Strongest age 2 civ

[amiggo1999]

I didn't think camels were that strong.

They are very strong vs other units because of the multipliers (and also the other stats are fine). India combo is close to the Japan one in fact. Japan probably wins by raiding in late colo.

I think brit shouldn't be overlooked. Imo the only civ that really wins in age 2 vs it is russia, and japan late colonial. As India I typically want to age vs brits, as I don't think you can keep up with brit boom, mass & unit strength in age 2. Sure gurkha are nice, but brit will eventually get more cost effective musk, viable cav, as well as better eco ofc. Aside from that I think brits have THE best colonial vs all other civs in age 3, due to lb. If we're talking colonial vs colonial it might not be no1, but top 3-5 in my books.

India destroys Brits past 10 minute mark in colonial, not even close.

I disagree. I think if anything it's close. Zambs are not viable due to the threat of lb, and then again brit will eventualy have more cost effective musk, with more vills and cheap steel traps.

[harcha]

This is why I ask what exactly is the question about? Is it about late colonial? Because then Japan for sure.

[[Armag] diarouga]

I think brit shouldn't be overlooked. Imo the only civ that really wins in age 2 vs it is russia, and japan late colonial. As India I typically want to age vs brits, as I don't think you can keep up with brit boom, mass & unit strength in age 2. Sure gurkha are nice, but brit will eventually get more cost effective musk, viable cav, as well as better eco ofc. Aside from that I think brits have THE best colonial vs all other civs in age 3, due to lb. If we're talking colonial vs colonial it might not be no1, but top 3-5 in my books.

1. I don't think brit wins against Russia. Russia catches up in eco and you can't really break the musk/strel behind bh.
2. You eventually outboom brit as India (though it takes like 10 min), and sepoy/gurkha beats musk/lb.

I'd argue that Japan has a better late colonial age 2 vs age 3 because upgraded yumis are better than lb, and the speed of the ashis matters so much against skirm/goon, but Brit is stronger than Russia and India against age 3 compositions you're right.

[[Armag] diarouga]

I didn't think camels were that strong.

They are very strong vs other units because of the multipliers (and also the other stats are fine). India combo is close to the Japan one in fact. Japan probably wins by raiding in late colo.

I think brit shouldn't be overlooked. Imo the only civ that really wins in age 2 vs it is russia, and japan late colonial. As India I typically want to age vs brits, as I don't think you can keep up with brit boom, mass & unit strength in age 2. Sure gurkha are nice, but brit will eventually get more cost effective musk, viable cav, as well as better eco ofc. Aside from that I think brits have THE best colonial vs all other civs in age 3, due to lb. If we're talking colonial vs colonial it might not be no1, but top 3-5 in my books.

India destroys Brits past 10 minute mark in colonial, not even close.

I disagree. I think if anything it's close. Zambs are not viable due to the threat of lb, and then again brit will eventualy have more cost effective musk, with more vills and cheap steel traps.

Idk, even after the sepoy nerf I never see Brit winning a colonial war against India. When brit wins it's usually with a semi ff.

[amiggo1999]

I think brit shouldn't be overlooked. Imo the only civ that really wins in age 2 vs it is russia, and japan late colonial. As India I typically want to age vs brits, as I don't think you can keep up with brit boom, mass & unit strength in age 2. Sure gurkha are nice, but brit will eventually get more cost effective musk, viable cav, as well as better eco ofc. Aside from that I think brits have THE best colonial vs all other civs in age 3, due to lb. If we're talking colonial vs colonial it might not be no1, but top 3-5 in my books.

1. I don't think brit wins against Russia. Russia catches up in eco and you can't really break the musk/strel behind bh.
2. You eventually outboom brit as India (though it takes like 10 min), and sepoy/gurkha beats musk/lb.

I'd argue that Japan has a better late colonial age 2 vs age 3 because upgraded yumis are better than lb, and the speed of the ashis matters so much against skirm/goon, but Brit is stronger than Russia and India against age 3 compositions you're right.

1. Well I never said brit wins vs russia in age 2 haha. I said I think that russia is the only civ that realy beats brits in colonial.
2. It takes a lot longer to outboom brit as india, more like 20min. And yea sepoy gurkha are good vs musk/lb, but again in age 2 brit has the better musk upgrades, hence scales better, and actually has viable tanky cav. I would say that you usuallly want to age as brit anyways in the MU, which leads to india having to follow. I don't think brit can really push vs india age2, but the same applies the other way around. Perhaps eventually when india caught up economically they will be ahead due to not using up as many hunts. But I wouldn't say they really have the better army in late age 2.

Japan may have better late age 2 army than brits. But vs ff civs mid age 2 is more relevant, so in practice I think brits age 2 is the best overall vs age 3 civs.

[Jerimuno]

I picked otto, since i believe once you reach a good mass of abus (i.e. able to one shot an opposing cav unit) backed up by a couple of jan and hus, buffed with all cards (even AA) in a practical game, where resources on the map are getting low and your opponent is also in age 2, there is no army that can trade well against it.

[Kaiserklein]

Pretty sure full strel coss trades really well against it

[[Armag] diarouga]

Not if you can block the coss with hussars.

[Kaiserklein]

Which you can't ever do in late colo as otto vs russ because you can't mass huss like he masses coss + there's boyars and cav hp

[chronique]

I pick russia because this civ is strong in age 2 from the start to the end. Russia is top tier age 2 civ in every aspect of the game (good rush, good eco / army scale). Maybe i can shek the stat to know what civ have the best winrate in age 2 or stuff like that.

edit : nvm i can't do that ^^

[[Armag] diarouga]

Which you can't ever do in late colo as otto vs russ because you can't mass huss like he masses coss + there's boyars and cav hp

That's because you're taking economy into account. The question isn't precise enough but with equal economy, Otto beats Russia in colonial.

[[Armag] diarouga]

I pick russia because this civ is strong in age 2 from the start to the end. Russia is top tier age 2 civ in every aspect of the game (good rush, good eco / army scale). Maybe i can shek the stat to know what civ have the best winrate in age 2 or stuff like that.

edit : nvm i can't do that ^^

You can do that with the NWC games. Someone made a sheet with some data about aging times.

[louis293]

i think u clearly have to take account of the eco in this threat no ? its a very important aspect of the strength of a civ.

[[Armag] diarouga]

You can, it depends on the question.
Besides, Otto can get a very decent eco with 4 TPs, so it's not an impossible situation.

[louis293]

yeah sure, but imagine a game where u are not allowed to age 3, who would you favor between otto and russia ? who would you pick ?

[harcha]

Japan

[Garja]

I didn't think camels were that strong.

They are very strong vs other units because of the multipliers (and also the other stats are fine). India combo is close to the Japan one in fact. Japan probably wins by raiding in late colo.

I think brit shouldn't be overlooked. Imo the only civ that really wins in age 2 vs it is russia, and japan late colonial. As India I typically want to age vs brits, as I don't think you can keep up with brit boom, mass & unit strength in age 2. Sure gurkha are nice, but brit will eventually get more cost effective musk, viable cav, as well as better eco ofc. Aside from that I think brits have THE best colonial vs all other civs in age 3, due to lb. If we're talking colonial vs colonial it might not be no1, but top 3-5 in my books.

India destroys Brits past 10 minute mark in colonial, not even close.

I disagree. I think if anything it's close. Zambs are not viable due to the threat of lb, and then again brit will eventualy have more cost effective musk, with more vills and cheap steel traps.

Lbows are not a threat. The standard vs Brits (and any civ actually) is gurka/zamb/sowar. Sowars are extremely good at countering infantry (much better job than basically any euro cav) and zambs destroy hand cav to the point that basically any civ is at disavantage in colo. Having more efficient musks is pointless when the opponent has skirms.
As for eco, India outscales Brits after 10-12 minutes mostly because Brit vills suffers lot of idle time and India has exports to fill the gaps when the vill allocation is not optimal.

[Garja]

Btw Russia > otto in late colo. Actually most civs > otto past a certain point. Otto colonial is all about the 50 military pop at 9 min with jan/abus/huss.

[chronique]

I pick russia because this civ is strong in age 2 from the start to the end. Russia is top tier age 2 civ in every aspect of the game (good rush, good eco / army scale). Maybe i can shek the stat to know what civ have the best winrate in age 2 or stuff like that.

edit : nvm i can't do that ^^

You can do that with the NWC games. Someone made a sheet with some data about aging times.

I am interested by that!

[[Armag] diarouga]

I think it was a @BrookG thread.

[BrookG]

Are you looking for that? viewtopic.php?f=19&t=17351

[[Armag] diarouga]

Ye.

[Hazza54321]

pretty sure u can just full sepoy and passively get a better eco vs brit as india

[Mitoe]

Overall, I would say Russia because they are strong in early, mid, and late Colonial with good economic scaling and can even do well vs a Fortress age opponent and have a decent follow up to Fortress as well.

Otherwise India is really good because they have access to skirm/goon, but they struggle vs civs that have good light infantry like Yumis or Abus Guns. They do well in matchups where their camels are useful, like vs Russia and Aztec.

Late Colonial it’s for sure Japan. Great economic scaling and really good military upgrades.

[amiggo1999]

Show hidden quotes

I didn't think camels were that strong.

They are very strong vs other units because of the multipliers (and also the other stats are fine). India combo is close to the Japan one in fact. Japan probably wins by raiding in late colo.

I think brit shouldn't be overlooked. Imo the only civ that really wins in age 2 vs it is russia, and japan late colonial. As India I typically want to age vs brits, as I don't think you can keep up with brit boom, mass & unit strength in age 2. Sure gurkha are nice, but brit will eventually get more cost effective musk, viable cav, as well as better eco ofc. Aside from that I think brits have THE best colonial vs all other civs in age 3, due to lb. If we're talking colonial vs colonial it might not be no1, but top 3-5 in my books.

India destroys Brits past 10 minute mark in colonial, not even close.

I disagree. I think if anything it's close. Zambs are not viable due to the threat of lb, and then again brit will eventualy have more cost effective musk, with more vills and cheap steel traps.

Lbows are not a threat. The standard vs Brits (and any civ actually) is gurka/zamb/sowar. Sowars are extremely good at countering infantry (much better job than basically any euro cav) and zambs destroy hand cav to the point that basically any civ is at disavantage in colo. Having more efficient musks is pointless when the opponent has skirms.
As for eco, India outscales Brits after 10-12 minutes mostly because Brit vills suffers lot of idle time and India has exports to fill the gaps when the vill allocation is not optimal.

You just get shat on by lb if you go gurkha/zamb. Sure it's a good combo vs most civs, but both units are too vulnerable to lb. Just some musk & huss to block from sowars and you should be able to deal with that just fine. Sepoy are what you need in order to fight the lb properly, but then again the later on upgraded musk don't really make that easy. Maybe you they catch up a bit sooner with the eco yea, but still I don't think either civ has an easy time winning in colonial really.