Are 14 different civs too many??

[MCJim]

Lately I've been thinking about this game a bit and I came to an interesting point: Does this game have too many civs for competitive play?
If you think about it, it's ridiculous. Take British; during a tourney you will face an opponent, but you don't know what civ he's gonna play. This means you have to prepare for 14 different match ups! And now I'm only talking about British. Take French, and again you have to prepare yourself for 14 different match ups. How much time do you actually have to spend to know what to do in every match up? Isn't this too hard for people overall?
Do you think the game was better if it didn't have 14 different civs? What civ should be "deleted" in your opinion?
Discuss!

[momuuu]

If you plan properly, you only have to prepare 14 match ups for a tournament match, and if you read your opponents well it can be reduced to 4-5.

The problem with 14 civs is that there are 169 match ups, and thus tons of imbalanced match ups. Its impossible to tweak match ups individually while messing up other match ups. So esoc patch or not, the game is really alwats going to be slightly imbalanced, and will always have quite a few match ups that are literally unplayable if you also want to have a shot at winning.

[fightinfrenchman]

No game can ever have perfect balance, so honestly there is nothing wrong with having lots of civs. Personally I would prefer more

[farran34]

I think the large amount of civs in this game has both positives and negatives. The positives include much variety, cool units and match ups, and just an overall good feeling of being able to use so many different civs. The main negative is it makes many match ups unfair, and therefore making the game less competitive. Personally, I think the positives outweigh the negatives considering this game has little money available to win, and should mostly be played for fun. For instance, the old fan patch made all the civs very similar, and had pretty good balance (I think), but just got boring to most because each civ had close to the same play-style.
We could make the game more competitive by doing many things, but they would take much fun out of the game. An example would be eliminating treasures (or same treasures every map in same spots), this surely would eliminate much of the luck in the game.

[Jaeger]

I think the large amount of civs in this game has both positives and negatives. The positives include much variety, cool units and match ups, and just an overall good feeling of being able to use so many different civs. The main negative is it makes many match ups unfair, and therefore making the game less competitive. Personally, I think the positives outweigh the negatives considering this game has little money available to win, and should mostly be played for fun. For instance, the old fan patch made all the civs very similar, and had pretty good balance (I think), but just got boring to most because each civ had close to the same play-style.
We could make the game more competitive by doing many things, but they would take much fun out of the game. An example would be eliminating treasures (or same treasures every map in same spots), this surely would eliminate much of the luck in the game.

I don't think unbalanced matchups are a problem. If you want to play competitively just restrict yourself to the top 2-4 civs like everyone else does and ignore the rest.

[SoldieR]

14 civs is exactly why this game is so hard to master. On RE patch, its more simple because there are quite some gaps in matchups.

The uniqueness is why this game is so enticing, for me. I like most civs, and like using specific units from time to time

[_DB_]

What civ should be "deleted" in your opinion?

If Iro is deleted, imo not a lot of people will care about it.

I think very less players play Ports too, but I find ports more interesting civ to play than iro so I won't like to see them deleted.

[evilcheadar]

I prefer only a few civs, so it's probably fine if the rest are scratched.

[noissance]

i would like the civ that lets u make laser bears, to combat moesbar's hacks (80 food/40 gold)

[Marco1698]

That's why the real pro players play one civ. Look dyddyd or Jui for example. Also on Starcraft you can see like the best pro players used to play one race. Overall, i would not delete any civ, to give the possibility to play all the various civilizations, according to your tastes

[purplesquid]

I like the variety because then different match ups are fair on different maps. I guarantee that for any given match up a map could be made to make that match up 100% fair. Thus to me is one of the things I think is interesting about the game; you are playing against the map as much as your opponent's civ. . .

[Papist]

Variety and entertainment are far more important than balance.

[yurashic]

Just play the game.

[britishmusketeer]

When you get to around pr30, you generally have enough understanding of the game to be able to pick up a new civ and have a good idea of what do do in each of its 14 matchups. As for tournament preparation, high level players will have at least a few civs that they have played so many games with, that they will have played every matchup countless times with that civ.

[Garja]

AOE games are not supposed to be 100% balanced. They're somewhat balanced per expansion (euro, twc, tad) or per civ feature (take fre-brits MU for example).
That said for competitive play (tourney) the logic is usually just to have 1-2 strong strategy for each civ and when that doesn't work you change the civ. If there is no valid alternative then you mirror.
Trying to beat every civ with a single one is very desireable but not really possible.

[yoqpasa]

Just play the game.

Lol

Play the game and STFU you crybaby!

[Kaiserklein]

That's why the real pro players play one civ. Look dyddyd or Jui for example. Also on Starcraft you can see like the best pro players used to play one race. Overall, i would not delete any civ, to give the possibility to play all the various civilizations, according to your tastes

Top players don't play 1 civ at all. dyddyd isn't a "pro" btw

[Marco1698]

That's why the real pro players play one civ. Look dyddyd or Jui for example. Also on Starcraft you can see like the best pro players used to play one race. Overall, i would not delete any civ, to give the possibility to play all the various civilizations, according to your tastes

Top players don't play 1 civ at all. dyddyd isn't a "pro" btw

pr 38 is pro in my book

[lordraphael]

That's why the real pro players play one civ. Look dyddyd or Jui for example. Also on Starcraft you can see like the best pro players used to play one race. Overall, i would not delete any civ, to give the possibility to play all the various civilizations, according to your tastes

wrong just utterly wrong. Most good players can play a good number of civs. Besides you cannot compare aoe and sc2 races in sc2 are completly different with different macro and micro mechanics. Add this on top of the brutaly competitive level and it becomes clear why no players play all 3 races in tournaments. However this doesnt mean that they cannot play those other races . Players like taeja were famous for playing rdm at a very high level although he only played terran in tournaments.

[Marco1698]

That's why the real pro players play one civ. Look dyddyd or Jui for example. Also on Starcraft you can see like the best pro players used to play one race. Overall, i would not delete any civ, to give the possibility to play all the various civilizations, according to your tastes

Top players don't play 1 civ at all. dyddyd isn't a "pro" btw

of course I mean expert/top player, not who plays as job

[Marco1698]

That's why the real pro players play one civ. Look dyddyd or Jui for example. Also on Starcraft you can see like the best pro players used to play one race. Overall, i would not delete any civ, to give the possibility to play all the various civilizations, according to your tastes

wrong just utterly wrong. Most good players can play a good number of civs. Besides you cannot compare aoe and sc2 races in sc2 are completly different with different macro and micro mechanics. Add this on top of the brutaly competitive level and it becomes clear why no players play all 3 races in tournaments. However this doesnt mean that they cannot play those other races . Players like taeja were famous for playing rdm at a very high level although he only played terran in tournaments.

I didn't write they can play one civ,I said they decide to choose one civ and play it

[thebritish]

IMO, we need more civilisations because from all of these 14 civs, only 5-6 are very good while others are good(3-4) and the rest just suck (4-5)

[[Armag] diarouga]

He only plays one civ which means he'll get rekt in tournaments.

[look]

about dyddyd91, him with little training he can get high level with any civ..
and kaiserklein nob

[[Armag] diarouga]

and kaiserklein nob

:O