Buff spies?

[DaRkNiTe1698]

Spies should be the best counter to any mercenary, but they are bad. What about buffing them? Or is there another way to counter mercenary?

[tedere12]

I do not think mercs are unbalanced, most of the times you dont get good mercs and it is always a risk when u go mercs since you dont know if there will be any good unit. So why would you buff spies' performance vs mercs? Probably standard army will eventually beat the merc involving army because of its cost efficiency

[edeholland]

You counter mercenaries with the counter of the unit the represent. Counter mamelukes with goons, jaegers with hussar and lil' bombards with more lil' bombards.

[Metis]

Ninja, sometimes available at the Saloon, counter other mercs. Also, various civs have a spies upgrade card. For example, France has the "assassins" card, which adds 5 absolute damage and also increases base damage by 100% vs. mercs.

Speaking of mercs, the German merc card gives 20% more hitpoints and attack, even for those mercs hired at the saloon.

[edeholland]

Also, various civs have a spies upgrade card. For example, France has the "assassins" card, which adds 5 absolute damage and also increases base damage by 100% vs. mercs.

Which is a terrible card. I don't know why you are suggesting this.

[Jaeger]

In some top matches from the PK clan tournaments multiple people made spies vs otto to counter mamelukes

[edeholland]

In some top matches from the PK clan tournaments multiple people made spies vs otto to counter mamelukes

I think he is talking about EP though, since he says "how about buffing them?"

[DaRkNiTe1698]

Dutch for example can send 8 spies, that should be a good card but it's not because spies are bad. I don't think they should inflict too much damage because you can send them for free, instead mercs are expansive, but it's stupid not having something which is really worth against mercs. Are ninja very good?

[Kaiserklein]

mercs r lammer strat so op op plz nerf
give spy x100 multiple

[DaRkNiTe1698]

mercs r lammer strat so op op plz nerf
give spy x100 multiple

I'd be glad to get your opinion, on this thread, since you use mercs very much

[sirmusket]

Spies should be the best counter to any mercenary, but they are bad. What about buffing them? Or is there another way to counter mercenary?

5 ronin with AM upgrade kinda shits on spies, which is sad, even with agents upgrade it doesn't seem enough , and not like spies are easy as hell to fund, 125c each might seem little, but if someone makes 10 siwss pike, 160c x 10= 1,600c, and you need to make spies, so 125c x 10= 1,250c even if you kill the swiss youv still spent as much almost, and besides, imagine dealing with highlanders, 10 of those (2kc) would rek spies, because of kiting, I'd say make spies have a little more bonus, if not that, make them a little cheaper, eg 90c or something. Or make them have more speed, we'd all luv to see 7 speed spies on the map

[sirmusket]

Dutch for example can send 8 spies, that should be a good card but it's not because spies are bad. I don't think they should inflict too much damage because you can send them for free, instead mercs are expansive, but it's stupid not having something which is really worth against mercs. Are ninja very good?

Ninja= 20 x10 vs merc= 200 attack which is insane, and they have 400 hp:
Spies however only do half of that damage, 20 x5, and only have 150hp, so therefore yes Ninjas are WAY BETTER, and Ninjas do only cost an extra 75 c, which is better considering they are better than 2 spies, 300hp 200 attack, vs 400hp 200 attack. Ninja is answer that said, its like 1/8 chance youll get that in saloon, so you'll have to ship.

[gibson]

Dutch for example can send 8 spies, that should be a good card but it's not because spies are bad. I don't think they should inflict too much damage because you can send them for free, instead mercs are expansive, but it's stupid not having something which is really worth against mercs. Are ninja very good?

ninjas are pretty decent. They're a very weird unit. Kind of like a rod with high seige but instead of having a multiplier vs cav they do vs mercs. They have like 30 base attack and 70 base seige or smt and can go invisible which is cool and sometimes nice

[KINGofOsmane]

spies are fine

[P i k i l i c]

Even with their high speed spies get kited too easily by ranged mercs but they can win games against Hackapells or Stradiots

[pecelot]

For example, France has the "assassins" card, which adds 5 absolute damage and also increases base damage by 100% vs. mercs.

Not only France

Dutch for example can send 8 spies

Not only Dutch

I don't see the problem at all. They counter mercenaries just fine if they can get to them. Of course it's your task to achieve that, but they don't have stealth option for no reason. Their main weakness is that they're melee infantry, but you have to deal with it — either flank your opponent or trap him. We can't buff them even more, since then mercs will just be totally unviable. They require more commitment, as you usually have to put them in your deck and send an expensive shipment, whereas spies are relatively cheap units from a relatively cheap building.

[lemmings121]

i'm even in favor of a indirect buff to mercs: give players some way of knowing which mercs are available at the start of the game, so you can plan you whole BO taking that into account.

having to build a saloon/temple to be able too see what you have, and only then adapting your bo in case something good is there is just bad design imo...

[spoiler]should be possible to do.. the obs UI already show this info, so its something possible to obtain in game. Maybe make the game send a mensage in chat at the start of the game with that info... its ugly but functional if nothing better is available[/spoiler]

[Gendarme]

RIP 2 falc shipment, you were good while you lasted in the meta. You shall now take your place among the legends of the past.

3:15 https://youtu.be/DA0BFWN0G7k?t=195

[pecelot]

yeah well I honestly sometimes wonder why spies aren't used in such a way much more often, it's always there on my to-do list...

[Lukas_L99]

RIP 2 falc shipment, you were good while you lasted in the meta. You shall now take your place among the legends of the past.

3:15 https://youtu.be/DA0BFWN0G7k?t=195

Imo grunt was kinda lucky that green didn't have his explorer grouped with his skirms, otherwise his spies would've just been visible and kinda useless in that case. Also they're quite expensive and have a low attack, grunt had 8 spies which cost 1000 coin+100 wood for a church, you'd usually be better off with just building an art foundry+1-2 culvs.

[Gendarme]

Hard to be offensive with culverins, is it not? Especially when you have no information of the army of your opponent. Perhaps he also knew that the explorer was dead in some awkward location and wouldn't join the battle anytime soon.

[lordraphael]

RIP 2 falc shipment, you were good while you lasted in the meta. You shall now take your place among the legends of the past.

3:15 https://youtu.be/DA0BFWN0G7k?t=195

Imo grunt was kinda lucky that green didn't have his explorer grouped with his skirms, otherwise his spies would've just been visible and kinda useless in that case. Also they're quite expensive and have a low attack, grunt had 8 spies which cost 1000 coin+100 wood for a church, you'd usually be better off with just building an art foundry+1-2 culvs.

i think 8 spies is a shipment. And spies used to be a lot better. THat game shows nothing.

[Lukas_L99]

Hard to be offensive with culverins, is it not? Especially when you have no information of the army of your opponent. Perhaps he also knew that the explorer was dead in some awkward location and wouldn't join the battle anytime soon.

Then that strategy works once and anyone who knows about this (especially if they see that 8 spy shipment in someone's deck if it was/is a card) will ransom their explorer if they ship or train falcs.

But apparently spies used to be stronger so that video is sadly useless.

[fei123456]

give them 20 range so they can deal with jaeger

[noissance]

make them cheaper or cost 1 pop