AOE3 you can produce vills out of a single TC at a time. it's just not possible to overboom or overinvest in economy.

But cheaper villagers make it even more impossible to overboom, right? Because they pay off even quicker. So how would that help?

My reasoning is, which could be faulty, admittedly:

Go semiFF and put down 3 TCs immediately. pump out villagers. it's a bit expensive to do that today with 100f vills. but if they were cheaper it would be viable.

or would it? Idk. I wanna know

[iNcog]

If anything, you should make villager train much faster & cheaper & have no villager limit & gather slower. I think then it becomes an interesting balance between whether you train villagers or not.

Oh yeah get rid of the vill cap too.

no more snare, get rid of vill cap, get rid of TC cap hmmmmm

see what the game looks like from there


also yes, this is no longer aoe3. I get it

[Goodspeed]

I posted my 2c on this in another fairly recent thread about AoE3 design, which has some interesting discussions: viewtopic.php?f=314&t=20135

Show hidden quotes

If some of the more glaring design and balance problems ever get fixed in AoE3 and map variety is increased, the shipment system and civ variety basically guarantees superior strategic depth, but until then meh.

You mean implement EP? or beyond that?

Way beyond that

Care to share?

One major design problem in AoE3 (imo) is that after colonial age there is not much of a balance between economy and military. There is too much focus on military. Booming beyond what your civ bonus allows (20 manor brit, 20 shrine jap, 5 bank Dutch etcetera) is rarely worth it. I think to balance this out a little better, immediately you reduce vill cost to 50 across the board and reduce TC cost. You also buff cards like medicine, the covered wagon (maybe you move this to colonial) etc, and add some more creative cards that boost your economy and aren't just boring percentage increases like royal mint. Rebalance from there.

The second thing you do is make sure every unit and every tech is actually viable, and fix broken units in every age. This includes a major overhaul of late game balance, which is currently a clusterfuck.

Some other ideas off the top of my head:
- Remove minutemen
- Much cheaper mills (say 200w)
- Remove all build limits, most importantly on TCs, outposts and warships (edit: make outposts and warships cost population instead)
- Outposts should do more damage with units garissoned in them
- Add upgrades to the arsenal that are actually relevant in the early game

Edited in later:
- Remove snare
- Change many "unique" units to make them actually unique. Random example: Give ruyters melee resist and a strong melee anti-cav attack

There's much more but that's all I could come up with on short notice.

This was obviously always way beyond EP's scope, and most of it is almost certainly beyond DE's scope. But I think this is what you actually need to make AoE3 the best it can be.

[edeholland]

Villager/town center/tashunke prowler/envoy/house (except for Brits/Japan/China) build limits can all be removed honestly