Tournament civ restrictions

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France [Armag] diarouga
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Post by [Armag] diarouga »

lory1 wrote:
diarouga wrote:Who are you? Marco1698 the noob captain who plays for 2 years and doesnt improve because he thinks he knows everything?
dont be mad man. Its just a game. I still think India japs are far better than French. I am not a noob I play since some years and I am pr 30 on nilla. I didnt play for a while so I am still capt or so.

You can think that india and jap are better than fre, but is it normal to talk to me as if I was saying something stupid?
Btw, marco and you are nilla players, you dont know well these civs. Vs these 2 civs you cant play like vs others, but try to master india and japan and youll see that it isnt as easy as you may think.
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Post by [Armag] diarouga »

bramboy wrote:
diarouga wrote:Fre>'sioux, german>'sioux, Japon>'sioux and brit>'sioux.
I dont agree at all with that statement. French and Japan vs Sioux is a fair matchup, probably even in favor of Sioux. Im not sure about British and Germans because I havent played those mus a lot, but Im pretty sure a bow rider semi beats both British and Germans.

[img]http://i.gyazo.com/7e679fe729cd22fcd722bd2d396814bc.png[/img]

These games, all (my) Sioux vs French, played against MCJim were all won by me. I consider Jim to be a player just as good as I am, so I doubt a major skill difference influenced these games. Heres one of them:

http://www.agecommunity.com/stats/GameS ... =en-US&amp'GameID=ded148e7-0f99-4960-b742-3cfbd216748f&'sFlag=2&'md=ZS_Custom
Imo fre>'sioux, I didnt play vs good sioux players, but from what Ive seen/played, fre wins.
Japan>'sioux, no way a sioux can win vs someone walling and shrining or even vs a water boom.
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Post by lory1 »

diarouga wrote:
lory1 wrote: dont be mad man. Its just a game. I still think India japs are far better than French. I am not a noob I play since some years and I am pr 30 on nilla. I didnt play for a while so I am still capt or so.
You can think that india and jap are better than fre, but is it normal to talk to me as if I was saying something stupid?
Btw, marco and you are nilla players, you dont know well these civs. Vs these 2 civs you cant play like vs others, but try to master india and japan and youll see that it isnt as easy as you may think.

ok sorry for my behavior. But I think its not normal too think I am noob because I play since some years and my (nilla) is quite decent atm. Peace :)
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Post by lory1 »

aoefan4life wrote:I just think for a more competitive tournament, there should be more civ restrictions.

yes some civs are still lame. But the most lame who don''t require skill are just got banned at least
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Post by [Armag] diarouga »

lory1 wrote:
diarouga wrote:You can think that india and jap are better than fre, but is it normal to talk to me as if I was saying something stupid?
Btw, marco and you are nilla players, you dont know well these civs. Vs these 2 civs you cant play like vs others, but try to master india and japan and youll see that it isnt as easy as you may think.
ok sorry for my behavior. But I think its not normal too think I am noob because I play since some years and my (nilla) is quite decent atm. Peace :)


" is it normal to talk to me as if I was saying something stupid?" was adressed to marco^^
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Post by lory1 »

diarouga wrote:
lory1 wrote: ok sorry for my behavior. But I think its not normal too think I am noob because I play since some years and my (nilla) is quite decent atm. Peace :)
" is it normal to talk to me as if I was saying something stupid?" was adressed to marco^^

ye I am Marco lol
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Post by lemmings121 »

imo the current bans are just fine.
sioux is good, but not wtf good like iro/oto, the gap between these two and the rest is much higher..

as people say, if we just take out sioux, other civs will just pop out as 'op', so we will have to keep banning civs until there is only dutch mirrors :(
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Post by jsimons1289 »

diarouga wrote:
marco1698 wrote:LOL. Sorry this laughs me. You compare fre which is a normal civ to jap and india which are OP.
Who are you? Marco1698 the noob captain who plays for 2 years and doesnt improve because he thinks he knows everything?
Everyone is entitled to their opinion. If someone disagrees with you, try to explain your thoughts to make it clearer for people to understand - your thoughts could really help some people to improve.

We know that India 10/10 requires a low skill level and can be effective. Also, people are overly scared of an agra - so decent map placement will always give the Indian player an advantage. We also know with Japans shrine boom theres a small window of opportunity to push before their eco advantage kicks in / before they can mass. To beat such strategies you need to know the timings and scout well to work out what people are doing. This happens less frequently at low levels. We have a tendency on this forum to always talk about things from the optimal point of view, but we need to remember that not everyone is PR 50.

More people understand France and therefore this could make them to be perceived as easier to play against. The community has become better at not over committing and understand the importance of being able to contain their opponents. Previously people would over commit into base / sit on TC, or over engage in fights on hunts where the French player could use the tanking abilities of CDB to turn a battle to their advantage.

Sioux never used to be played as a 1v1 civ but was always banned from higher level team games. The current meta has changed, and in 1v1 they can be effective. Were still working out how best to counter Sioux, and until as a community we adapt and strategies and BOs emerge that can consistently win, were undoubtedly going to hear more about Sioux being OP.
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Post by [Armag] diarouga »

I did some tests today in the fre vs sioux MU and sioux can't win age2 and a semi ff is broken by a musk/bow timing.
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Post by deleted_user0 »

lory1 wrote:
aoefan4life wrote:I just think for a more competitive tournament, there should be more civ restrictions.
yes some civs are still lame. But the most lame who dont require skill are just got banned at least



Fre and germany take as much skill as iro, sioux takes less. So dunno what ur talking about. India and jap even more are complicated civs which require quite some experience and skill, doesnt mean theyre not strong or op.
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Post by [Armag] diarouga »

umeu wrote:
lory1 wrote: yes some civs are still lame. But the most lame who dont require skill are just got banned at least

Fre and germany take as much skill as iro, sioux takes less. So dunno what ur talking about. India and jap even more are complicated civs which require quite some experience and skill, doesnt mean theyre not strong or op.
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Post by CuCkO0 »

Sioux is broken end of discussion gg guys
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Post by Hazza54321 »

im sorry but a civ that requires literally no skill to play doesnt belong in a competitive tournament
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Post by [Armag] diarouga »

hazza54321 wrote:im sorry but a civ that requires literally no skill to play doesnt belong in a competitive tournament
You can counter sioux with other civs, that''s np.
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Post by blasdg »

People keep saying that all the time and it is simply not true at all. There are countless examples.

When you can counter Sioux (counter means WIN cause u pick a civ thats strictly better and owns Sioux) WHY did we see Sioux mirrors? Just why? The same is true for Japan. People say "omfg they suck so much before 8 mins" or "they los to every civ that can build muskets and rushes them" or "they get shat on by so many civs" (quotations from casters btw!!!). Then WHY do we see Japan mirrors all day long? Why not just pick a civ that shits on Japan and take an easy win?

This whole "civ A > civ B" argument seems to be pretty invalid when certain civs are rather mirrored than being outpicked/outdrafted. Still you hear it EVERY time that Japan sucks vs so many civs. Just show it in the Summer Championships!
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Post by Papist »

I think there is some misunderstanding here over what "OP"means. Just because aciv excels in one age or on one map, does not mean it is OP. In order fora civ to be OP, other civs must have no answer to one of its strats (e.g. Iroquois rush). But civs like Japan and China (which can both be taken out by an xbow/pike rush), "OP" does not apply. As several people have mentioned, players nowadays tend to label anything that they lose to and can't figure out howto deal with as OP.
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Post by deleted_user0 »

hazza54321 wrote:im sorry but a civ that requires literally no skill to play doesnt belong in a competitive tournament



Define skill?

Spain in nilla is a strategically one dimensional civ, yet its one of if not the most micro intense civ on that patch.
Russia is not a micro intense civ at all, yet its one of the more strategically challenging civs because it has so many different openers which all have a very distinct counter and effect.


Some civs score high in both dimensions, such as ports and japan. Others score a bit lower, and i would agree that otto might scale as one of the lowest. Though actually otto and iro too but a less so, is one of the most strategically deep civs in the game, with so many different bo''s and timings. Yet its kinda nullified by the fact that 1 or 2 of them are so effective its pointless to play any but those competitively. And thats when people start to cry lame blbla... Fre and germans require about as much skill, yet they are weaker by DESIGN.


Most people just have no clue wtf they talk about. Any civ in the hands of an unskilled player is simply going to suck.
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Post by lemmings121 »

blasdg wrote:People keep saying that all the time and it is simply not true at all. There are countless examples.

When you can counter Sioux (counter means WIN cause u pick a civ thats strictly better and owns Sioux) WHY did we see Sioux mirrors? Just why? The same is true for Japan. People say "omfg they suck so much before 8 mins" or "they los to every civ that can build muskets and rushes them" or "they get shat on by so many civs" (quotations from casters btw!!!). Then WHY do we see Japan mirrors all day long? Why not just pick a civ that shits on Japan and take an easy win?

This whole "civ A >' civ B" argument seems to be pretty invalid when certain civs are rather mirrored than being outpicked/outdrafted. Still you hear it EVERY time that Japan sucks vs so many civs. Just show it in the Summer Championships!

maybe the japanese/sioux player just change civs to avoid this unfavorable MUs, and people just end up mirroring to avoid counters on any side....

But I kinda have to agree with you on japs, pretty much everyone says they are garbage, but I''ve never seen this easy wins against them. that topic about japs was all about how easy it is to contain them.. but i''m yet to see how easy it is...
(ok, samwise japs vs germ on smackdown) but other then that, i cant remember another game..

(i''m not saying they are op.. but imo they are right on top, excluding iro/oto)
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Post by [Armag] diarouga »

blasdg wrote:People keep saying that all the time and it is simply not true at all. There are countless examples.

When you can counter Sioux (counter means WIN cause u pick a civ thats strictly better and owns Sioux) WHY did we see Sioux mirrors? Just why? The same is true for Japan. People say "omfg they suck so much before 8 mins" or "they los to every civ that can build muskets and rushes them" or "they get shat on by so many civs" (quotations from casters btw!!!). Then WHY do we see Japan mirrors all day long? Why not just pick a civ that shits on Japan and take an easy win?

This whole "civ A >' civ B" argument seems to be pretty invalid when certain civs are rather mirrored than being outpicked/outdrafted. Still you hear it EVERY time that Japan sucks vs so many civs. Just show it in the Summer Championships!
Why do people mirror fre, german, and, Brit? Because mirror MUs are more fair, and in a tournament you don''t want to take risks.
Azzy, iro and otto just rape jap. India, china, brit, fre and german do well vs them, it is a good civ but it is much harder to play as japan vs china or fre than fre or china vs japan.
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Post by Nymphomaniac »

well people like h2o, veni, blackstar, garja mirror most of their opponents civs be it Japan or french/germans. Again we only had 1 sioux mirror in entire ASC tourney. Sioux imo is OP in hands of a really good player, like blackstar or nagayumi as they showed in ASC' otherwise sioux having a poor eco can't be used effectively by an average player.
PS : anyone saying 'x' civ is OP should at least have played/won lots of matches with it, not lost a lot of matches to them. If its the latter case, then there's no point in accusing 'x' civ of being OP. Try playing with the civ u consider to be OP and figure it out yourself :)
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Post by bart331 »

Playing sioux mirror is terrible, its so random. Do you think our viewers are waiting for sioux mirrors? Two ppl spamming one unit and the one witht the most wins, gg no re.
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Post by Mimsy for President »

France is simpler to understand of course but Japan has much more weapons at its disposal. In that sense Japan is, to my mind, easier.
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Post by [Armag] diarouga »

shaolinstar wrote:France is simpler to understand of course but Japan has much more weapons at its disposal. In that sense Japan is, to my mind, easier.

You have more choices with japan, that makes it easier to take a bad one.
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Post by Mimsy for President »

Yeah if you are a conscript :D

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