Why do you think that? They replace musketeers for the civs that lack them.Kaiserklein wrote:Garbage*
Best / Most Useful Mercenaries?
Re: Best / Most Useful Mercenaries?
Re: Best / Most Useful Mercenaries?
They cost your notes, your spare change, and half of the mortgage on your house.Jotunir wrote:Why do you think that? They replace musketeers for the civs that lack them.Kaiserklein wrote:Garbage*
- LegalPenguin
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Re: Best / Most Useful Mercenaries?
Fusiliers are okay. They are better than Imperial Musketeers, but available in colo. Of course, they have to cost a shit ton of coin. Any upgrade cards for Muskets that you might have will scale on these imperial stats.
Flint lock? Is +15hp for usual muskets, but +30hp for Fusiliers
Paper cartridge? is +3.45dmg for muskets, but +10.5dmg for Fusiliers
Military drummers? is +0.4 speed for muskets, but +0.55 speed for Fusiliers
If they were any cheaper, Swedes would be even more absurd than they are anyway. Especially when one takes into account their merc combat card (+20% hp/dmg) and the imperial aging bonus (+50% hp/dmg) which combined with all other upgrades, allows the fusilier to become pretty much an imperialized imperial unit.
Flint lock? Is +15hp for usual muskets, but +30hp for Fusiliers
Paper cartridge? is +3.45dmg for muskets, but +10.5dmg for Fusiliers
Military drummers? is +0.4 speed for muskets, but +0.55 speed for Fusiliers
If they were any cheaper, Swedes would be even more absurd than they are anyway. Especially when one takes into account their merc combat card (+20% hp/dmg) and the imperial aging bonus (+50% hp/dmg) which combined with all other upgrades, allows the fusilier to become pretty much an imperialized imperial unit.
Whatever is written above: this is no financial advice.
Beati pauperes spiritu.
Beati pauperes spiritu.
Re: Best / Most Useful Mercenaries?
Well for Dutch that is no problem, and also they have the infinite fusilier card. It makes them cost 200 gold each + 1 shipment, which is considerably better than paying 300 gold for one at the saloon if, and only if, you get them. The only clear advantage of having them in the saloon is that you can have them in Fortress, although at that point, it will suck you dry of .chris1089 wrote:They cost your notes, your spare change, and half of the mortgage on your house.Jotunir wrote:Why do you think that? They replace musketeers for the civs that lack them.Kaiserklein wrote:Garbage*
Germans have an even better offer at 100 gold each + 1 shipment, but it is a one time only card and they generally have less gold available than Dutch.
Still, we are speaking of industrial mercs for the most part, most games end before that.
- ShinkuroYukinari
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Re: Best / Most Useful Mercenaries?
Actually, it's less efficient than training them normally. 2000 coin, plus the baseline cost of a shipment in Age4, which is 1600 resources. You actually pay 3600 in opportunity+resource cost for them, making it 360 coin per fusilier.Jotunir wrote:Well for Dutch that is no problem, and also they have the infinite fusilier card. It makes them cost 200 gold each + 1 shipment, which is considerably better than paying 300 gold for one at the saloon if, and only if, you get them.chris1089 wrote:They cost your notes, your spare change, and half of the mortgage on your house.Show hidden quotes
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Re: Best / Most Useful Mercenaries?
But you have them guaranteed. You are also paying for that. As Dutch, you need them for your late game army composition if the game goes that far. You cannot rely only on the luck of the draw.ShinkuroYukinari wrote:Actually, it's less efficient than training them normally. 2000 coin, plus the baseline cost of a shipment in Age4, which is 1600 resources. You actually pay 3600 in opportunity+resource cost for them, making it 360 coin per fusilier.Jotunir wrote:Well for Dutch that is no problem, and also they have the infinite fusilier card. It makes them cost 200 gold each + 1 shipment, which is considerably better than paying 300 gold for one at the saloon if, and only if, you get them.Show hidden quotes
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Re: Best / Most Useful Mercenaries?
they get 3 shot by a TC tho so,
- ShinkuroYukinari
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Re: Best / Most Useful Mercenaries?
Given their insane cost and Dutch lategame gold issues, I'd rather focus on Halbs with Cannons or Skirm-Ruyter. Potentially some outlaws if income is an issue, given how pop inefficiency is less of an issue for a civ with 50 extra mil pop.Jotunir wrote:But you have them guaranteed. You are also paying for that. As Dutch, you need them for your late game army composition. You cannot rely only on the luck of the draw.ShinkuroYukinari wrote:Actually, it's less efficient than training them normally. 2000 coin, plus the baseline cost of a shipment in Age4, which is 1600 resources. You actually pay 3600 in opportunity+resource cost for them, making it 360 coin per fusilier.Show hidden quotes
My signature was removed, MOD ABUSE!
Re: Best / Most Useful Mercenaries?
How about Halbs, cannons and fusiliers? It generally works much better than just halbs and cannons.ShinkuroYukinari wrote:Given their insane cost and Dutch lategame gold issues, I'd rather focus on Halbs with Cannons or Skirm-Ruyter. Potentially some outlaws if income is an issue, given how pop inefficiency is less of an issue for a civ with 50 extra mil pop.Jotunir wrote:But you have them guaranteed. You are also paying for that. As Dutch, you need them for your late game army composition. You cannot rely only on the luck of the draw.Show hidden quotes
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Combined_arms
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- Howdah
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Re: Best / Most Useful Mercenaries?
Why would you need fusilliers as Dutch late game ? Ruyters+skirms or halbs/skirms/falcs sounds great.
ESOC : came for the game, stayed for the drama.
Re: Best / Most Useful Mercenaries?
Personal choice, I consider that Fusiliers "pack a punch" much more than Skirms. I still use skirms though, it is just that I like to complement them with something spicier.Le Hussard sur le toit wrote:Why would you need fusilliers as Dutch late game ? Ruyters+skirms or halbs/skirms/falcs sounds great.
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Re: Best / Most Useful Mercenaries?
Available in colo only for sweden and if you send a card.duckzilla wrote:Fusiliers are okay. They are better than Imperial Musketeers, but available in colo. Of course, they have to cost a shit ton of coin.
They cost more than 3 musks. And 3 musks >> 1 fusilier. They're not okay
This is really flawed logic. You can't just compare the stats gained on 1 fusilier to those on 1 musk, since musks are 3 to 4 times cheaper. Flint lock is 45 hp on 3 musks, which is more than 30 hp... Can't count like that anyway.duckzilla wrote:Any upgrade cards for Muskets that you might have will scale on these imperial stats.
Flint lock? Is +15hp for usual muskets, but +30hp for Fusiliers
Paper cartridge? is +3.45dmg for muskets, but +10.5dmg for Fusiliers
Military drummers? is +0.4 speed for muskets, but +0.55 speed for Fusiliers
The only good thing is that upgrades for fusiliers scale on fortress stats, even in colo. But garbage fortress stats are still bad when upgraded.
Civs that don't have musketeers usually don't need musketeers, you don't need a replacement, especially in fortress.Jotunir wrote:Why do you think that? They replace musketeers for the civs that lack them.
Fusiliers are just bad vs basically everything. Skirms melt them. They lose rather hard to most musk type units. They're a mediocre anti cav because their hp and melee damage / multiplier are just bad. They do soft counter goons but that's about it. They obviously have extra speed too, but that just doesn't win fights because of the shitty stats.
No one wnats to ship infinite mercs in late game instead of upgrades. Also no one wants fusiliers in industrialJotunir wrote:Well for Dutch that is no problem, they have the infinite fusilier card for late game. It makes them cost 200 gold each + 1 shipment, which is considerably better than paying 300 gold for one at the saloon if, and only if, you get them.
Germans have an even better offer at 100 gold each + 1 shipment, but it is a one time only card and they generally have less gold available than Dutch.
Still, we are speaking of industrial mercs, most games end before that.
tl;dr: 1 highlander > 1 fusilier, despite costing 100 less gold. They don't have the speed and the multiplier vs goons, but they have everything else, so...
LoOk_tOm wrote:I have something in particular against Kaisar (GERMANY NOOB mercenary LAMME FOREVER) And the other people (noobs) like suck kaiser ... just this ..
Re: Best / Most Useful Mercenaries?
I disagree with your assessment, they do have very high damage output and they are a valuable adition to any army.Kaiserklein wrote:Civs that don't have musketeers usually don't need musketeers, you don't need a replacement, especially in fortress. Fusiliers are just bad vs basically everything. Skirms melt them. They lose rather hard to most musk type units. They're a mediocre anti cav because their hp and melee damage / multiplier are just bad. They do soft counter goons but that's about it. They obviously have extra speed too, but that just doesn't win fights because of the shitty stats.
Skirms should melt them, they are anti infantry units...
They lose to Highlanders only, and that is because they have extra hp.
Also, their high speed should help you choose favourable matchups, raid their eco, etc.
Sometimes, adding some extra mercs is really useful, specially if you are pushing or being excessively pushed back, more so than upgrades. It is highly situational.Kaiserklein wrote:No one wnats to ship infinite mercs in late game instead of upgrades.
No they are not.Riotcoke wrote:Fusiliers are damn dogshit
Re: Best / Most Useful Mercenaries?
Fusiliers sucks ass, end of story. Think about it this way, one mine gives you enough gold for 6 units.
Re: Best / Most Useful Mercenaries?
I think with banks in mind, not only mines.gibson wrote:Fusiliers sucks ass, end of story. Think about it this way, one mine gives you enough gold for 6 units.
Also, as I said before, I would rather ship them, it is a better deal overall.
- chronique
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Re: Best / Most Useful Mercenaries?
@Jotunir you have the right to like a garbage units (i like rams), probleme here is you say that this unit can be use at a competitive level. Theirs stats are bad for theirs cost, there are always better option, and everybody with a better level told you that this unit sux.
Don't be stubborn at this point and move on.
Don't be stubborn at this point and move on.
Re: Best / Most Useful Mercenaries?
You guys are crazy trying to convince someone who:
a) uses all his energy to diss aoe3:DEleted
b) has a friggin' Fusilier as his avatar
a) uses all his energy to diss aoe3:DEleted
b) has a friggin' Fusilier as his avatar
Re: Best / Most Useful Mercenaries?
I have it as my avatar because it's my favourite unit.aaryngend wrote:You guys are crazy trying to convince someone who:
a) uses all his energy to diss aoe3:DEleted
b) has a friggin' Fusilier as his avatar
Rams do suck hard. Fusiliers are much better.chronique wrote:@Jotunir you have the right to like a garbage units (i like rams), probleme here is you say that this unit can be use at a competitive level. Theirs stats are bad for theirs cost, there are always better option, and everybody with a better level told you that this unit sux.
Don't be stubborn at this point and move on.
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- Ninja
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Re: Best / Most Useful Mercenaries?
the rhode island rams don't suck hard
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Re: Best / Most Useful Mercenaries?
They do not. Let's say they cost as much as 3.5 musks, and that's vet musks in fortress. 1 fusilier is 70 damage, 3.5 vet musks is almost 100 damage. And 300 hp to 630 total hp.Jotunir wrote:I disagree with your assessment, they do have very high damage output and they are a valuable adition to any army.
I know we can't really maths like that, notably because of drop off, but still the difference is huge. Fusiliers have shit stats.
They kill them twice as fast as they kill most musks, that's the point...Jotunir wrote:Skirms should melt them, they are anti infantry units...
I guess we aren't playing the same game, if your fusiliers only lose to highlanders lol. Like I explained they lose to any ranged infantry and any musk. They lose to cannons. They don't hard counter goons nor cav. They hard counter pikes I guess..?Jotunir wrote:They lose to Highlanders only, and that is because they have extra hp.
Sure, I acknowledged that. That's basically the only good thing about the unit. Doesn't nearly make up for all its horrible aspects.Jotunir wrote:Also, their high speed should help you choose favourable matchups, raid their eco, etc.
No. Shipping this dogshit unit instead of training more industrial, carded units? And instead of shipping useful late game upgrades? Never. Plus you have to wait 1 whole minute for them to come, gl holding a push with that.Kaiserklein wrote:Sometimes, adding some extra mercs is really useful, specially if you are pushing or being excessively pushed back, more so than upgrades. It is highly situational.
For the record, I probably played more games with fusiliers (or any merc for that matter) than anyone else here. And I can tell you I'm unhappy when I get them in the saloon, because it's a game losing merc in so many MUs. Gl beating any civ with strong infantry (or tbh any civ at all) with that unit.
It's just fun to play with it because it's so fast and trolly, and you can outplay yiour opponent. But it's inherently garbage.
LoOk_tOm wrote:I have something in particular against Kaisar (GERMANY NOOB mercenary LAMME FOREVER) And the other people (noobs) like suck kaiser ... just this ..
Re: Best / Most Useful Mercenaries?
I get your point, I still think they are awesome and the trolly potential is outrageous. One thing that I would like to point out is that you should compare them to 2 musketeers since they occupy 2 pop. This reminds me of the old "Ruyters are lame" thread.Kaiserklein wrote:They do not. Let's say they cost as much as 3.5 musks, and that's vet musks in fortress. 1 fusilier is 70 damage, 3.5 vet musks is almost 100 damage. And 300 hp to 630 total hp.Jotunir wrote:I disagree with your assessment, they do have very high damage output and they are a valuable adition to any army.
I know we can't really maths like that, notably because of drop off, but still the difference is huge. Fusiliers have shit stats.
They kill them twice as fast as they kill most musks, that's the point...Jotunir wrote:Skirms should melt them, they are anti infantry units...
I guess we aren't playing the same game, if your fusiliers only lose to highlanders lol. Like I explained they lose to any ranged infantry and any musk. They lose to cannons. They don't hard counter goons nor cav. They hard counter pikes I guess..?Jotunir wrote:They lose to Highlanders only, and that is because they have extra hp.
Sure, I acknowledged that. That's basically the only good thing about the unit. Doesn't nearly make up for all its horrible aspects.Jotunir wrote:Also, their high speed should help you choose favourable matchups, raid their eco, etc.
No. Shipping this dogshit unit instead of training more industrial, carded units? And instead of shipping useful late game upgrades? Never. Plus you have to wait 1 whole minute for them to come, gl holding a push with that.Kaiserklein wrote:Sometimes, adding some extra mercs is really useful, specially if you are pushing or being excessively pushed back, more so than upgrades. It is highly situational.
For the record, I probably played more games with fusiliers (or any merc for that matter) than anyone else here. And I can tell you I'm unhappy when I get them in the saloon, because it's a game losing merc in so many MUs. Gl beating any civ with strong infantry (or tbh any civ at all) with that unit.
It's just fun to play with it because it's so fast and trolly, and you can outplay yiour opponent. But it's inherently garbage.
I prefer quality over quantity.
Re: Best / Most Useful Mercenaries?
bold statement, thoughts @Riotcoke @deleted_user4 @meKaiserklein wrote:For the record, I probably played more games with fusiliers (or any merc for that matter) than anyone else here.
Re: Best / Most Useful Mercenaries?
He has a love-hate relationship with them, that explains it.gibson wrote:bold statement, thoughts @Riotcoke @deleted_user4 @meKaiserklein wrote:For the record, I probably played more games with fusiliers (or any merc for that matter) than anyone else here.
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