Toxic chat and the bullying of our best players are killing the comunity

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Re: Toxic chat and the bullying of our best players are killing the comunity

Post by spanky4ever »

Diarouga wrote:Tbh garja has also been very toxic, eventhough I might have been more toxic than he has. He's not really a victim.
Musketeer925 and interjection are though.


I don not know the whole history - but I think Garja exit you for 24 hours - and you have been pesting him for 3 months!!!! I guess you deserved the exit - and dude - get over it :!: I respect you as a player and a contributor - but dont play the victime card again - sick of it
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Re: Toxic chat and the bullying of our best players are killing the comunity

Post by spanky4ever »

Lukas_L99 wrote:
iwillspankyou wrote:
you being a jugde of the biggest contributors to the comunity - What have you done? to make it better? just tell me - cos I really want to know :?:


I'm staying neutral but this argument isn't good at all. You can't say "don't criticize somebody cause he achieved more/he's way better than you!!!", that's pure bs


I made the argument cos this dude is only criticizing - BAD TIMING IMO
We seriously need something constructive - cos the guys who has been our "head and shoulders" are pretty much leaving :idea:
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Re: Toxic chat and the bullying of our best players are killing the comunity

Post by Lukas_L99 »

iwillspankyou wrote:
Lukas_L99 wrote:
iwillspankyou wrote:
you being a jugde of the biggest contributors to the comunity - What have you done? to make it better? just tell me - cos I really want to know :?:


I'm staying neutral but this argument isn't good at all. You can't say "don't criticize somebody cause he achieved more/he's way better than you!!!", that's pure bs


I made the argument cos this dude is only criticizing - BAD TIMING IMO
We seriously need something constructive - cos the guys who has been our "head and shoulders" are pretty much leaving :idea:


Only criticizing? Maybe you should read his post again. Also he's implying that Interjection might not have the insignt people like Veni, Umeu, H2O or WickedCossack have when commentating, but that's normal if someone doesn't even play the game, he's still a decent commentator IMO.


Gichtenlord wrote:
Well, what do you expect how people react, when one is a living aoe3 meme(garja), because of his actions, and the other one has outbursts of a little child on stream (you). Of course, there are people making fun of you.

About rikki: I dont really think people hated rikki for his maps, but more the fact that pretty much any new map, which was created by the esoc map team, got included in the tournament. You could have atleast made a poll before the tournament started, or when group stage was over, about new maps.

Interjection is definitely a great guy, but any player, who has decent understanding of the game, knows that his calls during his casts are not very accurate and superficial. He is great for beginners, but probably for players above captain/major sometimes annoying.

All 4 of you did much for the community, but you cant expect everyone to respect you-
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Re: Toxic chat and the bullying of our best players are killing the comunity

Post by saveyourskill »

Garja is one of my favorite pros. He does so much for the community, and for that I thank him for what he has done. As well as all the rest of you that has helped keep this game alive for as long as this. Thank you.
When I asked to play Ceylon he said he would and we had some great games on that map <3.
Also he is very entertaining to watch as he doesn't do standard play 24/7.
Maybe people are jealous of him.
I think he just has a lot of fans, maybe they don't show their support in positive ways thou.
Maybe they just want to push him to keep going and improving.
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Re: Toxic chat and the bullying of our best players are killing the comunity

Post by Diarouga »

iwillspankyou wrote:
Diarouga wrote:Tbh garja has also been very toxic, eventhough I might have been more toxic than he has. He's not really a victim.
Musketeer925 and interjection are though.


I don not know the whole history - but I think Garja exit you for 24 hours - and you have been pesting him for 3 months!!!! I guess you deserved the exit - and dude - get over it :!: I respect you as a player and a contributor - but dont play the victime card again - sick of it

Yes you don't know the story, but eventhough "garja exited me for 24hours", it was written banned permanently and he has been a dick before that anyway.
That's not the topic though, I totally agree with your point, but no need to call garja and H2O victims of the community while both have been wrong at some point.

Also you're saying that I'm playing the victim card, but actually you are :P
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Re: Toxic chat and the bullying of our best players are killing the comunity

Post by krichk »

@Gichtenlord @Lukas_L99 I would be agreeing with you if you were not vastly underestimating the problem. You talk like all the flame to people who spent hundreds of hours and/or dollars for the community was not a problem, while there IS obviously a problem since these people are leaving. And they're leaving because of trolls. So arguing that everything is perfectly normal is pointless, trying to solve the problem and putting our ego aside sounds like a much better idea.

EDIT: and i don't understand how people even care to spend some of their time typing rude shit on the internet but I know i'm being just a special kind of naive guy here :flowers:
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Re: Toxic chat and the bullying of our best players are killing the comunity

Post by deuxballesman »

Think about it this way, we still have legends playing and caring for a small community of a game that was popular more than 10 years ago! I for example loved playing it in highschool and such when it came out and I still like getting destroyed in ro128 of tournaments ;) People like me only stay here because of people like the esoc team are putting tremendous amount of efforts in keeping things alive.

As for as Inter is concerned I find shameful that people are bashing him, sure he is "just a lieut" and says "absolutely" wayy to often but who cares? Even with his flaws he is in all the best commentators duos/trios I can think of. This guy has animated a two hours or so event for like 2 years straight (thank you Zuta too :) ). And I enjoyed watching all of them (live or VOD).
Bashing guys like that who gave a lot to the community is being toxic. But tbh I don't think much people here are like that. I am not asking for a pure ban of all trolls. There are, to me, to very disctinct types of trolls: the pure troll one not offensive but annoying as hell and the bully. The latter is rarer and might they all be banned I think it would be for the best (but maybe I am just dreaming?)
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Re: Toxic chat and the bullying of our best players are killing the comunity

Post by Lukas_L99 »

krichk wrote:@Gichtenlord @Lukas_L99 I would be agreeing with you if you were not vastly underestimating the problem. You talk like all the flame to people who spent hundreds of hours and/or dollars for the community was not a problem, while there IS obviously a problem since these people are leaving. And they're leaving because of trolls. So arguing that everything is perfectly normal is pointless, trying to solve the problem and putting our ego aside sounds like a much better idea.

EDIT: and i don't understand how people even care to spend some of their time typing rude shit on the internet but I know i'm being just a special kind of naive guy here :flowers:


Look at my first post, I actually stated that I'm staying neutral and only said that her(?) argument was a poor one.

I actually agree that people are being too harsh at times by the way.
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Re: Toxic chat and the bullying of our best players are killing the comunity

Post by spanky4ever »

Diarouga wrote:
iwillspankyou wrote:
Diarouga wrote:Tbh garja has also been very toxic, eventhough I might have been more toxic than he has. He's not really a victim.
Musketeer925 and interjection are though.


I don not know the whole history - but I think Garja exit you for 24 hours - and you have been pesting him for 3 months!!!! I guess you deserved the exit - and dude - get over it :!: I respect you as a player and a contributor - but dont play the victime card again - sick of it

Yes you don't know the story, but eventhough "garja exited me for 24hours", it was written banned permanently and he has been a dick before that anyway.
That's not the topic though, I totally agree with your point, but no need to call garja and H2O victims of the community while both have been wrong at some point.

Also you're saying that I'm playing the victim card, but actually you are :P


I like that you agree with the post I made. But you should know -ALL OF US HAS DONE SOMETHING WRONG - AT SOME POINT IN TIME- that is not a exuce to be toxic and undermine the whole community! The point I am making, is that the ppl who put most time and effort to keep this community alive, is the ones that get flamed, ridiculed, bullied the most. If we do not stop it collectively, we will seas to exist :unsure: Fact :!:

Dont know why you say I play the victim card? I only try to support the comunity - and Im not a victim (if esoc is dead I am though)
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Re: Toxic chat and the bullying of our best players are killing the comunity

Post by 91 »

Great post.

If you want to keep contributors, you need to mind your tone and temper in the forums and chats. I prefer strict moderation any day. Contributors have to endure direct flames in pm skype or chats, or publically in chats and forums. Thats a fact.

It is mentally difficult having to endure this day after day. Its the web, you should be able to take some hits ofc, but you have no idea what our guys have to endure sometimes. Lots of stuff comes in pm and by simply being repeated a lot.

Remember what you have. You have probably hundreds of hours put in from contributors every week. Yes hundreds.

Map makers, balance testers, esoc planning/ideas/feedback, copy writing, proof reading, database admin, website styling, patch trouble shooting, website troubleshooting, imternal web/structure development, spam bot protection, new features website and tournament, streamers, stream/youtube video uploading, tournament thread creating, tournament admin decisions, tournament preparations rules/maps/finding casters/dealing with cancellations/players not showing up/staff disagreements/how to get less wo-wins, strategy guides, tech guides and responses for aoe/patch/map/rec problems, betting organization, designing graphics, news posts, spreading the word for tourneys and esoc on other websites. And thats just off the top of my head

Appreciate these guys or you lose them. I see morale go up and down but one of the biggest factor is almost always how we treat each other in the community.

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Re: Toxic chat and the bullying of our best players are killing the comunity

Post by Ashvin »

Diarouga wrote:
iwillspankyou wrote:
Diarouga wrote:Tbh garja has also been very toxic, eventhough I might have been more toxic than he has. He's not really a victim.
Musketeer925 and interjection are though.


I don not know the whole history - but I think Garja exit you for 24 hours - and you have been pesting him for 3 months!!!! I guess you deserved the exit - and dude - get over it :!: I respect you as a player and a contributor - but dont play the victime card again - sick of it

Yes you don't know the story, but eventhough "garja exited me for 24hours", it was written banned permanently and he has been a dick before that anyway.
That's not the topic though, I totally agree with your point, but no need to call garja and H2O victims of the community while both have been wrong at some point.

Also you're saying that I'm playing the victim card, but actually you are :P


Maybe Garja is toxic to you because of your language. Don't talk like a maniac, and try to be nice to everyone. I remember once I asked Osmane to play with you and he denied when you were streaming and you had no one to play with.
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Re: Toxic chat and the bullying of our best players are killing the comunity

Post by Diarouga »

I don't know, Osmane is weird, I've never been bad with him, and he's always acted nicely when I was here but like a dick in my behinds :P

Anyway, I don't see why we should cry because garja leaves and blame the people would flamed him but not the other way.
A lot of people also don't want to play with garja (Osmane included).
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Re: Toxic chat and the bullying of our best players are killing the comunity

Post by spanky4ever »

@Lukas_L99
Only criticizing? Maybe you should read his post again. Also he's implying that Interjection might not have the insignt people like Veni, Umeu, H2O or WickedCossack have when commentating, but that's normal if someone doesn't even play the game, he's still a decent commentator IMO


You could be right - but then again I would say you are very wrong - cos Interjection bring a spark, laughter, jokes and a bit of professionalism as a caster into the stream - and I :love: him for that :!:
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Re: Toxic chat and the bullying of our best players are killing the comunity

Post by Diarouga »

iwillspankyou wrote:
Diarouga wrote:
Show hidden quotes

Yes you don't know the story, but eventhough "garja exited me for 24hours", it was written banned permanently and he has been a dick before that anyway.
That's not the topic though, I totally agree with your point, but no need to call garja and H2O victims of the community while both have been wrong at some point.

Also you're saying that I'm playing the victim card, but actually you are :P


I like that you agree with the post I made. But you should know -ALL OF US HAS DONE SOMETHING WRONG - AT SOME POINT IN TIME- that is not a exuce to be toxic and undermine the whole community! The point I am making, is that the ppl who put most time and effort to keep this community alive, is the ones that get flamed, ridiculed, bullied the most. If we do not stop it collectively, we will seas to exist :unsure: Fact :!:

Dont know why you say I play the victim card? I only try to support the comunity - and Im not a victim (if esoc is dead I am though)

You present garja as a victim though, while he clearly isn't.
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Re: Toxic chat and the bullying of our best players are killing the comunity

Post by aligator92 »

@iwillspankyou
I absolutely agree with your post.
We should actually be much more thankful towards those who created this forum and all the events, maps, etc that come with it and those who keep it running. The media team, the site developers, the organizers, the casters and map makers. I think far to often we (myself included) take all this for granted. If it were not for this forum this game wouldn't have half the players it still has and there would hardly be any communication between players. So for those who like to make fun of the people I mentioned, who shit on their work instead of giving constructive criticism or outright bully them...Please take a moment to reflect on what you are doing. How much frustration you cause in them and therefore damage the entire community and in the end yourselves just for your own personal amusement.
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Re: Toxic chat and the bullying of our best players are killing the comunity

Post by Gichtenlord »

krichk wrote:@Gichtenlord @Lukas_L99 I would be agreeing with you if you were not vastly underestimating the problem. You talk like all the flame to people who spent hundreds of hours and/or dollars for the community was not a problem, while there IS obviously a problem since these people are leaving. And they're leaving because of trolls. So arguing that everything is perfectly normal is pointless, trying to solve the problem and putting our ego aside sounds like a much better idea.

EDIT: and i don't understand how people even care to spend some of their time typing rude shit on the internet but I know i'm being just a special kind of naive guy here :flowers:

How am I underestimating it?
Rikki and interjection are victims of internet trolling/hating, while h20 and garja polarize with their attitude and opinions. Just to clarify, I dont hate h20 and garja. Im just telling what I observe on twitch and on esoc.
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Re: Toxic chat and the bullying of our best players are killing the comunity

Post by lordraphael »

Lukas_L99 wrote:
Only criticizing? Maybe you should read his post again. Also he's implying that Interjection might not have the insignt people like Veni, Umeu, H2O or WickedCossack have when commentating, but that's normal if someone doesn't even play the game, he's still a decent commentator IMO.


hes a great commentator all he needs is a guy with knowledge at his side but even if he hasnt one hes still capable of putting up a good cast. Like i watched some of his replay casts on youtube and they are far from being bad they are actually very good. IMO Inter+ knowledgeable player is the best combo. I particularly liked wicked/ inter combo, Inter H2o was fine aswell.
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Re: Toxic chat and the bullying of our best players are killing the comunity

Post by Ashvin »

Diarouga wrote:Anyway, I don't see why we should cry because garja leaves and blame the people would flamed him but not the other way.


Because people who flame him like you are here but the contributors to the community are leaving.
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Re: Toxic chat and the bullying of our best players are killing the comunity

Post by Gichtenlord »

lordraphael wrote:
Lukas_L99 wrote:
Only criticizing? Maybe you should read his post again. Also he's implying that Interjection might not have the insignt people like Veni, Umeu, H2O or WickedCossack have when commentating, but that's normal if someone doesn't even play the game, he's still a decent commentator IMO.


hes a great commentator all he needs is a guy with knowledge at his side but even if he hasnt one hes still capable of putting up a good cast. Like i watched some of his replay casts on youtube and they are far from being bad they are actually very good. IMO Inter+ knowledgeable player is the best combo. I particularly liked wicked/ inter combo, Inter H2o was fine aswell.

Just like Artosis and Tasteless :P
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Re: Toxic chat and the bullying of our best players are killing the comunity

Post by spanky4ever »

Diarouga wrote:I don't know, Osmane is weird, I've never been bad with him, and he's always acted nicely when I was here but like a dick in my behinds :P

Anyway, I don't see why we should cry because garja leaves and blame the people would flamed him but not the other way.
A lot of people also don't want to play with garja (Osmane included).


I really dont like you language, and the way you are talking ppl down! Take a look at yourself - cos you are making such toxic statements! Pleace - Diarouga - you could be a good person for the comunity- start being one :P
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Re: Toxic chat and the bullying of our best players are killing the comunity

Post by benj89 »

I definitely agree that some people (I myself made fun of him 2-3 times) may have been too harsh with him, and that before judging someone you should not only consider your personal opinions but also what he did for the community. Even though I believe that few of these people would face a much harsher reality if they went out to the real world and acted the way they do on ESOC - therefore the critics "educate" them in a way but it should be done with moderation and common sense.
Let's be honest, if someone talks with the same arrogance as garja or few others on ESOC, he would get slapped or at the very least made fun of IRL. The difference between irl bullying and cyber bullying is that one can be prevented by closing internet/blocking people who offend you - internet bullying seems much nicer huh?
As a note, I don't believe these guys act the same way on the forum as they do in their lives, so they either haven't experienced enough social interaction to understand what's appropriate, either they compensate on the forum for them being weirdos irl - both sounds wrong but that's not the point here, we all have our own issues.

From there few options for those who are in this situation:
- be less sensitive: we can't start listening to each person's feelings, otherwise hypersensitive people will set the limits and there won't be any free speech anymore. Common sense respect should be established, that's about it imo: because it's internet does not protect you from mean comments as long as they are constructive. The non contructive ones are trolls are I'm all for moderating them. Having done lot's of work for the community does not give you a free pass to be arrogant neither. Would you be arrogant with a kid you mentor? No, that's why it's called volunteering. However people should show more appreciation for the ones who do work for it, in their free time
--> don't take the mean internet comment too seriously, and don't be that oversensitive/self centered person.
- Change the way you act/write - take constructive critics into accounts based on your ability to judge who's criticizing you.
- Simply don't care because you have your own reasons to act the way you do and be confident about it. Just be ready to face mean comments, you should be fine, I don't think any ESOC member will call you at home and flame on the phone anyway (wait..).

Acting wrong and then complain about mean comments, no. At the very least, block the ones who offend you, just takes one click.

My conclusion: don't be too harsh with someone who did some work for the community, or ask yourself what you've done before doing so. Don't act arrogant/stubborn neither or be ready to be judged. I'm all for moderating more the "mean" trolls in the chat, as long as it doesn't go back to some divinefire/arriah social justice warrior type of moderation.

For those who sent garja's fb profile, I'd love to see their face.
I've barely seen anyone criticizing interjection, his comments are more oriented toward lower skilled player and that's perfectly fine, he compensates with a great energy for those higher level players to still enjoy the stream. He seems like a cool guy anyway. If there was any mean comments, ratio must have been 1 for 10 positive one and he took them seriously--> refer to option 1 and hypersensitive people.
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Re: Toxic chat and the bullying of our best players are killing the comunity

Post by Diarouga »

iwillspankyou wrote:
Diarouga wrote:I don't know, Osmane is weird, I've never been bad with him, and he's always acted nicely when I was here but like a dick in my behinds :P

Anyway, I don't see why we should cry because garja leaves and blame the people would flamed him but not the other way.
A lot of people also don't want to play with garja (Osmane included).


I really dont like you language, and the way you are talking ppl down! Take a look at yourself - cos you are making such toxic statements! Pleace - Diarouga - you could be a good person for the comunity- start being one :P

The community doesn't deserve me :chinese:
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Re: Toxic chat and the bullying of our best players are killing the comunity

Post by spanky4ever »

@Gichtenlord
Just like Artosis and Tasteless


who are you referring 2? - I wish you would speak whole sentences :!:
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Re: Toxic chat and the bullying of our best players are killing the comunity

Post by Diarouga »

iwillspankyou wrote:@Gichtenlord
Just like Artosis and Tasteless


who are you referring 2? - I wish you would speak whole sentences :!:

They're two great commentators in Starcraft II, really awesome duo.
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Re: Toxic chat and the bullying of our best players are killing the comunity

Post by Gichtenlord »

iwillspankyou wrote:@Gichtenlord
Just like Artosis and Tasteless


who are you referring 2? - I wish you would speak whole sentences :!:

Artosis and Tasteless are the most known caster duo in sc2. Artosis has a broad knowledge about the game, while Tasteless is a good Play-by-Play caster. In aoe3 interjection would be tasteless, while artosis could be someone like h20/wicked/zutazuta.
When Im in a rts forum, I expect that to be a common knowledge, sorry :P .
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