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Switzerland ChewSick
Crossbow
Posts: 41
ESO: chusik
Location: Switzerland

17 Jul 2018, 02:44

Hello people, as some of you might know, Ottomans are my favorite civ in AoE3. It's late at night and what else can I do?

I recently rewatched some Tournament finals of the past and was very upset when i saw people play Ottomans as a counter to Spanish FF, massing Janissary with the well known "700f 600f 5jan 3huss" all in build. I'm going to explain why this build is trash and you should no longer do it, and follow mine :hehe:

stats to consider doing the "old" 700f 600f 5jan 3huss build:

1 TP, no Market, 2 Barracks.
Timeline:
6:10 20 Janissaries produced
6:25 25 Janissaries produced (5 Jan from HC included)
further production is hard because you don't have eco supporting you. You might get batches of 4-6 Jans out.


It's pretty obvious why this build isn't what you actually wanna be doing, because of how much your economy suffers. Basically when your army dies, game is over. I want to guide you throw how to produce 30 Janissaries in 6:25 and have an actual economy supporting you!

I have recorded the game against AI, you can watch it. But for those who like reading im going to write it down.

HC Shipments order:
3 vill -> 700w -> 700f -> 5jan -> etc.

Note:
- BO can be done with any starting crates, you might not get out 30 at 6:25 though if you start with less crates or don't find any treasures (maybe 27-29)
- I have taken 50 gold and 80 food treasures which i think is legit for a regular game.
- Game played on ESOC-Patch, map High Plains

BO:

AGE I (HC Shipment 3 Vill):

Build a TP and a house and age up with 400 wood asap. Simple.



TRANSITION:

Gather 200 wood and build a 2nd TP, move 2 settlers forward (hide them if possible). Put 2-4 Settlers on coin, to be able to produce Jans, rest on food.



AGE II (HC Shipments 700w 700f 5jan):

After you hit age 2, first build a Barracks and then upgrade stage coach from your 400 age-up wood.
When 700 wood arrives, you build another Barracks, a 3rd TP and 3 houses. Note: If map doesn't offer a third TP or you want to add Hussar you can get a stable or market up, etc.
When Stage Coach is upgraded immediately switch them to coin and later to food or wood, whatever you need.

Ding ding, victory is yours.

Additional Infos/Advice:
- Put 3-4 Settlers on your 700 food crates, you don't wanna run out of food when massing Jans
- When playing against Spanish ff, you shouldn't run in 10 by 10, mass up to at least 20, then attack. Get down Tower first, then TC.
- Note: in my replay i could only mass 28 Janissaries at 6:22, with better macro however it would be 30. I didn't want to record again though.
- why does it work although you build your 2nd rax later? because you build a 2nd TP during transition, you immediately have 2 Shipments ready after age up and get your 5 Janissary shipment approx. 30 seconds before you'd get them with the 700f-600f build.

Thanks for reading, looking forward to reactions / questions / discussion.

Edit: Referring to this game (LordRaphael vs _H2o):
Attachments
[EP5 SP] Chusik[OT] vs Friedrich der Große[GE] - ESOC High Plains.age3yrec
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India Ashvin
Howdah
Posts: 1539
ESO: Octanium

17 Jul 2018, 03:26

:love: :love: :love:
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Kiribati SirCallen
Gendarme
Posts: 6117

17 Jul 2018, 03:41

Nice.
"The desire for intimacy has biological roots and, in the great majority of people, persists from birth until death."
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Greece Googol
Howdah
Posts: 1118
ESO: Butifle
Location: Prague

17 Jul 2018, 04:07

@iamturk thoughts?
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No Flag ovi12
Jaeger
Posts: 4032

17 Jul 2018, 05:34

+1 Very nice! Is there any other MU where you would do this build? Maybe China, Sioux, India?
last time i cryed was because i stood on Lego
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Switzerland ChewSick
Crossbow
Posts: 41
ESO: chusik
Location: Switzerland

17 Jul 2018, 05:50

ovi12 wrote:+1 Very nice! Is there any other MU where you would do this build? Maybe China, Sioux, India?


This Build is actually the exact same as the Jan+abus build, just with 700w+700f (Jan+abus would be 700w 700g).

Jan/abus build can be done in many matchups.

Pure Jan is strong against straight ff's. India and Dutch both have Skirm age2, don't do that against them. China, Spanish or even Germans/Otto (if ff) should work. I don't know Sioux too well so I can't tell.
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No Flag umeu
Gendarme
Posts: 8193

17 Jul 2018, 06:44

jan abus is still 3 tp

and iirc the 700600f or 700c700f bo should have 30 jans by 6:00ish. Those 20-30 sec can mean the difference between win or loss. You're right that you should wait for 20 and not go in 10/10 unless it's a map with shit hunts. however, i think it should be said that the first jans should go siege tp asap if its exposed
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Switzerland ChewSick
Crossbow
Posts: 41
ESO: chusik
Location: Switzerland

17 Jul 2018, 10:23

umeu wrote:jan abus is still 3 tp

and iirc the 700600f or 700c700f bo should have 30 jans by 6:00ish. Those 20-30 sec can mean the difference between win or loss. You're right that you should wait for 20 and not go in 10/10 unless it's a map with shit hunts. however, i think it should be said that the first jans should go siege tp asap if its exposed


I will edit it, you are right.
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Great Britain Hazza54321
Jaeger
Posts: 4430

17 Jul 2018, 11:00

finally a high level guide with a high level strat
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Finland somppukunkku
Howdah
Donator 02
Posts: 1721

17 Jul 2018, 11:36

I'd say you may want to go with 10 jans to start shooting shit before spain is going age 3. That case 700f is better for full batches. But ye, taking stage gives you actual some eco. Also, jans are now cheaper than in rapha game which makes about 2 jan difference.
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When I win, it's with homo, illegal and wrong strats.
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United States of America _H2O
ESOC Business Team
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20 Jul 2018, 00:47

Gotta love theory crafting how to make only one unit and right click on your opponent with maximal precision.
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Brazil macacoalbino
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20 Jul 2018, 01:42

Says the guy who did a full video explaining how to best make full Coyote in azzy mirror ^^
"Anything can happen. Just throw all of your points on the underdog (...). They are looking more like overdogs this tournament. Haha. A joke." - GS

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India rsy
Howdah
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ESO: Rsy
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GameRanger Id: 665696

20 Jul 2018, 02:56

Damn got his ass
No Flag umeu
Gendarme
Posts: 8193

20 Jul 2018, 05:19

_H2O wrote:Gotta love theory crafting how to make only one unit and right click on your opponent with maximal precision.


if you had paid a bit more attention during Otto 101 class, you wouldn't have lost to Raging Rapesomeass that tourney.

:sad:
No Flag almalek
Musketeer
Posts: 53

20 Jul 2018, 05:34

macacoalbino wrote:Says the guy who did a full video explaining how to best make full Coyote in azzy mirror ^^

is bad?
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France [Armag] diarouga
Gendarme
Posts: 6827
Location: France

20 Jul 2018, 06:46

almalek wrote:
macacoalbino wrote:Says the guy who did a full video explaining how to best make full Coyote in azzy mirror ^^

is bad?

Yes, making full coyote in azzy mirror is bad but very few people know what's the best option.
"Everyone knows that blowing infantry to shreds with heavy cannons is the most satisfying way to win." Boneng
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Italy Garja
ESOC Maps Team
Donator 02
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ESO: Garja

20 Jul 2018, 10:34

Everyone knows you have to make warrior priests too :chinese:
Turkey iamturk
Skirmisher
Posts: 112
ESO: iamturk
Location: TR

20 Jul 2018, 12:38

Googol wrote:@iamturk thoughts?


You should ask SILAHTAR.
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Greece Googol
Howdah
Posts: 1118
ESO: Butifle
Location: Prague

20 Jul 2018, 12:40

iamturk wrote:
Googol wrote:@iamturk thoughts?


You should ask SILAHTAR.


The janissary recruiter oh god, I hope he doesn't recruit me aswell when I'll be asking.
Cyprus Snuden
Jaeger
Posts: 2030
ESO: Snuden
Location: ESOC Crypto Corner!

20 Jul 2018, 13:37

Noted.
36: This herd, was not herded correctly towards his town center
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No Flag Zutazuta
Dragoon
zuta
Posts: 387

20 Jul 2018, 15:46

_H2O wrote:Gotta love theory crafting how to make only one unit and right click on your opponent with maximal precision.


Come on man, we all know 3 huss will make an appearance at some point. Stop being so narrow minded...
No Flag almalek
Musketeer
Posts: 53

20 Jul 2018, 17:12

[Armag] diarouga wrote:
almalek wrote:
macacoalbino wrote:Says the guy who did a full video explaining how to best make full Coyote in azzy mirror ^^

is bad?

Yes, making full coyote in azzy mirror is bad but very few people know what's the best option.

ok
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Uzbekistan DjinnOfSorrow
Skirmisher
Posts: 188
ESO: WS6AR
Location: USA

20 Jul 2018, 18:10

A few years ago I was massing jans but I would leave all my vils on food. Use the 400 wood for a rax and 2 houses. Ship 700 gold/700 wood/600 gold/600 wood with 2 tp from age 1. It was never difficult to mass a lot of jans quickly kind of a pump fake so my opponent would think im ffing when he saw my first crate. But he was also use to me ffing as most nations, quite the shock for him when the horde rolled in right at 7.30 when he was trying to age up
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Uzbekistan DjinnOfSorrow
Skirmisher
Posts: 188
ESO: WS6AR
Location: USA

21 Jul 2018, 00:46

[Armag] diarouga wrote:
almalek wrote:
macacoalbino wrote:Says the guy who did a full video explaining how to best make full Coyote in azzy mirror ^^

is bad?

Yes, making full coyote in azzy mirror is bad but very few people know what's the best option.


I'm not an aztec player but I would say best option is don't play mirrors. Outside of that just purely spamming one unit Id assume a spearman rush.
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France [Armag] diarouga
Gendarme
Posts: 6827
Location: France

21 Jul 2018, 05:51

DjinnOfSorrow wrote:
[Armag] diarouga wrote:
Show hidden quotes

Yes, making full coyote in azzy mirror is bad but very few people know what's the best option.


I'm not an aztec player but I would say best option is don't play mirrors. Outside of that just purely spamming one unit Id assume a spearman rush.

No. Aztec mirror played correctly is actually one of the most interesting mirrors.
"Everyone knows that blowing infantry to shreds with heavy cannons is the most satisfying way to win." Boneng

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