Rice Paddy coin gather at 0.31

Peru VictorXV
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Rice Paddy coin gather at 0.31

Post by VictorXV »

Edit: After testing some stuff I found out that Rice Paddies gather slower than they were supossed to. They gather at a base rate of 0.31 instead of 0.34, as written in the code. This kinda becomes a problem with multipliers in later ages.

Hi everyone, I am new and I wanted to ask something. I tried to search an issue about this but I couldn't find anything. So ... Am I going crazy or this issue has never been spotted?

Rice Paddies gather coin at 0.31 instead of 0.34. I ran some test like many people here has tried for Mills and Plantations, but I did it for Rice Paddies. Everything is in single player.

10 vills on RP on food: ~0.507
10 vill on Mill: ~0.466
10 vills on RP on coin: ~0.310
10 vills on Plantation: ~0.357
1 vill on RP on coin: ~0.306
1 vill on Plantation: ~0.377
(I wouldn't trust the third decimal though)

I don't want to begin to ask if it's fair or not, or if it should be changed ... That could be another conversation. For now, I just want to know if someone has found the same or if someone could test it.

The only thing I think could explain this is the following line in the protoy.xml file:

Code: Select all

<Rate type ='ypRicePaddy' resource ='Gold'>[b]0.31[/b]0000</Rate>
That is part of the description of these units:

Code: Select all


<Unit id ='1304' name ='ypHCChineseFarmer'>
<Unit id ='1305' name ='ypHCChineseMan'>
<Unit id ='1306' name ='ypHCChineseMonk'>
<Unit id ='1307' name ='ypHCChineseNobleman'>
<Unit id ='1308' name ='ypHCChineseNoblewoman'>
<Unit id ='1309' name ='ypHCChineseWoman'>
<Unit id ='1310' name ='ypHCChineseStreetPerformer'>
<Unit id ='1311' name ='ypHCJapaneseStreetPerformer'>
... etc for a total of 22 matches

And this line:

Code: Select all

<Rate type ='ypRicePaddy' resource ='Gold'>[b]0.34[/b]0000</Rate>
exist only for 6 units:

Code: Select all


<Unit id ='284' name ='Settler'>
<Unit id ='721' name ='SettlerNative'>
<Unit id ='928' name ='ypSettlerAsian'>
<Unit id ='1047' name ='ypSettlerIndian'>
<Unit id ='1130' name ='ypSettlerJapanese'>
<Unit id ='1461' name ='ypSettlerIceCream'>
Maybe the gathering rates get mixed somehow while playing? :hmm:
If the post belongs in other are please move it
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Re: Rice Paddy coin gather at 0.31

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Post by Mitoe »

Finally, the excuse I've needed to buff Asian civs has arrived
Peru VictorXV
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Re: Rice Paddy coin gather at 0.31

Post by VictorXV »

Well yeah ... I mean considering that with 8 vills in Mills/Plantations you get the expected gathering rates of Rice Paddies (0.5/0.34). If the coin gathering rate is not what it's supposed to be, that's kinda of a problem.

Can anyone also test it? :roll:
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Re: Rice Paddy coin gather at 0.31

Post by helln00 »

I do know that sometime a vil on a rice paddy can just sort of stand there and do nothing so that could be part of it. Though the fact that its the same for a single vil is also pretty strange. There is probably some sort of animation glitch.
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Re: Rice Paddy coin gather at 0.31

Post by EAGLEMUT »

Those "ypHC" units are just units displayed in the background of homecities (yp = TAD expansion content; HC = homecity). I don't see how they could affect anything in the actual game.
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Re: Rice Paddy coin gather at 0.31

Post by duckzilla »

So.... the units displayed in the background of homecities actually have gold gather rates.... There must be some exploit here, I feel it.
Whatever is written above: this is no financial advice.

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Re: Rice Paddy coin gather at 0.31

Post by chris1089 »

I think I've heard this before on one of dictators old treaty videos. He says Asian and European vils gather the same rate with no lag, since the European vils have to spend some of their time walking but gather faster. In lag not walking around starts to give an advantage.
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Re: Rice Paddy coin gather at 0.31

Post by VictorXV »

EAGLEMUT wrote:Those "ypHC" units are just units displayed in the background of homecities (yp = TAD expansion content; HC = homecity). I don't see how they could affect anything in the actual game.
Yeah, I kinda expected that they were not supposed to be used... but since they have this gathering rates:

Code: Select all


		<ProtoAction>
<Name>Gather</Name>
<Rate type ='ypBerryBuilding'>0.670000</Rate>
<Rate type ='ypRicePaddy' resource ='Gold'>0.310000</Rate>
<Rate type ='Tree'>0.500000</Rate>
<Rate type ='Plantation'>0.500000</Rate>
<Rate type ='Herdable'>2.000000</Rate>
<Rate type ='Huntable'>0.840000</Rate>
<Rate type ='AbstractMine'>0.600000</Rate>
<Rate type ='BerryBush'>0.670000</Rate>
<Rate type ='Farm'>0.500000</Rate>
<Rate type ='Mill'>0.670000</Rate>
<Rate type ='ypRicePaddy' resource ='Food'>0.500000</Rate>
<Rate type ='AbstractTradeMarket'>1.500000</Rate>
</ProtoAction>
and the only difference with actual settlers/vills is

Code: Select all


		<ProtoAction>
<Name>Gather</Name>
<Rate type ='Tree'>0.500000</Rate>
<Rate type ='AbstractMine'>0.600000</Rate>
<Rate type ='Plantation'>0.500000</Rate>
<Rate type ='Herdable'>2.000000</Rate>
<Rate type ='Huntable'>0.840000</Rate>
<Rate type ='BerryBush'>0.670000</Rate>
<Rate type ='Farm'>0.500000</Rate>
<Rate type ='Mill'>0.670000</Rate>
<Rate type ='ypRicePaddy' resource ='Food'>0.500000</Rate>
<Rate type ='AbstractTradeMarket'>1.500000</Rate>
<Rate type ='ypBerryBuilding'>0.670000</Rate>
<Rate type ='ypRicePaddy' resource ='Gold'>0.340000</Rate>
<Rate type ='ypGroveBuilding'>0.500000</Rate>
</ProtoAction>
the 0.31 to 0.34 Gold in ypRicePaddy.
Maybe it gets mixed somehow... because the Food gathering rate is correct. Im gonna try changing the rate for settlers and see if the game changes :hmm:
chris1089 wrote:I think I've heard this before on one of dictators old treaty videos. He says Asian and European vils gather the same rate with no lag, since the European vils have to spend some of their time walking but gather faster. In lag not walking around starts to give an advantage.
Yes that's true for Mills and RP on food, but plantations seem to gather faster than RP on coin, even with 10vills on plantations, they still gather faster ... at least in my case
Peru VictorXV
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Re: Rice Paddy coin gather at 0.31

Post by VictorXV »

1) There is definetly something wrong in the code.
2) Somehow Rice Paddies gather slower that they were meant.

I just tested this:

I changed the

Code: Select all

<Rate type ='ypRicePaddy' resource ='Gold'>0.310000</Rate>
for the home city units... and the error is not there.

Then I changed the

Code: Select all

<Rate type ='ypRicePaddy' resource ='Gold'>0.340000</Rate>
to 2.00 gathring rate for the villager units. I run some tests and they actually gathered coin at 1.80~1.82.

So ... for 0.34 they gathered at 0.31 and for 2.00 they gathered t 1.81. The proportion is something like 91% of the base gathering rate. But, this does not happend for Food gathering. I changed the 0.50 rate to 1.00 and they gathered at 1.01.

Back to Coin gathering rates:

No upgrades:
10 vills on RP on coin: ~0.310
10 vills on Plantation: ~0.357
1 vill on RP on coin : ~0.306
1 vill on Plantation : ~0.377

all upgrades up to age3 for EU: 10%
all upgrades up to age3 for Asians: 30%
10 vills on RP on coin: ~0.310*1.3 = 0.403
10 vills on Plantation: ~0.357*1.1 = 0.3927
1 vill on RP on coin : ~0.306*1.3 = 0.3978
1 vill on Plantation : ~0.377*1.1 = 0.4147
So age3 no problems.

all upgrades up to age4 for EU: 10% + 50%
all upgrades up to age4 Asians: 30% + 40%
10 vills on RP on coin: ~0.310*1.7 = 0.527
10 vills on Plantation: ~0.357*1.6 = 0.5712
1 vill on RP on coin : ~0.306*1.7 = 0.5202
1 vill on Plantation : ~0.377*1.6 = 0.6032
In age 4 the difference is about 0.05/0.08 more coin gathered in Plantations.

all upgrades up to age5 for EU: 60% + 50%
all upgrades up to age5 Asians: 70% + 50%
10 vills on RP on coin: ~0.310*2.2 = 0.682
10 vills on Plantation: ~0.357*2.1 = 0.7497
1 vill on RP on coin : ~0.306*2.2 = 0.6732
1 vill on Plantation : ~0.377*2.1 = 0.7917
In age 5 the difference is about 0.06/0.12 more coin gathered in Plantations.

What if the gathering rate would be actually 0.34 instead of 0.31?
In age5: 0.34*2.2 = 0.748, practically the same as 10 vills on Plantation.

So what do you think? Have you ever felt that you run out of coin faster when playing Asians civs? Do you even care? xD
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Re: Rice Paddy coin gather at 0.31

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Re: Rice Paddy coin gather at 0.31

Post by EAGLEMUT »

I wonder what difference you'd find on EP with the new gathering system. Could be quite interesting.
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Re: Rice Paddy coin gather at 0.31

Post by Buckethead »

The tech 'YPAAAsianStartingTechs' which is actived by the starting tech of asian cvis (YPAge0Japanese/Indias/Chinese) has this effect :hmm:

Code: Select all


<Effect type="Data2" action="Gather" amount="0.90" subtype="WorkRateSpecific" resource="Gold" unittype="ypRicePaddy" relativity="BasePercent">
<Target type="ProtoUnit">AbstractVillager</Target>
</Effect>
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Re: Rice Paddy coin gather at 0.31

Post by EAGLEMUT »

Oh. Oh no.
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Re: Rice Paddy coin gather at 0.31

Post by richard »

maybe it is because you get export as asian civ? idk
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Re: Rice Paddy coin gather at 0.31

Post by VictorXV »

EAGLEMUT wrote:I wonder what difference you'd find on EP with the new gathering system. Could be quite interesting.
I didnt know it was different. I'll try it later. Did you also changed the way that Asian vills work in Rice Paddies? Where is the file with the new system? :hmm: I guess Mills gather at 0.5 now if theres no walking involved?
Buckethead wrote:The tech 'YPAAAsianStartingTechs' which is actived by the starting tech of asian cvis (YPAge0Japanese/Indias/Chinese) has this effect :hmm:

Code: Select all


<Effect type="Data2" action="Gather" amount="0.90" subtype="WorkRateSpecific" resource="Gold" unittype="ypRicePaddy" relativity="BasePercent">
<Target type="ProtoUnit">AbstractVillager</Target>
</Effect>
That's gotta be the problem for sure.
richard wrote:maybe it is because you get export as asian civ? idk
I don't think so, unless you start with 60% export which is not the case.
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Re: Rice Paddy coin gather at 0.31

Post by helln00 »

w8 so is there literally a piece of code in the game that makes asian vills gather from RP slower? why not just reduce the rate lol
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Re: Rice Paddy coin gather at 0.31

Post by VictorXV »

so ... I finally made time to test this.

for both AD and EP the coin gathering rate of Rice Paddies is 0.30/0.31, which is 90% of 0.34.

Then I changed line 5457 of the techtreey.xml file
Buckethead wrote:The tech 'YPAAAsianStartingTechs' which is actived by the starting tech of asian cvis (YPAge0Japanese/Indias/Chinese) has this effect :hmm:

Code: Select all


<Effect type="Data2" action="Gather" amount="0.90" subtype="WorkRateSpecific" resource="Gold" unittype="ypRicePaddy" relativity="BasePercent">
<Target type="ProtoUnit">AbstractVillager</Target>
</Effect>
I changed it to 2.00 instead of 0.90 and here is the interesting part. In the normal game (AD) Rice Paddy gathered at 0.68/0.69 (twice 0.34 as it is supposed to be). But for EP, the 0.30 persists. So there's definetely a bug in the code. But for some reason it can't be fixed for EP. :hmm:

Should I look for other file?
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Re: Rice Paddy coin gather at 0.31

Post by Buckethead »

@VictorXV EP doesnt use the techtreey.xml but techtreef.xml which can be only be found on DataPF.bar :hmm:
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Re: Rice Paddy coin gather at 0.31

Post by EAGLEMUT »

VictorXV wrote:Where is the file with the new system? :hmm:
It's not in any file that you can see, but basically it was changed in the engine such that villager animations no longer affect the gathering speed, therefore it is more consistent.
I guess Mills gather at 0.5 now if theres no walking involved?
I've done a test of my own and found ~0.511 gather rate on EP, some ~8.25% up from RE.
VictorXV wrote: I changed it to 2.00 instead of 0.90 and here is the interesting part. In the normal game (AD) Rice Paddy gathered at 0.68/0.69 (twice 0.34 as it is supposed to be). But for EP, the 0.30 persists. So there's definetely a bug in the code. But for some reason it can't be fixed for EP. :hmm:

Should I look for other file?
Yeah as Bucket says, EP doesn't use protoy/techtreey files, it has its own files like a separate expansion. Problem is you can't even mod those directly in the same way; they are not, and cannot, be included/overridden from the regular data folder.
Anyway, it is interesting that you found the new gathering system to not affect rice paddies, since some people claimed otherwise.
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Re: Rice Paddy coin gather at 0.31

Post by VictorXV »

EAGLEMUT wrote:
VictorXV wrote:Where is the file with the new system? :hmm:
It's not in any file that you can see, but basically it was changed in the engine such that villager animations no longer affect the gathering speed, therefore it is more consistent.
I guess Mills gather at 0.5 now if theres no walking involved?
I've done a test of my own and found ~0.511 gather rate on EP, some ~8.25% up from RE.
VictorXV wrote: I changed it to 2.00 instead of 0.90 and here is the interesting part. In the normal game (AD) Rice Paddy gathered at 0.68/0.69 (twice 0.34 as it is supposed to be). But for EP, the 0.30 persists. So there's definetely a bug in the code. But for some reason it can't be fixed for EP. :hmm:

Should I look for other file?
Yeah as Bucket says, EP doesn't use protoy/techtreey files, it has its own files like a separate expansion. Problem is you can't even mod those directly in the same way; they are not, and cannot, be included/overridden from the regular data folder.
Anyway, it is interesting that you found the new gathering system to not affect rice paddies, since some people claimed otherwise.
- I downloaded some modding tools and I was able to extract the techtreef.xml.xmb file. Convert it to xml and open it. And the 0.90 factor is still there (line 6660 though). I corrected it and try to place it in the data folder and it got deleted every time. I guess it gets overriden by the file in the .bar file. Could you change the factor and check it? I dunno why no one else noticed it in more than 10 years xD

PS: the same line appears again in line 54394 inside the <Tech name="ypBigSequesterInitialClone1" type="Normal"> but it is the same factor for every resource, so I think it doesnt matter.

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