[POLL] Should I remove the IP checker?

[XaKOps]

This tool is created to detect the smurfs / cheaters by ip.
But some people think that it will ruin the game because there are players who uses smurf acc because of the lack of games. -> Smurfing is a necessity.

I create a poll and ask all those interested to vote.

Discussions here: viewtopic.php?f=33&t=5878&start=200

[deleted_user0]

people who really want to go to the trouble to find out smurfs, can dl other ip checkers anyway. Higher players will say they need to smurf to find games, which is a bit true, lower ranked players will say, i want to know who smurfs me, cuz its not fair to play vs a higher ranked when you dont know who he is. Which is totally fair. do whatever u want anyway. This wont kill the game, moesbar + unstable servers + esoc tournaments did that already. (k last one is a bit of a joke)

[Kaiserklein]

But it will not be crowdfunded like this. The problem is right now, regardless of the account I'm logging onto, people will just read "Kaiser" on my IP, which I'm pretty sure you don't find with another tool.

[deleted_user0]

They wont, they only will if they go to the trouble of playing you on your main, register the account, and then keep track of the ip whenever they play. and lets be honest, the argument of the lower ranked players is stronger. tracking ip adresses is completely legal btw.

[QueenOfdestiny]

They wont, they only will if they go to the trouble of playing you on your main, register the account, and then keep track of the ip whenever they play. and lets be honest, the argument of the lower ranked players is stronger. tracking ip adresses is completely legal btw.

No in germany it is not legal and in germany to save IP´s its really a crime

[deleted_user0]

i doubt that, source?

[_NiceKING_]

It's not illegal, just like its not illegal to see someones street address

[Hazza54321]

still private information, you dont give ur address to random ppl on the internet

[_H2O]

You do when you say "come over to my place and play Aoe3." Old games that do direct pvp connection require sharing ip. Newer games that have server in between can help there.

[urmom69]

Displaying is legal.
Storing can be illegal.

A packet analyzer displays IPs, which is legal.

IPs are public in the sense that people can see them, however in software they are considered to be private information,
and moreover information tied to the IP address (such as usernames) are considered private.

Facebook cannot release your username and your IP address to the public (even if they wanted to).

The whole point of this is to protect privacy, so that Hazza can search for "Big b00ty hos" online and know that his secret
urges are safe.

The safest way for it to be legal is to get consent from the users, as Microsoft does in their EULA:

By using such features or otherwise engaging in Multiplayer Play, you agree that Microsoft or its agents may generate,
store and transmit certain information that identifies your computer to other computers for purposes of Multiplayer Play.
You also agree that the software may continue to generate, store and transmit such game information as necessary while
engaged in Multiplayer Play.

However, a user consents for Microsoft to store information. A user never consented for ESO-A to store information. When a user
connects to another user, they only give Microsoft consent.

However, for most of these cases, whether it's illegal really depends on whether the case will hold in court, so it's legal.

But if it were a larger application and you could bring a strong case as to why the data is sensitive (show damages), then you could sue.

@XaKOps

notification

As for your app, I've been following your project every since you started.

I think you should focus more on features which users would find useful.
All people are looking for right now is probably automated smurf/point trade/blacklist checking.
So when you get into a game, you can know more about your opponents (you don't need to display people's IPs).

For all the other features you created, I think you should turn them into a website. You're already using some kind of Chrome rendering,
so it would be easy to convert and as an app it probably takes the same CPU as a browser. I personally don't trust using the app since
none of the code is open source and my virus scanner stopped it last time I tried installing it (3 days ago).

[Kaiserklein]

Yeah so basically no one will sue for this, but it's still illegal, right ?

It's not illegal, just like its not illegal to see someones street address

But knowing who lives inside the house is illegal, unless the guy himself gave away that information. It's the same with IP and username

[urmom69]

Yeah so basically no one will sue for this, but it's still illegal, right ?

The laws for this were not meant to be used for this case, whether it's illegal is whether the data stored can be
considered "sensitive," and that case won't hold in court.

To be perfectly clear, it's illegal, but since these laws don't really apply to this case, a court would find this
to be legal.

[gibson]

still private information, you dont give ur address to random ppl on the internet

1173 Oak Haven Road

[Hazza54321]

still private information, you dont give ur address to random ppl on the internet

1173 Oak Haven Road

Yesh

[zoom]

i doubt that, source?

Hitler.

[zoom]

It obviously shouldn't be included in the first place, so yes. What would be acceptable is an admin ip-checker that alerts users of confirmed cheaters automatically.

It has nothing to do with ruining the game; its a matter of integrity and respect for privacy. This is one such case, where fundamental moral values and individual rights supercede the opinion of children obsessed with stalking. Frankly, it's sad that this is not at all a concern to you.

[deleted_user0]

Yeah so basically no one will sue for this, but it's still illegal, right ?

The laws for this were not meant to be used for this case, whether it's illegal is whether the data stored can be
considered "sensitive," and that case won't hold in court.

To be perfectly clear, it's illegal, but since these laws don't really apply to this case, a court would find this
to be legal.

You said displaying is legal though? AFAIK its indeed storing it, usually for the intent of selling the info to a 3rd party, is whats illegal in most countries, without consent obviously. But this app remembers the IP and pairs it with a name which it will show whenever that IP shows up in your connection again, is that the same as storing the info?

srs question.

[deleted_user0]

It obviously shouldn't be included in the first place, so yes. What would be acceptable is an admin ip-checker that alerts users of confirmed cheaters automatically.

It has nothing to do with ruining the game; its a matter of integrity and respect for privacy. This is one such case, where fundamental moral values and individual rights supercede the opinion of children obsessed with stalking. Frankly, it's sad that this is not at all a concern to you.

its ironic that you are talking about smurfing and integrity in the same context =_=

[dicktator_]

I'm going to quote myself from the the other thread. These are my concerns with an easily publicly available IP checker:

The gist of it is that this kind of software is meant to be in the hands of only a select few, not in the hands of the masses. When only in the hands of a few people, the IP checker can be put to good use, such as catching people who try to smurf tournaments, while not damaging the smurf culture that this game has enjoyed for years. Kaiserklein has already explained why smurfing is necessary in this game and everything he said on the matter is on point. Right now this software does not have many users, but I shudder to think what would happen if the word spread and more people started checking for IPs, and kicking anyone they believe to be a smurf. It's detrimental to the health of the game, because you're damaging a part of the game that has helped keep it alive for years. You'd be hard pressed to find a top tier player that hasn't smurfed at least once.

Before this, there were three barriers to obtaining access to an ip checker.
1. You had to know such a thing was possible.
2. You had to know what to look for.
3. You had to use a software that isn't exactly user friendly.
These barriers ensured that only a few people had access to the IP checker, which as I said before, is fine. However, by adding it to the esoc assistant, xakops has essentially removed all of these barriers. Now people that before have never thought of IP checking will use it, which is worrying because of the effect it may have on smurfing.

Unfortunately it looks like the majority of people are fine with it, so although I don't like it I'll accept it and do my best to work around it.

[edeholland]

And what is the worrying effect on smurfing?

[gibson]

I'm going to quote myself from the the other thread. These are my concerns with an easily publicly available IP checker:

The gist of it is that this kind of software is meant to be in the hands of only a select few, not in the hands of the masses. When only in the hands of a few people, the IP checker can be put to good use, such as catching people who try to smurf tournaments, while not damaging the smurf culture that this game has enjoyed for years. Kaiserklein has already explained why smurfing is necessary in this game and everything he said on the matter is on point. Right now this software does not have many users, but I shudder to think what would happen if the word spread and more people started checking for IPs, and kicking anyone they believe to be a smurf. It's detrimental to the health of the game, because you're damaging a part of the game that has helped keep it alive for years. You'd be hard pressed to find a top tier player that hasn't smurfed at least once.

Before this, there were three barriers to obtaining access to an ip checker.
1. You had to know such a thing was possible.
2. You had to know what to look for.
3. You had to use a software that isn't exactly user friendly.
These barriers ensured that only a few people had access to the IP checker, which as I said before, is fine. However, by adding it to the esoc assistant, xakops has essentially removed all of these barriers. Now people that before have never thought of IP checking will use it, which is worrying because of the effect it may have on smurfing.

Unfortunately it looks like the majority of people are fine with it, so although I don't like it I'll accept it and do my best to work around it.

this whole post came across as extremely elitist tbh

[lemmings121]

Displaying is legal.
Storing can be illegal.

in sumary: showing the ip in the software is fine, but if I get a pen an take notes, its ilegal.
Laws are complicated....


-
On topic, didnt even knew this was a thing. I'll make sure to download as test it.
Yea, its anoying when you play against a 1st lt, and the guy is obviouslly a smurf.. at least knowing who the guy is is nice

[momuuu]

Can be illegal, so its probably slightly more complicated than that.

[Gendarme]

Do cheaters really smurf? What's the point of cheating if not getting high PR/elo-rating on their main?

[leaf4]

Have none of you guys considered DDoS'ing as a threat to showing ip's? I dont have his thing but if you could see his ip its not very hard to just boot him offline...