Poll about France Gendarmes on EP9

[[Armag] diarouga]

hi, as someone who enjoyed the game for years, I wanted to join this topic. While I was active in the game, there will be some of you who remembered. I tried to play many countries, especially I tried to enjoy the team games as much as I could, but I left it because I thought the game was unstable over the years. it made me very happy to see people still working for the new versions of the game. if I were in your place I would definitely say yes to this vote because the imbalance of the cuirs caused me to quit the game.

Don't get your hopes too up, the fan patch is just used by a small smug circlejerk of maybe 50 people ranked 27+

You're free to invite your friends to join the forum and vote for a cuir nerf.
If half of the people who vote, don't really want cuirs to get nerfed, then there's not much we can do about it... It's democracy after all.

[dansil92]

Howdah
Mahout
Meteor hammers
Iron flails

All scale from colonial stats

Arq/changdao too but i think eary skirms unlocks them.

[Good ol Ivan]

Every fortress-age exclusive unit scales off of Fortress stats, so both changes are in fact similar in that they introduce discrepancies.

What are Mahouts
What are Howdahs

Pretty sure there are many more, but that's just from the top of my head.

Bad examples. Howdah and Mahout have colonial stats and shadowtech to the fortress age (20%). The reason for this is that India used to have a HC card that let them get elephants an age early (its description is in the stringtabley.xml file)

I don't remember no such card... But, okay, let's play your game:
Make thoroughbreds move cuirrs to age 2 from age 3 (and, yes, make cuirrs have colo stats). Test it so you can tell whether it's unba or not. It's unba? Don't change Thoroughberds and let cuirrs stay with their colonial stats. Because then it's literally the same what ES/BHG/whatever did with elephants. That way you can say France also "used" to have a HC card (that we never saw) that would let them get cuirrs an age early (and it's description would be in the stribtabley.xml files).

[Good ol Ivan]

Howdah
Mahout
Meteor hammers
Iron flails

All scale from colonial stats

Arq/changdao too but i think eary skirms unlocks them.

Uh, you are dumb. Maybe it's because China used to have a HC card that we never saw in the TAD release that would also move those two units in Colo (its description should be in the stringtabley.xml file). I'm so smart.

[dansil92]

Howdah
Mahout
Meteor hammers
Iron flails

All scale from colonial stats

Arq/changdao too but i think eary skirms unlocks them.

Uh, you are dumb. Maybe it's because China used to have a HC card that we never saw in the TAD release that would also move those two units in Colo (its description should be in the stringtabley.xml file). I'm so smart.

You seem like a nice guy

[Good ol Ivan]

Thoroughbreds used to make cuirrs cost 2 pop instead of 3. We should just revert to that (its description is in the stringtabley.xml file).

[Good ol Ivan]

Howdah
Mahout
Meteor hammers
Iron flails

All scale from colonial stats

Arq/changdao too but i think eary skirms unlocks them.

Uh, you are dumb. Maybe it's because China used to have a HC card that we never saw in the TAD release that would also move those two units in Colo (its description should be in the stringtabley.xml file). I'm so smart.

You seem like a nice guy

Thanks, I like you too.

[SquidTheSid]

Show hidden quotes

Every fortress-age exclusive unit scales off of Fortress stats, so both changes are in fact similar in that they introduce discrepancies.

What are Mahouts
What are Howdahs

Pretty sure there are many more, but that's just from the top of my head.

Bad examples. Howdah and Mahout have colonial stats and shadowtech to the fortress age (20%). The reason for this is that India used to have a HC card that let them get elephants an age early (its description is in the stringtabley.xml file)

I don't remember no such card... But, okay, let's play your game:
Make thoroughbreds move cuirrs to age 2 from age 3 (and, yes, make cuirrs have colo stats). Test it so you can tell whether it's unba or not. It's unba? Don't change Thoroughberds and let cuirrs stay with their colonial stats. Because then it's literally the same what ES/BHG/whatever did with elephants. That way you can say France also "used" to have a HC card (that we never saw) that would let them get cuirrs an age early (and it's description would be in the stribtabley.xml files).

You don't remember a card because it was cut. There are a lot of cut HC cards (like Boxer Rebellion turning all villagers into Disciples, or Ronin Scourge which turned all samurai into ronin). Again, look at the stringtabley.xml file.

Also, since skirmishers have colonial age stats, should we move them all to colonial age? How about Meteor Hammers and Iron Flails? Why don't we make all fortress age units available in colonial age? Colonial falcs are totally balanced, right?

I think you missed the point I was making with changing Thoroughbreds. The 25% is in lieu of a shadowtech, and cuirassiers get a cheaper base cost/train time to compensate. If EP doesn't want to go that route, then a fortress age shadowtech is a good solution

[Good ol Ivan]

You don't remember a card because it was cut. There are a lot of cut HC cards (like Boxer Rebellion turning all villagers into Disciples, or Ronin Scourge which turned all samurai into ronin). Again, look at the stringtabley.xml file.

Yes, I got that.

I think you missed the point I was making with changing Thoroughbreds.

Lol are you sure about that?

Also, since skirmishers have colonial age stats, should we move them all to colonial age?
How about Meteor Hammers and Iron Flails? Why don't we make all fortress age units available in colonial age? Colonial falcs are totally balanced, right?

That's not what I said.

then a fortress age shadowtech is a good solution

That's what I have been saying all along.

[Good ol Ivan]

hi, as someone who enjoyed the game for years, I wanted to join this topic. While I was active in the game, there will be some of you who remembered. I tried to play many countries, especially I tried to enjoy the team games as much as I could, but I left it because I thought the game was unstable over the years. it made me very happy to see people still working for the new versions of the game. if I were in your place I would definitely say yes to this vote because the imbalance of the cuirs caused me to quit the game.

Don't get your hopes too up, the fan patch is just used by a small smug circlejerk of maybe 50 people ranked 27+

You're free to invite your friends to join the forum and vote for a cuir nerf.
If half of the people who vote, don't really want cuirs to get nerfed, then there's not much we can do about it... It's democracy after all.

Do tell me, how does it affect you personally that cuirrs get a colo stat and a veteran shadowtech in age 3?

[[Armag] diarouga]

Thoroughbreds used to make cuirrs cost 2 pop instead of 3. We should just revert to that (its description is in the stringtabley.xml file).

Then cuirs would be even more broken lol.

[[Armag] diarouga]

Show hidden quotes

hi, as someone who enjoyed the game for years, I wanted to join this topic. While I was active in the game, there will be some of you who remembered. I tried to play many countries, especially I tried to enjoy the team games as much as I could, but I left it because I thought the game was unstable over the years. it made me very happy to see people still working for the new versions of the game. if I were in your place I would definitely say yes to this vote because the imbalance of the cuirs caused me to quit the game.

Don't get your hopes too up, the fan patch is just used by a small smug circlejerk of maybe 50 people ranked 27+

You're free to invite your friends to join the forum and vote for a cuir nerf.
If half of the people who vote, don't really want cuirs to get nerfed, then there's not much we can do about it... It's democracy after all.

Do tell me, how does it affect you personally that cuirrs get a colo stat and a veteran shadowtech in age 3?

I'm mostly a 1v1 player so it doesn't affect me directly that much. However, I want the EP (and DE) to be as successful as possible, and I believe that nerfing cuirs in late game would improve the gaming experience for most players.
It would also be a consistent decision, considering Jap (with wonders), China (with old han), Port (with genitour) all got nerfed in late game.

[Kaiserklein]

I hate 1x1 players so much. Nooo, not my heckin cuirrerinos, they are fine in fortress, who cares about any other game mode!11!!
Fuck you, they can be nerfed without even affecting their fortress stats by any measure. Just fucking scale them from colonial stats and be done with it.
Altho, reducing their build limit to 20 would be nice as well tbh. Fuck cuirassiers, really.

Well fuck YOU dude, this is a 1v1 patch.

Anyway, yes they should scale from colo stats. Quite elegant and efficient solution. I proposed that before leaving the patch team, but some ignorants wanted to make imperial cuirs +30% lmao. Not sure if it will be adopted

Well it's actually not an elegant change, because it introduces an inconsistency, the same as a 30% imperial upgrade might. Every fortress-age exclusive unit scales off of Fortress stats, so both changes are in fact similar in that they introduce discrepancies. Not that it should matter, because balance > design in this case. I wouldn't mind either option being implemented.

It's not really inconsistent. There isn't a solid logic behind how the scaling works, it's possible to get vet units in colo, and some units with colo stats also aren't trainable in colo. So in my book this change is elegant. And it also just works I'm pretty sure.

While a 30% imperial up is inconsistent and fixes only half of the problem. Garbage

[dansil92]

Its entirely consistent to give them colonial stats to match asian fortress cav units, all of which scale from colonial. Lancers are the other unit which could probably use the same treatment, although im not sure its nearly as warranted

[iNcog]

lol if Gendarmes are so OP and in the late-game only, then why not just adjust the thoroughbred card? just nerf or change the card to affect hussars too or something

Gendarmes should sort of be the best cav in the game still. Wouldn't overnerf them

[Kaiserklein]

lol if Gendarmes are so OP and in the late-game only, then why not just adjust the thoroughbred card? just nerf or change the card to affect hussars too or something

Gendarmes should sort of be the best cav in the game still. Wouldn't overnerf them

Carded cuirs in fort are kinda OP too

[iNcog]

Are they? I see

but if you allow France to both get a critical mass of Cuirs and also stack upgrades on them, is it not your fault for letting a civ get to their comfort zone? kind of like don't let Japan boom for free sort of.

not really disagreeing per se, just arguing to understand the problem as best as possible

[dansil92]

Carded cuirs kinda start to crush their counters, especially after gendarmes is researched (rare but it does happen once in a while), colonial scaling would nerf cav combat cuirs by 12.5 hp and gendarme tech would be nerfed by 36hp less than it normally gives. Its a noticeable difference, but not an overnerf

[howlingwolfpaw]

what ever you do, do something...

possible suggestions.

.5 multiplier vs Heavy infantry (it basically has half the attack and stats of a mahout, imagine how OP mahouts would be without this. 2 gendarmes equal the pop and attack of a mahout without a divider)
change area attack to 1 (2 is ridiculous for a sword attack)
Change speed. (its the heaviest, therefore slowest cav, that you need to support with skirms or something so that dragoons can have a chance to kill them)
Lower siege attack, (they can box and get 99 siege attack in imperial, yet have the HP to basically not care and take the damage and whatever target they need to)
revert thoroughbreds to 2 pop, and have a unit limiter. or have it reduce cost but increase train time

[deleted_user]

You gonna play FFA on EP?

[Good ol Ivan]

Thoroughbreds used to make cuirrs cost 2 pop instead of 3. We should just revert to that (its description is in the stringtabley.xml file).

Then cuirs would be even more broken lol.

Thank you, Sherlock Holmes.

[howlingwolfpaw]

Honestly it would be fun to try to get people active about it. But so many decisions make no sense, like why Gendarmes were left they way they were. And lancers are the only cav added with a range. etc... If they were fixed I could allow france in my games again.

I do like watching the game in competitive 1v1's (sometimes team, but not really TR) and when I do I like to know its a good matchup.

And if EP is the route AOE 3 DE takes then it definitely needs to be addressed and problem solved in prior matches.

[howlingwolfpaw]

Also got to say for those that have input to AOE 3 DE. There needs to be an integrated patch, it would be tragic to try to split the game into 2 different patches/ one for TR and one for SUP. The balance changes should be considered so that only one version of the game is needed.

[forgrin]

It's honestly kind of nuts that EP doesn't nerf lategame cuirs even a little. France lategame is fine, it doesn't need the cuirs to be so blatantly OP, there is literally no reason not to nerf thorougbreds (which iirc is the root of the problem).

Edit: I take this back I'm retarded, forgot that thoroughbreds actually no longer decreases train time on EP. @howlingwolfpaw thoughts?

[Ghost_Imperator]

Seems like French cuirassiers have mocked at you during entire of your childhood, so it reflects on your mind. Your anger to them is just abnormal and you know ridiculous. @Good ol Ivan