Which civs will dominate ep 9 or which civs got nerfed/buffed

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France [Armag] diarouga
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Re: Which civs will dominate ep 9 or which civs got nerfed/buffed

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Post by [Armag] diarouga »

kevinitalien wrote:
[Armag] diarouga wrote:
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If you think the game was balanced with random crates, then it is balanced with fixed crates assuming we give all civs the same crates. For instance, if you think that EP India isn't balanced with a wood start, then it means that it was shit on coin starts and op on wood starts, which is now fixed.

The only civ that didn't get "normal" fixed crates is Germany, because Germany on wood start would simply be too strong (and that's because Germany random crates were broken as fuck). You can see that as a nerf we tried to compensate by reverting another nerf.
If it's not enough, Germany will be buffed more, but claiming that the game is unbalanced because of fixed crates is just plain wrong.
I totally disagree, when you decide to nerf or buff a civ you took into account the random crates, you did not take into account the fixed crates, and in no case am I saying that india was unbalanced with a gold or wood start, which is also false since the other civs with a gold start also suddenly, I really do not understand this logic sincerely
The logic is that, except for Germany, we just gave a food+wood start to all civs (coin+wood is like food+wood for Dutch tbh). So if a MU was balanced with random crates (including with food+wood crates), it should be balanced now.
In reality, many civs were very strong on some starts and too weak on some others, which is why we implemented fixed crates.

Now for Germany, we knew that Germany with a wood start would need more nerfs, and it was decided to give Germany a food+coin start AND revert a nerf, instead of giving them food+wood and add nerfs (and Mitoe and kaiser were fine with it, so it's not the anti ger lobby).
Keep in mind that EP9 is just a beta atm, and if people show that Germany is too weak, it will be adjusted, but so far I've only heard complaints and watched a game of Mitoe where Germany looked quite strong. Of course, I can't make conclusions out of one game, but I don't see balance issues with Germany yet.
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Re: Which civs will dominate ep 9 or which civs got nerfed/buffed

Post by kevinitalien »

[Armag] diarouga wrote:
kevinitalien wrote:
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I totally disagree, when you decide to nerf or buff a civ you took into account the random crates, you did not take into account the fixed crates, and in no case am I saying that india was unbalanced with a gold or wood start, which is also false since the other civs with a gold start also suddenly, I really do not understand this logic sincerely
The logic is that, except for Germany, we just gave a food+wood start to all civs (coin+wood is like food+wood for Dutch tbh). So if a MU was balanced with random crates (including with food+wood crates), it should be balanced now.
In reality, many civs were very strong on some starts and too weak on some others, which is why we implemented fixed crates.

Now for Germany, we knew that Germany with a wood start would need more nerfs, and it was decided to give Germany a food+coin start AND revert a nerf, instead of giving them food+wood and add nerfs (and Mitoe and kaiser were fine with it, so it's not the anti ger lobby).
Keep in mind that EP9 is just a beta atm, and if people show that Germany is too weak, it will be adjusted, but so far I've only heard complaints and watched a game of Mitoe where Germany looked quite strong. Of course, I can't make conclusions out of one game, but I don't see balance issues with Germany yet.
I'm certainly not an excellent player compared to some, but I played Germany several times in the beta, and it was clearly unplayable, playing against a civ wood start with a gold start + tp nerf + xp penalty is clearly impossible, and we could say to ourselves that we can catch up with an imposing army but the opposing army is just much stronger all the time, finally there is only one solution is a timing age 2 or the we can get by but it's still problematic, and as I said a few months ago, we will always see the same civ, the same MU, the same build order, its going to be super boring to watch I fear, and what is the balance currently it is worse but it is sure that its will improve quickly, it is so much easier to balance with fixed crates
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Re: Which civs will dominate ep 9 or which civs got nerfed/buffed

Post by [Armag] diarouga »

kevinitalien wrote:
[Armag] diarouga wrote:
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The logic is that, except for Germany, we just gave a food+wood start to all civs (coin+wood is like food+wood for Dutch tbh). So if a MU was balanced with random crates (including with food+wood crates), it should be balanced now.
In reality, many civs were very strong on some starts and too weak on some others, which is why we implemented fixed crates.

Now for Germany, we knew that Germany with a wood start would need more nerfs, and it was decided to give Germany a food+coin start AND revert a nerf, instead of giving them food+wood and add nerfs (and Mitoe and kaiser were fine with it, so it's not the anti ger lobby).
Keep in mind that EP9 is just a beta atm, and if people show that Germany is too weak, it will be adjusted, but so far I've only heard complaints and watched a game of Mitoe where Germany looked quite strong. Of course, I can't make conclusions out of one game, but I don't see balance issues with Germany yet.
I'm certainly not an excellent player compared to some, but I played Germany several times in the beta, and it was clearly unplayable, playing against a civ wood start with a gold start + tp nerf + xp penalty is clearly impossible, and we could say to ourselves that we can catch up with an imposing army but the opposing army is just much stronger all the time, finally there is only one solution is a timing age 2 or the we can get by but it's still problematic, and as I said a few months ago, we will always see the same civ, the same MU, the same build order, its going to be super boring to watch I fear, and what is the balance currently it is worse but it is sure that its will improve quickly, it is so much easier to balance with fixed crates
Mitoe goes early TP and iddles his TC 10 sec. That looks okay.
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Re: Which civs will dominate ep 9 or which civs got nerfed/buffed

Post by kevinitalien »

[Armag] diarouga wrote:
kevinitalien wrote:
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I'm certainly not an excellent player compared to some, but I played Germany several times in the beta, and it was clearly unplayable, playing against a civ wood start with a gold start + tp nerf + xp penalty is clearly impossible, and we could say to ourselves that we can catch up with an imposing army but the opposing army is just much stronger all the time, finally there is only one solution is a timing age 2 or the we can get by but it's still problematic, and as I said a few months ago, we will always see the same civ, the same MU, the same build order, its going to be super boring to watch I fear, and what is the balance currently it is worse but it is sure that its will improve quickly, it is so much easier to balance with fixed crates
Mitoe goes early TP and iddles his TC 10 sec. That looks okay.
it's clearly impossible lol, except if you have a treasure of wood or if you want to be at age 2 more than 5 min
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Re: Which civs will dominate ep 9 or which civs got nerfed/buffed

Post by amiggo1999 »

I've heard several ppl here talk about a germany xp penalty, while they have been given a xp buff on the ep beta...
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Re: Which civs will dominate ep 9 or which civs got nerfed/buffed

Post by kevinitalien »

amiggo1999 wrote:I've heard several ppl here talk about a germany xp penalty, while they have been given a xp buff on the ep beta...
no it's still 112% but it's going to be 108% normally
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Re: Which civs will dominate ep 9 or which civs got nerfed/buffed

Post by amiggo1999 »

kevinitalien wrote:
amiggo1999 wrote:I've heard several ppl here talk about a germany xp penalty, while they have been given a xp buff on the ep beta...
no it's still 112% but it's going to be 108% normally
I said on the ep beta they got a xp buff, while you among others have complained about a xp penalty in your posts. Then you might have been referring to the xp penalty that germany has always had (no matter the patch/amount). Reading your last post however, it seemed like you were complaining about beta introducing an additional xp nerf to me.
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Re: Which civs will dominate ep 9 or which civs got nerfed/buffed

Post by kevinitalien »

amiggo1999 wrote:
kevinitalien wrote:
amiggo1999 wrote:I've heard several ppl here talk about a germany xp penalty, while they have been given a xp buff on the ep beta...
no it's still 112% but it's going to be 108% normally
I said on the ep beta they got a xp buff, while you among others have complained about a xp penalty in your posts. Then you might have been referring to the xp penalty that germany has always had (no matter the patch/amount). Reading your last post however, it seemed like you were complaining about beta introducing an additional xp nerf to me.
yes me I said that on the beta version it is still at 112% and that it is unplayable, and even with the 108% its will remain unplayable anyway
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Re: Which civs will dominate ep 9 or which civs got nerfed/buffed

Post by chronique »

Its not 108% on the beta?
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Re: Which civs will dominate ep 9 or which civs got nerfed/buffed

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Post by Cometk »

kevinitalien wrote:
amiggo1999 wrote:
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I said on the ep beta they got a xp buff, while you among others have complained about a xp penalty in your posts. Then you might have been referring to the xp penalty that germany has always had (no matter the patch/amount). Reading your last post however, it seemed like you were complaining about beta introducing an additional xp nerf to me.
yes me I said that on the beta version it is still at 112% and that it is unplayable, and even with the 108% its will remain unplayable anyway
chronique wrote:Its not 108% on the beta?
this is the notes for Germany on EP9.0.0.0 Beta2
GERMANY
- Starting crates fixed to 300f 100w 100c
- Shipment XP cost penalty reduced to 8% (from 12%)
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Re: Which civs will dominate ep 9 or which civs got nerfed/buffed

Post by Rohbrot »

Anyone has tested some different civs on beta which havent been discussed here?
(Japan, spain, azzy, port)
Spain pain train is real
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Re: Which civs will dominate ep 9 or which civs got nerfed/buffed

Post by kevinitalien »

Cometk wrote:
kevinitalien wrote:
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yes me I said that on the beta version it is still at 112% and that it is unplayable, and even with the 108% its will remain unplayable anyway
chronique wrote:Its not 108% on the beta?
this is the notes for Germany on EP9.0.0.0 Beta2
GERMANY
- Starting crates fixed to 300f 100w 100c
- Shipment XP cost penalty reduced to 8% (from 12%)
yes precisely I thought there was an error and suddenly it was not implemented or something like that, I had not understood then, and therefore suddenly it is unplayable with 108% ahah
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Re: Which civs will dominate ep 9 or which civs got nerfed/buffed

Post by [Armag] diarouga »

kevinitalien wrote:
amiggo1999 wrote:
Show hidden quotes
I said on the ep beta they got a xp buff, while you among others have complained about a xp penalty in your posts. Then you might have been referring to the xp penalty that germany has always had (no matter the patch/amount). Reading your last post however, it seemed like you were complaining about beta introducing an additional xp nerf to me.
yes me I said that on the beta version it is still at 112% and that it is unplayable, and even with the 108% its will remain unplayable anyway
If it's 112% then it's a mistake, it should be 108%.
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Re: Which civs will dominate ep 9 or which civs got nerfed/buffed

Post by [Armag] diarouga »

Rohbrot wrote:Anyone has tested some different civs on beta which havent been discussed here?
(Japan, spain, azzy, port)
Breeze played quite a lot of Port (and although he complains a lot about it, it seems fine :P ).
I've played 2 games as Japan, and it's just like Japan on the previous patch, no need to worry about the civ.
I haven't played Spain but Spain is just like in the previous patch (so average) because it wasn't changed ?
And Aztec is slightly stronger than before (especially against skirm/goon) thanks to the coyote combat buff, but on the other hand fixed crates helps the nilla civs more.
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Re: Which civs will dominate ep 9 or which civs got nerfed/buffed

Post by chronique »

[Armag] diarouga wrote: I've played 2 games as Japan, and it's just like Japan on the previous patch, no need to worry about the civ.
Jap is the same where all tp civ are nerf so we can be afraid about jap (was the best no tp civ on ep8)
[Armag] diarouga wrote: I haven't played Spain but Spain is just like in the previous patch (so average) because it wasn't changed ?
-15% xp which is a nerf of all spain strat (like most of no tp civ but spain wasn't top civ on ep8, so there are reason too think they are weaker now).
Also, tripple atp nerf, -15% xp + tc radius + xp trickle (which is a small atp nerf because 2tp + 1 nat tp was not so bad when you can't take 3 tp).

Also, unlayable on no tp map now (because xp nat trickle >>>>>> church)
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Re: Which civs will dominate ep 9 or which civs got nerfed/buffed

Post by [Armag] diarouga »

chronique wrote:
[Armag] diarouga wrote: I've played 2 games as Japan, and it's just like Japan on the previous patch, no need to worry about the civ.
Jap is the same where all tp civ are nerf so we can be afraid about jap (was the best no tp civ on ep8)
[Armag] diarouga wrote: I haven't played Spain but Spain is just like in the previous patch (so average) because it wasn't changed ?
-15% xp which is a nerf of all spain strat (like most of no tp civ but spain wasn't top civ on ep8, so there are reason too think they are weaker now).
Also, tripple atp nerf, -15% xp + tc radius + xp trickle (which is a small atp nerf because 2tp + 1 nat tp was not so bad when you can't take 3 tp).

Also, unlayable on no tp map now (because xp nat trickle >>>>>> church)
1. The other civs have a fixed TP start so they're not really nerfed. For instance, I think that wood start favours civs like France more than Japan. And Japan isn't the best no tp civ.

2. The TP nerf is honestly not noticeable. It surely affects some timings, but when playing, I didn't see big differences in the semi ff builds.
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Re: Which civs will dominate ep 9 or which civs got nerfed/buffed

Post by chronique »

The TP nerf is significant, i can't fast ff (17 vili age up) anymore because i need 20 more second for the first age 3 shipement. Ofc for fr its not significant because you have your free tp now, but i can't do that with spain. Maybe because i am timing oriented player idk.
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Post by Guigs »

chronique wrote:The TP nerf is significant, i can't fast ff (17 vili age up) anymore because i need 20 more second for the first age 3 shipement. Ofc for fr its not significant because you have your free tp now, but i can't do that with spain. Maybe because i am timing oriented player idk.
Build your tp in age 1 ? can also easily get wood treasure on most maps as spain too
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Post by chronique »

Lecastete wrote: Build your tp in age 1 ? can also easily get wood treasure on most maps as spain too
You can't age with 15 if you do that because you take no value of your tp in age 1 (you can't send your 3 vili earlier because you are housed). You need this wood tres super fast, its very risky.

That's why i asked for the church.
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Post by Rohbrot »

chronique wrote:
Lecastete wrote: Build your tp in age 1 ? can also easily get wood treasure on most maps as spain too
You can't age with 15 if you do that because you take no value of your tp in age 1 (you can't send your 3 vili earlier because you are housed). You need this wood tres super fast, its very risky.

That's why i asked for the church.
Ur fast ff got deleted by the game, my friend, u have to wait for ep 10 or for church trickle to be meta, in age 1 (kidding) hope its really not as bad as u say
Spain pain train is real
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Post by chronique »

Rohbrot wrote:Ur fast ff got deleted by the game, my friend, u have to wait for ep 10 or for church trickle to be meta, in age 1 (kidding) hope its really not as bad as u say
Its not that bad, you can ff in 7.20 with your ship ready most of the time.

I am realy afraid about no tp map ^^
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Re: Which civs will dominate ep 9 or which civs got nerfed/buffed

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