You forgot to mention sioux! they seldom get wood, and if they do, its only 100. This is not good, when we all know how much they rely on a TP to be compatible
If then they can age with 16v and a TP without iddle time it would be a great idea, else it's just not enough...
Its not enough, but would certainly narrow the gap IMO
Sioux need more side buffs and tweaks, crates will certainly not be enough i think.
Of course you are right, but it kind of nags me that Sioux are left out of the discussion - once more - cos they get the short end of the stick when it comes to crates 2
I'm not in the EP team sorry, I can't help If I have an idea about how to balance sioux I'll let you know
Even though this thread is not in fact official this is an important topic in the patch team so we would appreciate you all vote and if at all possible state your reasoning in a reply! It will probably influence our decision. I was actually planning to post this poll but rouga beat me to it
Goodspeed wrote:Even though this thread is not in fact official this is an important topic in the patch team so we would appreciate you all vote and if at all possible state your reasoning in a reply! It will probably influence our decision. I was actually planning to post this poll but rouga beat me to it
Glad to hear that ideas are being heard! I think this might really be a way to patch the root source of balance problems rather than the symptoms (prime example: ulhan HP nerf).
You forgot to mention sioux! they seldom get wood, and if they do, its only 100. This is not good, when we all know how much they rely on a TP to be compatible
If then they can age with 16v and a TP without iddle time it would be a great idea, else it's just not enough...
What previous ep changes do you propose to stay? Wall nerf, goon nerf, Spain's unit shipment buffs?
The wall and the goon nerf are good. I think that instead of nerfing Genitour to 19 range, I would nerf them to 18 and add 3 goons to the shipment (then they wouldn't rape in late game anymore). Spain unit shipment buffs are fine imo.
Also what about Otto crates?
on 400w, chop 100w, build 2tp + house. so much fun. but tbf, i would vote for fixing coin. food makes then age sub at 4 mins, wood allows this double tp start with still normal age up time... maybe just coin is fine.
You forgot to mention sioux! they seldom get wood, and if they do, its only 100. This is not good, when we all know how much they rely on a TP to be compatible
If then they can age with 16v and a TP without iddle time it would be a great idea, else it's just not enough...
What previous ep changes do you propose to stay? Wall nerf, goon nerf, Spain's unit shipment buffs?
The wall and the goon nerf are good. I think that instead of nerfing Genitour to 19 range, I would nerf them to 18 and add 3 goons to the shipment (then they wouldn't rape in late game anymore). Spain unit shipment buffs are fine imo.
Also what about Otto crates?
on 400w, chop 100w, build 2tp + house. so much fun. but tbf, i would vote for fixing coin. food makes then age sub at 4 mins, wood allows this double tp start with still normal age up time... maybe just coin is fine.
Definitely not gold crate imo because it doesn't help them, and imo in a perfect game every single thing should have a goal (I know we're far from that), and letting 100c on the floor till 4min makes no sense to me A wood crate start would be very interesting, but it requires testing, because it's not as obvious as the fre/ger/russia/iro changes.
You forgot to mention sioux! they seldom get wood, and if they do, its only 100. This is not good, when we all know how much they rely on a TP to be compatible
If then they can age with 16v and a TP without iddle time it would be a great idea, else it's just not enough...
What previous ep changes do you propose to stay? Wall nerf, goon nerf, Spain's unit shipment buffs?
The wall and the goon nerf are good. I think that instead of nerfing Genitour to 19 range, I would nerf them to 18 and add 3 goons to the shipment (then they wouldn't rape in late game anymore). Spain unit shipment buffs are fine imo.
Also what about Otto crates?
on 400w, chop 100w, build 2tp + house. so much fun. but tbf, i would vote for fixing coin. food makes then age sub at 4 mins, wood allows this double tp start with still normal age up time... maybe just coin is fine.
Diarouga wrote:Definitely not gold crate imo because it doesn't help them
Yea thats my point. not every civ needs the best start, like you are saying that german or japs shouldn't have wood.
I don't think otto is weak, that's why. Because tbh just make this change happen before talking about what we would like if it actually happened. Seeing the results of the poll, it's not looking too well...
well, we have to talk about it to know if it should happen. even tho right now i think its a good thing, solid arguments can appear to make me change my view
fightinfrenchman wrote:I like the element of randomness it helps keep players on their toes and keeps games more exciting.
RNG in RTS game where everything matters can't be exciting.
treasures are everyone agrees that this game without treas would be a bit more balanced, but its just too boring.
Unless you're on the side that argues that scouting and treasuring in age 1 requires at least some measure of skill. Most of the time imbalances with treasures are the fault of the map, not treasures themselves.
fightinfrenchman wrote:I like the element of randomness it helps keep players on their toes and keeps games more exciting.
RNG in RTS game where everything matters can't be exciting.
treasures are everyone agrees that this game without treas would be a bit more balanced, but its just too boring.
Unless you're on the side that argues that scouting and treasuring in age 1 requires at least some measure of skill. Most of the time imbalances with treasures are the fault of the map, not treasures themselves.
nonono, I definatelly agree that treasuring requires skill. knowing patterns, when to pick up, when to wait, using your time well, its all skill. but you cant deny that sometimes you have that perfect 50c in front of your tc to help with hunting dogs, while your oponent has a 40f tres.... thats 100% luck. the only way to totally remove luck is making treasures simetrical/mirrored on the map...
While having the different possible crates does add a fun element to the game, it would make sense for the crates to be fixed on the EP patch imo. The difference between early tp germany and no early tp, japan 300wd start and 200wd start, ext is very noticable and large.
(before the nerf to germany) playing russia vs germany without early tp at least felt like you had the chance to outplay, whereas if they could get the early tp it just felt completely hopeless. Diarouga's example of germany vs aztec is very convincing also, as a mu should not be that influenced by crate randomness.
farran34 wrote:While having the different possible crates does add a fun element to the game, it would make sense for the crates to be fixed on the EP patch imo. The difference between early tp germany and no early tp, japan 300wd start and 200wd start, ext is very noticable and large. (before the nerf to germany) playing russia vs germany without early tp at least felt like you had the chance to outplay, whereas if they could get the early tp it just felt completely hopeless. Diarouga's example of germany vs aztec is very convincing also, as a mu should not be that influenced by crate randomness.
Good example. Also if crate spawn is not to your advantage, you usually try to compensate partially with treasure pick ups, which is yet another randomness factor that can fuck you over...
gibson wrote:There really is no legitimate argument against it except this "don't standardize the game blah blah blah blah" bullshit I think
It is much more complex than this honestly. I think also it is more inherent to whether you think that randomness is a good or bad factor in a game. Many games of success (e.g. poker) have some degree of randomness (generally more way more than AOE3) and they are still games of skill.
I can tell you that having played 40k (rough estimate) of games this is one of those elements that would have made it 20k or less.
lemmings121 
Atomiswave 
