spain china

[chronique]

"they have good siege why dont you give it a try?"

You don't know who i am if you think i haven't try that. FF swiss pik is far far better.

[Majora_]

"they have good siege why dont you give it a try?"

You don't know who i am if you think i haven't try that. FF swiss pik is far far better.

ok

[Shikari]

Can someone post the halbs ff bo here?

[[Armag] diarouga]

halbs ff is just bad, swiss pikes are indeed better.

[Shikari]

There has to be some sort of adv of halb ff over Swiss pike ff. Won't halbs ff be faster?

[[Armag] diarouga]

There has to be some sort of adv of halb ff over Swiss pike ff. Won't halbs ff be faster?

Not really. You will get the halbs sooner of course but considering they have to walk, it will be like 20 sec faster in the end. Also you can't train skirms with a halb ff while you can with a swiss pike ff.

[Shikari]

Would be nice if someone can tell the bo for both though.

[japanesegeneral]

There has to be some sort of adv of halb ff over Swiss pike ff. Won't halbs ff be faster?

Is thougt the advantage was quite obvious: Your defesive timing is at an earlier point in time. Pro tip you can also ship lancers while training halbs.

[deleted_user]

china is probably favored

[chronique]

- piq swiss ff is like a normal ff (age 15 vili +2 age 2, 700 gold first then 700w) where you send 600 gold after 700 wood (or you can send 5 vili and gather 1000gold but not sure if its possible and if its worth it)

- halb ff same but send church card after 700w and you need a lot of vili on wood for the church + house.

[Mitoe]

There has to be some sort of adv of halb ff over Swiss pike ff. Won't halbs ff be faster?

Not really. You will get the halbs sooner of course but considering they have to walk, it will be like 20 sec faster in the end. Also you can't train skirms with a halb ff while you can with a swiss pike ff.

20 seconds is quite a lot faster to be honest

That's like a dead wonder

[Shikari]

- piq swiss ff is like a normal ff (age 15 vili +2 age 2, 700 gold first then 700w) where you send 600 gold after 700 wood (or you can send 5 vili and gather 1000gold but not sure if its possible and if its worth it)

- halb ff same but send church card after 700w and you need a lot of vili on wood for the church + house.

Age up with 2 vills instead of tower? Why?

[aligator92]

- piq swiss ff is like a normal ff (age 15 vili +2 age 2, 700 gold first then 700w) where you send 600 gold after 700 wood (or you can send 5 vili and gather 1000gold but not sure if its possible and if its worth it)

- halb ff same but send church card after 700w and you need a lot of vili on wood for the church + house.

Age up with 2 vills instead of tower? Why?

Train 2 vills in age 2

[chronique]

Yes age with 200g + tower and train 2 more vili.

Anyway, 13 halb are bad just becouse you have nothing else and they are too slow. If you want play aggro ff its better to send 8 piq age 2 after 700w becouse with that you can push before you reach age 3 (for exemple you can kill the china tp) and you can send 2 falc and train some skirm age 3.

[Shikari]

Man it's just that this strata seems fun I am just trying to find a single niche situation where it is better than normal Spain all in of shipping 8 pikes 3rd card aging with pikes and sending falcs first thing.

[Hazza54321]

Dont ever age with huss unless you plan to do the cav start

[Jaeger]

Lancer sux, this unit is worth than vet hussard. China just need to spam there cav + redcoat and rect your lancer rodo compo. And more the game is longest more this mu looks unplayable. Probably an other mu where the best way is ff allonie and light a candle.

I believe Blackstar did (and I tried this too with great success) all in ff vs China. That is, be in fortress at 7:05 with most forward tower, ship 8 pike and make musk in transition, age with 4 huss.

[chronique]

I believe Blackstar did (and I tried this too with great success) all in ff vs China. That is, be in fortress at 7:05 with most forward tower, ship 8 pike and make musk in transition, age with 4 huss.

This is the standard build but if china play properly it doesn't work. You have no real window because mm + 6 unit from wonder + op explo are enouth to tempo his age up, and 8 skirm are so hard to deal with when he is in base. But if you have the rec iam not againt!!

[Jaeger]

I believe Blackstar did (and I tried this too with great success) all in ff vs China. That is, be in fortress at 7:05 with most forward tower, ship 8 pike and make musk in transition, age with 4 huss.

This is the standard build but if china play properly it doesn't work. You have no real window because mm + 6 unit from wonder + op explo are enouth to tempo his age up, and 8 skirm are so hard to deal with when he is in base. But if you have the rec iam not againt!!

Hmm sorry I do not have a rec from Blackstar.

[Darwin_]

Lancers with ep cabelleros seem like they'd be absolutely lethal in this mu. Extra range would make their pathing in deathball engagements so much more favorable, and if you could get cav combat too it'd mean that they 2-shot chagdao, which is kinda absurd. I get that huss are more favourable in a cav-on-cav matchup, but lancers do twice as much damage against infantry, don't have to be upgraded to veteran, and with their extra range resist actually have the same ranged HP as vet huss, and have only like 10% less melee HP.

[chronique]

China make a lot of cav vs spain and you die before cabaelleros

[Mitoe]

Lancers with ep cabelleros seem like they'd be absolutely lethal in this mu. Extra range would make their pathing in deathball engagements so much more favorable, and if you could get cav combat too it'd mean that they 2-shot chagdao, which is kinda absurd. I get that huss are more favourable in a cav-on-cav matchup, but lancers do twice as much damage against infantry, don't have to be upgraded to veteran, and with their extra range resist actually have the same ranged HP as vet huss, and have only like 10% less melee HP.

It’s only +1 range, which helps but barely. For reference Meteor Hammers have 5 range.

In practice lancers don’t seem to work too well in this matchup anyway, but they seem good in theory.

[[Armag] diarouga]

Lancers aren't great against China.

[Hazza54321]

the only times i see china struggle after the initial pressure is where they dont make enough cavalry to block lancers and shit. Vs someone who mixes china cav lancers really become useless so vet huss is probably better mid to late fort if it gets to that

[dansil92]

You basically have to treat lancers like artillery, and while they can be effective vs a territorial bot, any china cav will easily dispatch lancers. (Once again, showing how broken the china mechanic of infantry and cav from one military building can be)