Toxic chat and the bullying of our best players are killing the comunity

[spanky4ever]

Ironically, this has become the greatest troll-thread.

and you contributons 2 that is big smurf - good for nothing

[DaRkNiTe1698]

Ironically, this has become the greatest troll-thread.

and you contributons 2 that is big smurf - good for nothing

I always asked myself why you type " - " everywhere

[_H2O]

Lets use this thread as a turning point in our community. I think everyone can work on the flaming, myself included :)!

[spadel]

It is a great achievement that there is still such an active community in a game which is regarded as dead since about 7 or 8 years now. I would have never expected that a couple years ago and I guess it's obvious that we have to give credits to all the people who actually contribute something to the community.

.. BUT (!!!) having said that, this topic hasn't covered the main problem for this toxic community at all in my opinion.. As much as I'm sorry for Garja, he is basically the only top player I know that has seriously been bullied so far. It is bad of course, but being in the centre of attention, especially in the internet, can always result in a shitstorm rather quickly, as we have seen now.

However, what hasn't been discussed at all so far.. where do you guys think that toxic in this community comes from? .. there may be many reasons but the one thing that comes to my mind immediately is how the current top players behave today, especially when they lose games. I can count the 33+ players, who can actually lose games without flaming or complaining about how shitty RE patch is and how much shittier EP patch is on one hand. This has been different at agesanctuary times.. very different! And what exactly is the problem about it? By streaming all those games were top players hate at everything and everyone when they lose (even in tournament games!!!! there is such a bad sportsmanship by some people this tourney, its disgusting), this behavior seems to be adopted by many lower players and as they become better they end up acting the same way, aswell. Losing games can be emotional and if you cant deal with it and moreover if you see even the best players not caring about sportsmanship neither, you have less incentive to act differently. It's not even about sportsmanship when losing games only, but more about respect for eachother in general. I could name easily like ten players who have developed to 33+ within the last year turning from respectful people to hating and disrespectful tards.

.. so what I'm basically trying to say. If you want to stop the community from becoming toxic, then especially those, who are in the centre of attention in this community, you should maybe start to reflect how your behavior may be perceived by those who look up to you.

[Jutlander]

Yes, the best answer is always to take the criticism and work from there.
Let's hope this starts going better, for everyone wants this community to stay alive.
Power to the people! (??)

[zoom]

It is a great achievement that there is still such an active community in a game which is regarded as dead since about 7 or 8 years now. I would have never expected that a couple years ago and I guess it's obvious that we have to give credits to all the people who actually contribute something to the community.

.. BUT (!!!) having said that, this topic hasn't covered the main problem for this toxic community at all in my opinion.. As much as I'm sorry for Garja, he is basically the only top player I know that has seriously been bullied so far. It is bad of course, but being in the centre of attention, especially in the internet, can always result in a shitstorm rather quickly, as we have seen now.

However, what hasn't been discussed at all so far.. where do you guys think that toxic in this community comes from? .. there may be many reasons but the one thing that comes to my mind immediately is how the current top players behave today, especially when they lose games. I can count the 33+ players, who can actually lose games without flaming or complaining about how shitty RE patch is and how much shittier EP patch is on one hand. This has been different at agesanctuary times.. very different! And what exactly is the problem about it? By streaming all those games were top players hate at everything and everyone when they lose (even in tournament games!!!! there is such a bad sportsmanship by some people this tourney, its disgusting), this behavior seems to be adopted by many lower players and as they become better they end up acting the same way, aswell. Losing games can be emotional and if you cant deal with it and moreover if you see even the best players not caring about sportsmanship neither, you have less incentive to act differently. It's not even about sportsmanship when losing games only, but more about respect for eachother in general. I could name easily like ten players who have developed to 33+ within the last year turning from respectful people to hating and disrespectful tards.

.. so what I'm basically trying to say. If you want to stop the community from becoming toxic, then especially those, who are in the centre of attention in this community, you should maybe start to reflect how your behavior may be perceived by those who look up to you.

I think you're somewhat wrong; the main difference is the behaviour now being broadcast. The behaviour, however, is absolutely deplorably pathetic indeed.

Edit: Sigh, always the one gui adding nothing one millisecond before you're about to submit.

[_H2O]

It is a great achievement that there is still such an active community in a game which is regarded as dead since about 7 or 8 years now. I would have never expected that a couple years ago and I guess it's obvious that we have to give credits to all the people who actually contribute something to the community.

.. BUT (!!!) having said that, this topic hasn't covered the main problem for this toxic community at all in my opinion.. As much as I'm sorry for Garja, he is basically the only top player I know that has seriously been bullied so far. It is bad of course, but being in the centre of attention, especially in the internet, can always result in a shitstorm rather quickly, as we have seen now.

However, what hasn't been discussed at all so far.. where do you guys think that toxic in this community comes from? .. there may be many reasons but the one thing that comes to my mind immediately is how the current top players behave today, especially when they lose games. I can count the 33+ players, who can actually lose games without flaming or complaining about how shitty RE patch is and how much shittier EP patch is on one hand. This has been different at agesanctuary times.. very different! And what exactly is the problem about it? By streaming all those games were top players hate at everything and everyone when they lose (even in tournament games!!!! there is such a bad sportsmanship by some people this tourney, its disgusting), this behavior seems to be adopted by many lower players and as they become better they end up acting the same way, aswell. Losing games can be emotional and if you cant deal with it and moreover if you see even the best players not caring about sportsmanship neither, you have less incentive to act differently. It's not even about sportsmanship when losing games only, but more about respect for eachother in general. I could name easily like ten players who have developed to 33+ within the last year turning from respectful people to hating and disrespectful tards.

.. so what I'm basically trying to say. If you want to stop the community from becoming toxic, then especially those, who are in the centre of attention in this community, you should maybe start to reflect how your behavior may be perceived by those who look up to you.

Agree with this post!

[deleted_user0]

^ recognized yourself?

[zoom]

welcome to the internet.

unfortunately. The world wide web brings out the worst in most people

The best is yet to come!

[rsy]

^ recognized yourself?

still trying to take potshots?
the thread is about trying to make the comm less toxic, if you keep making this kind of posts people eventually will stop caring about any posts u make. just forget it and move on as others try to, buddy.

[rsy]

as far as flaming goes, it is a different thing blaming losses on lag and making other similar excuses. Making it personal by bringing up fb pics or nationalities or personalities in general takes it to a different level, a level which is not acceptable at all. As far as I see, a lot of it comes from frustration and miscommunication between players, which in turn comes from passion for the game and a general competitive nature.

I believe in second chances though and I think this community has lots of hope and a ton of smart people who can analyze their behavior and be more respectful going on ahead.

[spanky4ever]

28 endorses my message thus far - GUESS ALOT OF PPL LIKE GARJA after all

[zoom]

^ recognized yourself?

still trying to take potshots?
the thread is about trying to make the comm less toxic, if you keep making this kind of posts people eventually will stop caring about any posts u make. just forget it and move on as others try to, buddy.

Between Ryan's and Somppukunkku's respective posts, the sheer irony on display is stunning.

[zoom]

28 endorses my message thus far - GUESS ALOT OF PPL LIKE GARJA after all

Everybody loves Garja!

[Warno]

I am new to the community but noticed a bit of it over the past few months - flaming in general stems from immaturity and jealousy so it's hard for me to get angry with it. Usually just makes me feel bad for the person.
When I found that this game was still alive after a decade I was elated and it boggles my mind that people would say anything negative about people trying to improve it/keep it from dying.

The main problem with the criticism that I can see is that there are no solutions, criticizing just for the sake of doing it without offering an alternative is not constructive:
- You don't like a map? Ok what can be done to improve it... Have you tried to develop some maps? Appreciate the effort and try to improve upon it.
- You don't like a balance change? Offer alternative nerf or buff solutions and start a conversation.


Lastly, the criticism of Interjection casting is the most insane thing I have read - he is by far the best caster in the community. He and Zuta casting some old tournament games brought me back to this game. If anyone follows sports/competitions you would know the best casting duo is a good play by play guy and a former pro. One gives summary of the action while the other offers insight.

[spanky4ever]

I am new to the community but noticed a bit of it over the past few months - usually flaming in general stems from immaturity and jealousy so it's hard for me to get angry with it. Usually just makes me feel bad for the person.
When I found that this game was still alive after a decade I was elated and it boggles my mind that people would say anything negative about people trying to improve it/keep it from dying.

The main problem with the criticism that I can see is that there are no solutions, criticizing just for the sake of doing it without offering an alternative is not constructive:
- You don't like a map? Ok what can be done to improve it... Have you tried to develop some maps? Appreciate the effort and try to improve upon it.
- You don't like a balance change? Offer alternative nerf or buff solutions and start a conversation.


Lastly, the criticism of Interjection casting is the most insane thing I have read - he is by far the best caster in the community. He and Zuta casting some old tournament games brought me back to this game. If anyone follows sports/competitions you would know the best casting duo is a good play by play guy and a former pro. One gives summary of the action while the other offers insight.

I guess that is pretty "spot on"

[EAGLEMUT]

^ recognized yourself?

I have recognized somppukunkku, who keeps talking about Ryan's toxicity in private chats, while he himself is unarguably one of the most toxic posters right here in plain sight.
Somppukunkku, who has attempted to force blind picks and skip maps in this very tournament.
Somppukunkku, who has single-handedly derailed previous community events to the point of being completely canceled! (RIP Saturday Smackdown/Battle Royale)

To me, you are a grand example of the toxicity brought up by this thread. Guess what, your insults to the map team have even already been referred here.

I'm not saying all your claims are baseless, but maybe you should start with yourself and think back on your own actions before the next time you call out others. Ryan at least admits it is a problem, while you still seem to believe that you do no wrong.

[Kaiserklein]

This thread has grown way too fast and I cba to answer everything. But I'll just talk shortly about my own experience with Garja. I was feeling a bit like iwillspankyou does : why is everyone so mean with Garja, a good player who made so many maps ? It felt unfair to me. That's because I actually didn't really know Garja yet.

It's easy to make this kind of thread iwillspankyou, when you just don't know the guy. Sorry but you're basically talking without knowing. I'm not blaming you, I know your purposes are noble and you just want people to cut the flaming/trolling/toxicity and be happy together. But about Garja, you're just kind of wrong.
It's very simple, it is not possible to play games vs Garja when you are a good player, and still like him after this. He is just so fucking toxic when he loses. I know what I'm talking about, I'm myself a really sore loser. But honestly Garja... It's just the next level. How can you appreciate someone who can resign 5 times in a row or so, just because you kill his explorer/you steal his treasure/he overgathers 20 wood/whatever, and who after all those rehosts isn't even sorry, but instead flames you ? How can you appreciate someone who insults you when he loses, and after this keeps inviting you to play again, and pms you stuff like "idc if you wanna play or not, idc about you, you just come play" or whatever... How can you appreciate someone who you beat like 5 times in a row, and after this still keeps telling you you suck and you have no clue about the game and he's so much better than you etc ?
Tbh you just can't, playing with him is worse than cancer. I even stopped it because it was so annoying to spend more time rehosting games than actually playing. The amount of obscene stuff he wrote is so amazing...

Meanwhile, it's true that I appreciate his work, he did a lot of maps and most are really nice. ESOC tourneys probs wouldn't be the same without him. And I don't like when people flame him so hard for maps because after all he spend his free time on them and gave much to the community. But come on, does it mean that he can act like a dick 24/7, and be excused because he made some maps ? If you want people to respect you, then also show some respect. I have absolutely no problem with flaming Garja really hard when he acts like a dick, because sometimes he just deserves it. If he can't fix his behavior then too bad for him, you can't expect people to all be nice and shut up when they get insulted. I don't like witch hunts though, so it's kind of retarded when people start bullying him all the time, but I mean, it's mainly his fault.
So yes, people should calm down a bit about Garja, and acknowledge his work on ESOC maps, but on the other hand Garja should also definitely change the way he behaves. Blaming people for flaming Garja after he behaves like a dick is just as stupid as if you created a thread saying people shouldn't flame me when I get upset when I lose and start flaming myself. It doesn't make sense.

Also, about inter, he's a really nice caster and who cares if he's not colonel or w/e, I still enjoy his casting more than most others. And unlike Garja, he did nothing to deserve the flame, so it really sucks if some guys flame him. I agree that twitch chats are really toxic in that matter, mostly a lot of people who don't have a clue what they talking about and just flame people they don't even know (just like sometimes in twitch chats I read some guys, that I didn't know even exist, flame me so hard... I mean what's their problem ? They don't know me, so why flame ? They don't know what they're talking about :/). Just because everyone and their mom suddenly seem to know better than other people when they're in a twitch chat, it creates this shit atmosphere.

About riki, the flames he sometimes gets is really stupid because he didn't do anything that would deserve this. He just makes maps, and is open to constructive criticism (here again, unlike Garja..........). People can dislike his maps, but then just don't flame blindly, but instead maybe try to be useful by providing constructive points.

[spanky4ever]

you made a constructive post @Kaiserklein

notification

- I respect your opinions and experiences. thx for the info you also agree that the shenanigans has gone a step to far - time to rewind

[deleted_user]

I've stopped caring

[Gendarme]

I've stopped caring

Nobody ever flames you. For you there is nothing but love from everyone.

[deleted_user]

I've stopped caring

Nobody ever flames you. For you there is nothing but love from everyone.

there's yet somppu but no worries i will wreck him in bo21 to shut him up forever

[Mvp618]

I've yet to play a competitive multiplayer game where rage and flame was nonexistent. People are invested in the game, and therefore they get emotional. A major part of the problem is that the community is small, so we see the same players over and over. To be honest I enjoy a bit flame in games, makes it more fun. That being said I have a pair of testicles unlike many of you.

[dicktator_]

Seems like everything that needs to be said in this thread has already been said. There is a problem of overwhelming negativity in the community. People should appreciate those that contribute maps/casted games/etc to the community and should offer constructive criticism rather than just complaining. Meanwhile, a lot of people (myself included) need to work on our attitudes when losing. It's collectively gotten worse over the past year or so and it needs to stop, and people who repeatedly flame/disrespect opponents should be called on it.

[Jaeger]

Seems like everything that needs to be said in this thread has already been said. There is a problem of overwhelming negativity in the community. People should appreciate those that contribute maps/casted games/etc to the community and should offer constructive criticism rather than just complaining. Meanwhile, a lot of people (myself included) need to work on our attitudes when losing. It's collectively gotten worse over the past year or so and it needs to stop, and people who repeatedly flame/disrespect opponents should be called on it.

Not only that, but even people making up excuses is really annoying. Like always complaining about pathing, lag, being tired, bugs, etc. Even if its true (most of the time I feel like its just excuses or venting, it's not like they play better normally) you shouldn't really complain about it.

That's one reason why I respect Aiz a lot, no matter what happens he never flames or makes excuses. No matter the MU, no matter that hus opponent stole 200g treasure and his own explorer died, he just keeps playing the game, as opposed to some people who just quit when they get their treasure stolen (yeah not trying to pick on h2o, many people do this)