No Flag Zhanson10
Dragoon
Donator 01
Posts: 428

12 Jul 2016, 12:03

IMO one of the biggest issues of this game is that skirms don't adequately counter musks. Now, of course you can kite (however you spell it) and whiddle down your opponents musks. True. However, that doesn't always work. Ashigarus, for example, will end up outrunning your skirms, And in a standing fight of equal resources, musks beat skirms. That's right, and I might provide video of gameplay for it soon, proving that in general, musks beat skirms in standing fights. Now, since skirms are supposed to be the counter to heavy infantry like musks, I'm a little outraged. If you're going to patch something, buff skirms so they beat the units theyre supposed to counter in a fair fight.
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Hungary Dsy
Lancer
Posts: 916

12 Jul 2016, 12:23

You make my day man.:D
Skirmisher is already a strong unit.

But japan has too many upgrades for units which makes them OP until a point of the game. But thats a civ midgame unabalance issue rather than skirmishers in general.
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Bavaria Gichtenlord
Howdah
Donator 03
Posts: 1431

12 Jul 2016, 12:26

your troll attempts are not gud
r]
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Italy Garja
ESOC Maps Team
Donator 02
Posts: 7900
ESO: Garja

12 Jul 2016, 12:29

Ye seriously, all these posts do sound like trolling. It doesn't seem your ideas are proving to be very popular, so you might as well take a break and reconsider your game knowledge.
Great Britain Hazza54321
Gendarme
Donator 01
Posts: 6388
ESO: PrinceofBabu

12 Jul 2016, 12:44

#bufffrance
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Poland pecelot
Retired Contributor
Donator 03
Posts: 10001
ESO: Pezet
Location: Poland

12 Jul 2016, 14:31

#buffffffffffffrance
Ars longa, vita brevis :unsure:
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France [Armag] diarouga
Gendarme
NWC LAN Gold
Posts: 9912
ESO: diarouga
Location: France

12 Jul 2016, 15:20

lol the british is back!

#BZ10
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Hungary Dsy
Lancer
Posts: 916

12 Jul 2016, 16:44

This guy isnt thebritish.
Thebritish said more strange/idiot things like ashi raid isnt a problem because cassadors has the same speed so you can raid with cassadors too...

This guy has some point even its not correct. I mean thats true that japan ashis get too strong unti a point of the game and they basicly kill everything. But yeah he shouldnt be so loud like now anyway.
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Spain yoqpasa
Lancer
Posts: 576
ESO: yoqpasa

12 Jul 2016, 16:46

New shitposter confirmed.

It's not thebritish, he would never want skirms to be buffed.
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Great Britain Hazza54321
Gendarme
Donator 01
Posts: 6388
ESO: PrinceofBabu

12 Jul 2016, 18:27

#buff lbs
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No Flag howlingwolfpaw
Howdah
Posts: 1907

12 Jul 2016, 19:26

I think skirms do a fine job of killing HI, its the Light cav where its just a stand still. dragoons should have a melee resist so that skirms can counter them, Because its basically the saem thing for cav vs goons too. If a hand cav gets in close without goon kiting they are basically doing the same damage to each other but the HC has more HP. The goon is not resisting the unit is meant to counter like all other counter units resist is tuned to. That would be like making a new heavy infantry with a range resist. They would be pretty near unbeatable. like how pesky goons are now. Its one of the reasons I love india is that I can make urumi that slaughter big groups of goons.
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United States of America noissance
Howdah
Donator 01
Posts: 1949
ESO: n0issance
Location: United States

12 Jul 2016, 20:06

There's an arsenal tech called counter infantry rifling that gives +1.0 to bonus vs musketeers ya know...
Crossbows need to be buffed though, 1.3x multiplier is pitiful.
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France Kaiserklein
Gendarme
Posts: 7868
Location: Paris
GameRanger ID: 5529322

12 Jul 2016, 20:18

Honestly skirms are just the strongest unit. By strongest, I mean that you won't find any other unit that can get that many free kills by kiting and staying at range. Ofc then some units have better stats (like strelets) or are more mobile (like goons), but I feel like skirms are those units that get the best trades you can dream of, when microed well and well covered. For example it's not worth trying to kill 5 skirms with 50 musks when the skirms are at 20 range, because you will lose like 10 musks when being kited which is worth more than 5 skirms. Does anyone know a unit that can get such insane trades ? (no jinetes plz)
Can sirmusket calculate 5x - x??
LoOk_tOm wrote:I have something in particular against Kaisar (GERMANY NOOB mercenary LAMME FOREVER) And the other people (noobs) like suck kaiser ... just this ..
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Canada forgrin
Howdah
Posts: 1623
ESO: Forgrin

12 Jul 2016, 20:25

Kaiserklein wrote:Honestly skirms are just the strongest unit. By strongest, I mean that you won't find any other unit that can get that many free kills by kiting and staying at range. Ofc then some units have better stats (like strelets) or are more mobile (like goons), but I feel like skirms are those units that get the best trades you can dream of, when microed well and well covered. For example it's not worth trying to kill 5 skirms with 50 musks when the skirms are at 20 range, because you will lose like 10 musks when being kited which is worth more than 5 skirms. Does anyone know a unit that can get such insane trades ? (no jinetes plz)

Heavy cannons on strelets, no stagger mode.
https://www.twitch.tv/forgin14

"WTF WHERE ARE MY 10 FALCS" - AraGun_OP
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France [Armag] diarouga
Gendarme
NWC LAN Gold
Posts: 9912
ESO: diarouga
Location: France

12 Jul 2016, 20:26

Dark templars on vcs, ultralisks 7-3 vs marines 0-0.
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France Kaiserklein
Gendarme
Posts: 7868
Location: Paris
GameRanger ID: 5529322

12 Jul 2016, 20:32

forgrin wrote:
Kaiserklein wrote:Honestly skirms are just the strongest unit. By strongest, I mean that you won't find any other unit that can get that many free kills by kiting and staying at range. Ofc then some units have better stats (like strelets) or are more mobile (like goons), but I feel like skirms are those units that get the best trades you can dream of, when microed well and well covered. For example it's not worth trying to kill 5 skirms with 50 musks when the skirms are at 20 range, because you will lose like 10 musks when being kited which is worth more than 5 skirms. Does anyone know a unit that can get such insane trades ? (no jinetes plz)

Heavy cannons on strelets, no stagger mode.

If strelets are guard (they should since heavies are involved) I'm not even sure it's a better trade lol
Can sirmusket calculate 5x - x??
LoOk_tOm wrote:I have something in particular against Kaisar (GERMANY NOOB mercenary LAMME FOREVER) And the other people (noobs) like suck kaiser ... just this ..
No Flag Zhanson10
Dragoon
Donator 01
Posts: 428

12 Jul 2016, 20:38

Nah I'm a 1st lt and I beat a captain who played Dutch, as Japan. I made pure age 2 Ashis and he tried to hit and run but it didn't matter and he got rekked.
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No Flag ovi12
Jaeger
Posts: 4338

12 Jul 2016, 20:40

Kaiserklein wrote:
forgrin wrote:
Kaiserklein wrote:Honestly skirms are just the strongest unit. By strongest, I mean that you won't find any other unit that can get that many free kills by kiting and staying at range. Ofc then some units have better stats (like strelets) or are more mobile (like goons), but I feel like skirms are those units that get the best trades you can dream of, when microed well and well covered. For example it's not worth trying to kill 5 skirms with 50 musks when the skirms are at 20 range, because you will lose like 10 musks when being kited which is worth more than 5 skirms. Does anyone know a unit that can get such insane trades ? (no jinetes plz)

Heavy cannons on strelets, no stagger mode.

If strelets are guard (they should since heavies are involved) I'm not even sure it's a better trade lol

Depends, if it's 40 strelets they will all die but if it's 200 they will lose less than 40
Also I doubt you can kill 10 musks with 5 skirms, maybe 7-8
last time i cryed was because i stood on Lego
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France [Armag] diarouga
Gendarme
NWC LAN Gold
Posts: 9912
ESO: diarouga
Location: France

12 Jul 2016, 20:43

If you hit and run you'll kill at least 10 musks. Not 10 ashis though.
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Canada forgrin
Howdah
Posts: 1623
ESO: Forgrin

12 Jul 2016, 20:52

Ashi with the speed bonus are their own separate issue. Skirm beats musk easily (this is vet skirm vs normal musk which is most reasonable application), they have 37 more effective HP due to RR and 12 more attack only costing 20 more resources. Therefore you need something like twice the musk count to deal with skirms if you can somehow get within range without losing musk, so practically you need more like 3x more counting the ones you'll lose getting into range.
https://www.twitch.tv/forgin14

"WTF WHERE ARE MY 10 FALCS" - AraGun_OP
Great Britain Hazza54321
Gendarme
Donator 01
Posts: 6388
ESO: PrinceofBabu

12 Jul 2016, 21:15

forgrin wrote:
Kaiserklein wrote:Honestly skirms are just the strongest unit. By strongest, I mean that you won't find any other unit that can get that many free kills by kiting and staying at range. Ofc then some units have better stats (like strelets) or are more mobile (like goons), but I feel like skirms are those units that get the best trades you can dream of, when microed well and well covered. For example it's not worth trying to kill 5 skirms with 50 musks when the skirms are at 20 range, because you will lose like 10 musks when being kited which is worth more than 5 skirms. Does anyone know a unit that can get such insane trades ? (no jinetes plz)

Heavy cannons on strelets, no stagger mode.

U fool strelets> all
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United States of America lesllamas
Lancer
Posts: 617

12 Jul 2016, 21:46

Zhanson10 wrote:Nah I'm a 1st lt and I beat a captain who played Dutch, as Japan. I made pure age 2 Ashis and he tried to hit and run but it didn't matter and he got rekked.


That's it, I'm convinced!
No Flag Zhanson10
Dragoon
Donator 01
Posts: 428

12 Jul 2016, 22:10

lesllamas wrote:
Zhanson10 wrote:Nah I'm a 1st lt and I beat a captain who played Dutch, as Japan. I made pure age 2 Ashis and he tried to hit and run but it didn't matter and he got rekked.


That's it, I'm convinced!

I've seen acergame do the same vs high level players. In fact I remember when he made pure sepoy and annihilated kynesies equal number of longbow men
No Flag Zhanson10
Dragoon
Donator 01
Posts: 428

12 Jul 2016, 22:15

I've played colosseum and made pure longbow men and got beat by pure janissary
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New Zealand zoom
EP Project Lead
Posts: 8985
ESO: Funnu
Location: New_Sweland

12 Jul 2016, 22:22

To be fair, there is some credence to the point that ranged heavy infantry is dominant in the Colonial Age, and in some match-ups the entire game.
Currently effective ESOC Patch notes

Some players: "190w is such an awkward and ugly cost for Villages; not at all like 135w for Manor Houses! Oh, and make Musketeer batches cost 281.25f, 93.75c again!

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