How to play properly vs FI

France iNcog
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How to play properly vs FI

Post by iNcog »

Fast Industrials have always stomped me, this game just shows why. Play greedy and freely but you end up losing to Age IV units that are just better than yours.

I know I'm doing it wrong but I don't know what the right way to play vs FI is.
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[EP7-1 SP] kami_ryu[DU] vs DarkGhost223[CH] - ESOC Fertile Crescent.age3yrec
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ESOC Fertile Crescent
ESOC Fertile Crescent
Rules: Supremacy (1v1)
Version: ESOC Patch 7.1
Length: 16 minutes
YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/incog_aoe
Garja wrote: ā†‘
20 Mar 2020, 21:46
I just hope DE is not going to implement all of the EP changes. Right now it is a big clusterfuck.
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India Challenger_Marco
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Re: How to play properly vs FI

Post by Challenger_Marco »

You FI yourself ,Dutch Age 4 also has big spike 2 hc 30 stadhoulders 5 stardoits ,unlimited cannons from x2 factoires
:nwc:
France iNcog
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Re: How to play properly vs FI

Post by iNcog »

Wouldn't the whole meta be defined around FI in that case?
YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/incog_aoe
Garja wrote: ā†‘
20 Mar 2020, 21:46
I just hope DE is not going to implement all of the EP changes. Right now it is a big clusterfuck.
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India Challenger_Marco
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Re: How to play properly vs FI

Post by Challenger_Marco »

iNcog wrote:Wouldn't the whole meta be defined around FI in that case?
No you are dutch here ,you need some seige to destory FI ,age 2 rush aint great as dutch i guess and in age 3 idk what you can do maybe a timing push can work with skrims+ryuters+hussars
:nwc:
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Re: How to play properly vs FI

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Post by Mr_Bramboy »

You don't FI yourself. That's the worst thing you can do. It's even worse against China because HC lose to crows.

I don't have time to watch the rec right now, but as Dutch you should have a window to punish any FI unless you were severely weakened in the early game for some reason. Stay fortress and mass, pick off shipments as they come out and keep pressuring. Get some culverins to deal with the crows preemptively.
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France [Armag] diarouga
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Re: How to play properly vs FI

Post by [Armag] diarouga »

Honestly, FI is a totally legit strat in this MU, definitely not easy to counter.

The only way is to scout it early enough and be aggressive. You can't let your opponent age for free and mass in age 4.
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United States of America Darwin_
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Re: How to play properly vs FI

Post by Darwin_ »

I feel like as dutch you either need to FF quickly (like 2 card 3/4-bank FF) and start poking with skirms as early as possible, or do 4/5 bank huss semi and try to bell the chinese player up as much as possible to prevent them from aging too quickly. If you can force them to stay fortress I feel like you've won as your eco should be slightly better and their composition is kinda subpar against you.

I've never played against an FI as dutch in this mu but I can't imagine that FI-ing yourself is really all that bad. Yes crows are really strong, old han is really strong (on RE), and getting 29 arquebusiers within 40 seconds of aging up is strong, but Dutch is no slouch either, though their industrial is more about prolonged strength than a power spike.
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India Challenger_Marco
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Re: How to play properly vs FI

Post by Challenger_Marco »

Darwin_ wrote:I feel like as dutch you either need to FF quickly (like 2 card 3/4-bank FF) and start poking with skirms as early as possible, or do 4/5 bank huss semi and try to bell the chinese player up as much as possible to prevent them from aging too quickly. If you can force them to stay fortress I feel like you've won as your eco should be slightly better and their composition is kinda subpar against you.

I've never played against an FI as dutch in this mu but I can't imagine that FI-ing yourself is really all that bad. Yes crows are really strong, old han is really strong (on RE), and getting 29 arquebusiers within 40 seconds of aging up is strong, but Dutch is no slouch either, though their industrial is more about prolonged strength than a power spike.
hey where is your unfinished semi ff japan build? i would like to see it finished!
:nwc:
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China Zeke
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Re: How to play properly vs FI

Post by Zeke »

Agree with what's said above, stay age 3 may be safer to fight China FI, but definitely don't give China too much time. FYI, the three most powerful shipments in age 4 are: 1k gold for 26 rattan shields, 17 arquebusiers, and infinite 2 crows. Tho there are more strong shipments like 8 meteor hammers or 7 iron flails, 18 changdao swordman, 2k food for 8 flails and 3 crows, some powerful upgrades, etc. You'd better check his deck to make sure what he may send. Another important point is to check which wonder China ages to industrial, the only two that give units are confusion academy (12 arquebusiers) and white pagoda (10 disciples), most China will age with the confusion academy or the porcelain tower to age 4.
Basic strat would be: get 5 banks ASAP and age, send 1k wood first, put down 1/2 raxs and 2 stables in the middle which controls China's future resources (can even wall his resource), harass his vills with a few skrims and vet huss while China is aging. If he stays passively, send 2 huss to check the mines outside his base. For buildings, kill the house (village) first, then the Chinese rax (war academy) and consulate. Try to clean up China's army right after age with dozen of vet huss and a few skrims. Then add some halbs ruyter since China will probably send rattan and other cav shipment. If u succeed with the first two fight, the following would be easy, just make skrim ruyter huss composition, research arsenal techs and send upgrade cards. The 2 key points are deny the resources and kill shipments with the correct unit composition (don't make too many skrim ruyter early on, as China can deal with them easily). I believe usually dutch need to overplay to win this, even it's clear that China wishes to go industrial.
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India Frosty_2
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Re: How to play properly vs FI

Post by Frosty_2 »

Semi ff, petards to take down wonders and villages, skirms and anti cavs.
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Holy See Imperial Noob
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Re: How to play properly vs FI

Post by Imperial Noob »

quartermaster, chopping in transition, build 2 raxes and houses, all on food, send 700w and start building pikes, send 600w, and when you think that you have enough pikes (say, 40), go attack,

Pillage 2 villages in 20 seconds after entering the town, then shift your focus to the war academy (likely won't have time to pop units) and then the TC. If you kill even only these buildings, you have already destroyed 1100w. Follow-up flexibly, adding skirms and / or 3 hus shipment to help slaughter survivors.

Use the cover mode and the speed of the pikes to your advantage.

go go piki!

/kappa
No Flag deleted_user
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Re: How to play properly vs FI

Post by deleted_user »

Imperial Noob wrote:quartermaster, chopping in transition, build 2 raxes and houses, all on food, send 700w and start building pikes, send 600w, and when you think that you have enough pikes (say, 40), go attack,

Pillage 2 villages in 20 seconds after entering the town, then shift your focus to the war academy (likely won't have time to pop units) and then the TC. If you kill even only these buildings, you have already destroyed 1100w. Follow-up flexibly, adding skirms and / or 3 hus shipment to help slaughter survivors.

Use the cover mode and the speed of the pikes to your advantage.

go go piki!

/kappa
If opponent scouts you just get semi'd ezly
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United States of America Darwin_
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Re: How to play properly vs FI

Post by Darwin_ »

Challenger_Marco wrote:
Darwin_ wrote:I feel like as dutch you either need to FF quickly (like 2 card 3/4-bank FF) and start poking with skirms as early as possible, or do 4/5 bank huss semi and try to bell the chinese player up as much as possible to prevent them from aging too quickly. If you can force them to stay fortress I feel like you've won as your eco should be slightly better and their composition is kinda subpar against you.

I've never played against an FI as dutch in this mu but I can't imagine that FI-ing yourself is really all that bad. Yes crows are really strong, old han is really strong (on RE), and getting 29 arquebusiers within 40 seconds of aging up is strong, but Dutch is no slouch either, though their industrial is more about prolonged strength than a power spike.
hey where is your unfinished semi ff japan build? i would like to see it finished!
Oh my I forgot that I never finished that, that was so long ago. I'll see what I can do ;)
somppukunkku wrote:This is not a fucking discogame.
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Canada Mitoe
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Re: How to play properly vs FI

Post by Mitoe »

Itā€™s not easy to punish China FI as Dutch. I think Dutch FI is kinda legit vs China FI too.
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Re: How to play properly vs FI

Post by EU_Commission »

soldier did it yesterday with Dutch FI vs China FI, it worked barely, but he won. should be on his stream

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