Breezebrothers vs tabben on Colorado Porto vs Dutch

[tabben]

yo, helping out @deleted_user5 with some rec spam

Good game, some age2 aggression followed by age3/age4 play. This one had breeze go nuts over "RETARDED MU"

Who do you think is favoured on a 4-tp map, EP Dutch or EP Porto? Discuss below

[Jerimuno]

clearly ep dutch is nr 1 civ even re dutch is imba, no chance for porto gg no re

[deleted_user]

yo, helping out @deleted_user5 with some rec spam

Good game, some age2 aggression followed by age3/age4 play. This one had breeze go nuts over "RETARDED MU"

Who do you think is favoured on a 4-tp map, EP Dutch or EP Porto? Discuss below

10/10 thread, nice game,

But there is manipulation in the poll when you are saying 4tp Because basicly the top tp can't be taken and the 2nd one in your middle is generally bugged, so you don't have a point there . As you can see at the end of the game I have 9k more eco but since porto units are not good at all, they just got rekt, also keep in mind I didn't wall this game just to show the result of the match up without walls, if i did so, It would be %100 my win since you won't able to go into my base and i will just sit for 99 vill boom anyway. I must say it was a good game, About the mu, yes it's quite dutch favoured in ep6 because in age2 you generally overcommit vs dutch since their age up is not very predictable and in age3 there is nothing you can do with cassadors while you kill them even with ruyters ( you just did! ), I still think this mu is dutch favoured mu unless it's being played on water.

[tedere12]

[Hazza54321]

Misleading title, unsubbed to tabben polls

[Kaiserklein]

It's not a 4 tp map, it's a 3 vs 1 tp map. Which is not even as good as a 3 tp stagecoach, let alone a 4 tp stagecoach.

The mu is heavily dutch favoured, and I doubt this kind of mediocre stagecoach is enough to make it port favoured.

[princeofcarthage]

Counter Ego Post.

[Garja]

It's not a 4 tp map, it's a 3 vs 1 tp map. Which is not even as good as a 3 tp stagecoach, let alone a 4 tp stagecoach.

The mu is heavily dutch favoured, and I doubt this kind of mediocre stagecoach is enough to make it port favoured.

This seems too serious if a post ti be troll

[Kaiserklein]

It's just the truth

[deleted_user0]

Too lazy to check records, videos/twitch highlights would be better.

But I'm 99% sure Breeze didn't go for Colonial aggression which is the way to play this MU. Longer you evenly trade in colonial, longer your eco scales which also means closer you get to the dutch eco.

I feel if you let dutch age without any pressure, you get outmassed versus a better army.

(in maps without horizontal tp line)

[tabben]

Too lazy to check records, videos/twitch highlights would be better.

But I'm 99% sure Breeze didn't go for Colonial aggression which is the way to play this MU. Longer you evenly trade in colonial, longer your eco scales which also means closer you get to the dutch eco.

I feel if you let dutch age without any pressure, you get outmassed versus a better army.

That's actually exactly what he did One early push with musk/8bows + huss and then another just as i aged up. Was probably good, i couldn't go 5 banks vs that. I think he could've won by playing age3 this game instead of going IV just as resources on map were about to run out

[Kaiserklein]

A colo timing push before aging feels good yeah. Not just as ports btw, it's just good overall vs dutch because of lack of good anti cav/hard to mass from 2 buildings early on, resulting in an awkward unit composition, as well as just dutch being slow overall. I do it a lot as fr, ger, otto, etc.

However I think with proper building placement and even walls, dutch should be able to hold most colo pushes because they have skirms. So realistically you can't rely on that to win the match up if dutch doesn't misplay. And then as ports, you're fucked because you can't handle the skirm mass

[deleted_user0]

No. It's good especially as ports because of the scaling eco. You don't have to finish the game colonial, just slow down the banks building progress and strengthen your economy before moving to fortress war.

Just like russia, longer the game goes, stronger the civ gets.

And colonial skirm mass is the best port can wish for. Because after 8 pikes are gone, ports should spam as many fucking hus as they can.
Fortress skirm-ruyt mass is way way harder to handle. Organs bad, mames nerfed, cassadors suck ass

[Garja]

Port wins this MU on EP, or at least it's 5050

[Hazza54321]

They dont. Ports only win on a stagecoach or sea.

[deleted_user0]

Absolute truth:
Land non-tp:
Dutch 65% - Port 35%

Land tp, no good stage
Dutch 60% - Port 40%

Land TP with stage
Dutch 45% - Port 55%

Water with decent whales
Dutch 35% - Port 65%%

Sources: My ass.

[[Armag] diarouga]

Yea, I think you need at least a 3 TP map (like Arkansas or Baja) or a sea map to win as Port. Else Dutch can just hold with the same eco (if not more), and outscale eventually with better skirms and maybe even falcs.

[Hazza54321]

Dont start rax as dutch though DDDD

[Kickass_OP]

Portugal is also favored against India in this map.
See proof.

[EP1-2 SP] diarouga[PT] vs PrinceofKabul[IN] - ESOC Colorado.age3yrec

(838.17 KiB) Downloaded 52 times

ESOC Colorado

Rules: Supremacy (1v1)

Version: ESOC Patch 1.2

Length: 15 minutes

(Árø) diarouga (PR 37)

(HBIC) PrinceofKabul (PR 40)

[[Armag] diarouga]

Portugal is also favored against India in this map.
See proof.

[EP1-2 SP] diarouga[PT] vs PrinceofKabul[IN] - ESOC Colorado.age3yrec

One game isn't a proof lol. People didn't know how op sepoy+urumi mass with cease fire was back then. In fact, India was even considered as one of the worst civs back then.

Still, I'd say that Port does ok (maybe even wins) against India on Colorado if you can secure 3 TPs.

[Hazza54321]

Iirc that was when atp was new and people didnt know how to counter it

[Kickass_OP]

Portugal is also favored against India in this map.
See proof.

[EP1-2 SP] diarouga[PT] vs PrinceofKabul[IN] - ESOC Colorado.age3yrec

One game isn't a proof lol. People didn't know how op sepoy+urumi mass with cease fire was back then. In fact, India was even considered as one of the worst civs back then.

Still, I'd say that Port does ok (maybe even wins) against India on Colorado if you can secure 3 TPs.

Even at that time I think Kabuli was already a great player with India

[[Armag] diarouga]

Yes, if you manage to steal one TP as India (ie Port can only take 2), you're definitely ahead.

[Garja]

1 tp is fine. It's same as Fre-Dutch except better eco later but worse units.

[dicktator_]

Absolute truth:
Land non-tp:
Dutch 65% - Port 35%

Land tp, no good stage
Dutch 60% - Port 40%

Land TP with stage
Dutch 45% - Port 55%

Water with decent whales
Dutch 35% - Port 65%%

Sources: My ass.

Agreed and I would consider Colorado to be land tp without good stage