native usless?

[Rohbrot]

If u send Cm i can just go back and wait till mm has 1hp and you wont able to age or to send 7rods but we could try this aswell @chronique in one of our games

[chronique]

@Rohbrot Ofc we will!

[iNcog]

I think Natives are fine but ATP makes TPs into unkillable fortresses

CM TC? eh

ATP TP? It scares me

I would suggets to nerf atp hp to ~3k and definitely not buff the nat xp trickle but rather nerf it a bit to Maybe 0,5.

In this game there was no ATP played...

arguably making an atp nerf even more warranted. those things are impossible to take down

[deleted_user0]

Natives went from never-used BS into completely broken op should be nerfed stuff because of some xp trickle (much worse than tp) and some captain who does all in rushes with them (not even making vills after) to counter-strat opponents with SPAIN.

And this is why ATP and natives should be nerfed?
Give me a break....ATP is countered by stealing 2 tps anyway.

[Rohbrot]

Well... its a part of the game and the xp trickle isnt really big i have to make a tp aswell to get shipments but how said above i cant send atp mostly cuz of 100w start or sometimes with 200w start even cuz it delays it so we can change the hp of tps to 3000 doesnt change much for me

[richard]

Natives went from never-used BS into completely broken op should be nerfed stuff because of some xp trickle (much worse than tp) and some captain who does all in rushes with them (not even making vills after) to counter-strat opponents with SPAIN.

And this is why ATP and natives should be nerfed?

You got it. Except you forget to mention he did it WITHOUT using ATP.

[chronique]

@deleted_user2
Tbh porto is better than spain for that kind of build ^^. Also its not the capi fault if top players don't try so mush bullshit bo, like you do with otto revo (who are broken imo). Who said caba was op before playing vs me? If i didn't exist this buf wouldn't be reverted (i have the honesty to put that on the table, regardless of bad it is for my main civ).
Also if i am not wrong, you are ok with removed +2 range to caba, why? because i have win your jap two time in a row? I haven't see any top player used this card in tourney or stream.

I have the feeling that i need to be less honest sometime

@Oliveza plz can u play full port native rush? i want see how good you can be with that bo

[[Armag] diarouga]

Well... its a part of the game and the xp trickle isnt really big i have to make a tp aswell to get shipments but how said above i cant send atp mostly cuz of 100w start or sometimes with 200w start even cuz it delays it so we can change the hp of tps to 3000 doesnt change much for me

The xp trickle is huge wtf. When you go for 2 TPs it's like 1.5 TP early game coz trickle>TP pass.

[Rohbrot]

It doesnt effect that much, im playing them constantly i should know better if i get enough shipments with or without normal tp...
And without normal tp u just lose so only nat tps arent op tbh

[Oliveza]

@deleted_user2
Tbh porto is better than spain for that kind of build ^^. Also its not the capi fault if top players don't try so mush bullshit bo, like you do with otto revo (who are broken imo). Who said caba was op before playing vs me? If i didn't exist this buf wouldn't be reverted (i have the honesty to put that on the table, regardless of bad it is for my main civ).
Also if i am not wrong, you are ok with removed +2 range to caba, why? because i have win your jap two time in a row? I haven't see any top player used this card in tourney or stream.

I have the feeling that i need to be less honest sometime

@Oliveza plz can u play full port native rush? i want see how good you can be with that bo

unfortunately im doing 1civ per week rn and porto has already been played :/
tho i can send you a link to a port atp game , where i played quite well. (for my standarts)

spoiler

https://www.twitch.tv/videos/564340581

[chronique]

The xp trickle is insane. I have play a couple of games on EP8 and the xp trickl buff + spain xp buff mean i can do my semi ff 700w/5vili/700gold/600w and reach age 3 in less than 9 min with a shipement ready, like, no difference with my bo on tp map.

Also your bo with 300w look viable if you can take 2 native tp that mean 2 build production + no need house + more than one tp (and make two tp means 2 *xp building) + no tc radiuce (like this game, zapotk are litteraly next to your oppoenent tc, i have try and you can have 5 zapotek in your opponent base at 4.50).

Its a lot of big big change lol

[Rohbrot]

@chronique dunno about ep8 i said my experience of the games ive played i dont think spain needs a xp buff but only to make nat tps isnt op thats what i think

[Rohbrot]

@chronique dunno about that semi ff cuz i dont think you could hold a good age3 push or a rush maybe u can cuz u know really good hoow to defend

[chronique]

I talk about semi ff just for comparison my standar semi ff (with tp) and with nat tp.

[deleted_user0]

@deleted_user2
Tbh porto is better than spain for that kind of build ^^. Also its not the capi fault if top players don't try so mush bullshit bo, like you do with otto revo (who are broken imo). Who said caba was op before playing vs me? If i didn't exist this buf wouldn't be reverted (i have the honesty to put that on the table, regardless of bad it is for my main civ).
Also if i am not wrong, you are ok with removed +2 range to caba, why? because i have win your jap two time in a row? I haven't see any top player used this card in tourney or stream.

I have the feeling that i need to be less honest sometime

@Oliveza plz can u play full port native rush? i want see how good you can be with that bo

It's only "op" vs japan+china. I didn't want to revert it after losing, my japs suck ass anyway and with walls those wouldn't even do much. Like I said other topic, with caba+xp buff might be too good vs civ like japan and china but caba is still quite shit most of the other mus. Could still keep it imo. Tho +1x inf could be changed to ie. 15% attack or something.

Pros don't use spain in general cause its bad and caba is not used in early fort anyway.

[Garja]

Caba isn't great btw.
On the other hand trickles (resources or xp) are inherently superior to discrete bounties so it might very well be the case that the native xp trickle is too good.

[[Armag] diarouga]

It doesnt effect that much, im playing them constantly i should know better if i get enough shipments with or without normal tp...
And without normal tp u just lose so only nat tps arent op tbh

You need a normal TP sure. But that's because 2 TPs is better than one, you still have an extra TP because of the exp trickle.

[deleted_user0]

It's great but hand cav in fortress is shit in general. Especially when spain can't spam skirms. U get fucked by goon type.

[richard]

I think this game rewards these all in rushes too much

After having tested this playstyle quite a lot, from my perspective this is not the case. You can win games with this, but you are far away from being rewarded much, if you play such a build. You put yourself into a pretty disadvantaguous position if you choose such a build and have to work quite a lot all game long till you finally defeat your opponent, while he just auto-wins after some time if you dont make enough happen. And it is not easy to make enough happen in the opponents tc-LOS because he sees everything there while you dont know what is going on outside the LOS-16 of your units. Also minutemen are very strong. They have 26 attack, which means like shipping an additional 6 veteran musket card for 150f+150g, on top of your normal card. The attacker as opposed to this, cant use minutemen on his own for his attack.

[flontier]

its also op vs russia, brits, china, azzy etc... its just that most of the time the game is already win or lose before spain have a decent rods/lancers mass to make caba effective but when you have the situation to send the card the value you gain is just too much, i mean you're running aways from your opponent musq mass and after you send the card your opponent is now running away from your lancers...
But again, so few people play spain so almost no one has experienced playing against that.

[chronique]

It's only "op" vs japan+china. I didn't want to revert it after losing, my japs suck ass anyway and with walls those wouldn't even do much. Like I said other topic, with caba+xp buff might be too good vs civ like japan and china but caba is still quite shit most of the other mus. Could still keep it imo. Tho +1x inf could be changed to ie. 15% attack or something.

Pros don't use spain in general cause its bad and caba is not used in early fort anyway.

Quite agree

Still thinking than xp trickl + no tc radius can be broken in some situation.

[Rohbrot]

It doesnt effect that much, im playing them constantly i should know better if i get enough shipments with or without normal tp...
And without normal tp u just lose so only nat tps arent op tbh

You need a normal TP sure. But that's because 2 TPs is better than one, you still have an extra TP because of the exp trickle.

Yeah, thats what i mean the nat tp itself isnt enough to get enough xp for shipments it depends much on map tbh on only nat maps when you get all tps its really good but u need to use the nat aswell and thats the issue u dont have on evey map good nats what is good but i still think we dont have all nats of tad and nilla used on esoc maps what we could change imo

[zoom]

The xp trickle is insane. I have play a couple of games on EP8 and the xp trickl buff + spain xp buff mean i can do my semi ff 700w/5vili/700gold/600w and reach age 3 in less than 9 min with a shipement ready, like, no difference with my bo on tp map.

Also your bo with 300w look viable if you can take 2 native tp that mean 2 build production + no need house + more than one tp (and make two tp means 2 *xp building) + no tc radiuce (like this game, zapotk are litteraly next to your oppoenent tc, i have try and you can have 5 zapotek in your opponent base at 4.50).

Its a lot of big big change lol

The trickle is a big change, yes. The 1/7 tweak is a slight one, which is being accompanied by an ATP nerf. Now that I'm keeping the Rodelero nerf solely to make players happier, I will also be decreasing the buff to the shipment bonus – not to mention, Lancers don't risk being broken anymore.

I will be monitoring player behavior and feedback closely, post-release, too, and act accordingly.

[zoom]

Caba isn't great btw.
On the other hand trickles (resources or xp) are inherently superior to discrete bounties so it might very well be the case that the native xp trickle is too good.

They are indeed. It's a good thing that it'll remain at least 1/3 worse, then.

[Garja]

Sure, it would be better if they were 100% worse tho.