french naked ff against spanish ff

[agrondergermane]

thx @P i k i l i c and @Diarouga for the tips how to play against the spanish ff with france. it worked wonderful against players who are atm def better than me (pr and elo wise). the big fight happened very early but i had best comp ive ever had against the spanish cannon push. 10 musks startet to train them in transition to age 3 and 10-15 goons and 2 cannons.

[Kaiserklein]

Go 4 cdbs 700w it's the real deal, don't make musks they're bad goons are better

[agrondergermane]

Go 4 cdbs 700w it's the real deal, don't make musks they're bad goons are better

that was exactly my bo, but the musks in transition to age 3 were just to bodyblock the cannons and it worked fine against his pikes.

[agrondergermane]

@Kaiserklein kleine verbesserung: ... in meinen Armen zu halten heißt es , aber wenns um die liebe geht ist rechschreibung ja auch scheißegal

[milku3459]

The one and only time I piroed, the French guy got up first.

[fei123456]

hey, you only have 40 seconds "in transition" so how do you have 10 musks?

[fei123456]

4cdb-700w, age up FAST with 1-2 TPs.
However, I still prefer to kill the front tower first. With that tower spain's early timing becomes too fast to hold.

[Lukas_L99]

Go 4 cdbs 700w it's the real deal, don't make musks they're bad goons are better

that was exactly my bo, but the musks in transition to age 3 were just to bodyblock the cannons and it worked fine against his pikes.

Body blocking cannons with infantry
I think I know what you mean but goons are just really good vs spain cause they don't have skirm shipments.

@Kaiserklein kleine verbesserung: ... in meinen Armen zu halten und spühren heißt es, aber wenns um die liebe geht ist rechschreibung ja auch scheißegal

It's "spüren" btw

[pecelot]

Go 4 cdbs 700w it's the real deal, don't make musks they're bad goons are better

that was exactly my bo, but the musks in transition to age 3 were just to bodyblock the cannons and it worked fine against his pikes.

Body blocking cannons with infantry
I think I know what you mean but goons are just really good vs spain cause they don't have skirm shipments.

what about pikes and rods?

[Lukas_L99]

Body blocking cannons with infantry
I think I know what you mean but goons are just really good vs spain cause they don't have skirm shipments.

what about pikes and rods?

Well you got your own 2 falc shipment+skirm shipments and can hit and run or body block with cdb, so many options xd

[Kaiserklein]

@Kaiserklein kleine verbesserung: ... in meinen Armen zu halten und spühren heißt es, aber wenns um die liebe geht ist rechschreibung ja auch scheißegal

I don't speak german bro

[P i k i l i c]

I think musks are better when your micro is not very good, rods are a real pain do deal with and if your goons are catched by rods they die very fast to rods and pikes

[pecelot]

You have to have some units body-blocking your cannons, you can't really kite that much with goons with rods and pikes

[agrondergermane]

hey, you only have 40 seconds "in transition" so how do you have 10 musks?

i just started training in transition.

[agrondergermane]

Go 4 cdbs 700w it's the real deal, don't make musks they're bad goons are better

that was exactly my bo, but the musks in transition to age 3 were just to bodyblock the cannons and it worked fine against his pikes.

Body blocking cannons with infantry
I think I know what you mean but goons are just really good vs spain cause they don't have skirm shipments.

@Kaiserklein kleine verbesserung: ... in meinen Armen zu halten und spühren heißt es, aber wenns um die liebe geht ist rechschreibung ja auch scheißegal

It's "spüren" btw

hahaha, ja du hast recht. ich meine natürlich den gegner von meinen falcs fernzuhalten

[lemmings121]

You have to have some units body-blocking your cannons, you can't really kite that much with goons with rods and pikes

True, even tho musks arent the ideal age3 unit, its a good unit to have against spain, who will usually have a lancers huss pik rod composition on first push, all units countered by musks. (you just have to be carefull with canons)

[fei123456]

You have to have some units body-blocking your cannons, you can't really kite that much with goons with rods and pikes

True, even tho musks arent the ideal age3 unit, its a good unit to have against spain, who will usually have a lancers huss pik rod composition on first push, all units countered by musks. (you just have to be carefull with canons)

you need to have 20+ musks to counter them. if you have only about 10 of them, they don't counter anything.
imo HALBEDIERS are more useful in that situation.

[agrondergermane]

You have to have some units body-blocking your cannons, you can't really kite that much with goons with rods and pikes

True, even tho musks arent the ideal age3 unit, its a good unit to have against spain, who will usually have a lancers huss pik rod composition on first push, all units countered by musks. (you just have to be carefull with canons)

you need to have 20+ musks to counter them. if you have only about 10 of them, they don't counter anything.
imo HALBEDIERS are more useful in that situation.

u have cannon and goons shooting the same time at spanish inf and maybe mm+cdb when ur fighting in ur base...

[Kaiserklein]

You have to have some units body-blocking your cannons, you can't really kite that much with goons with rods and pikes

No, you only want your falcs to trade with spain's falcs. So if you don't fail you should just trade falcs, and then with goon skirms vs rod pikes skirms etc you're completely fine. And if he tries to trade his infantry for your falcs (because you can't block vs melee units) he will lose because it's a bad trade.

[fei123456]

spain have 4+4+5 cav, and lancer rod combo is a threat to goon skirm. so you'll need halberdier sometimes to counter this melee combo.

[Kaiserklein]

Oh yeah I forgot about halbs. I actually train them everygame vs spain. Spain's only counter to halbs is ofc their own halbs from church card. But if you scout a church you just send church card yourself as france and send the grens ! They do an amazing job against halbs.

[momuuu]

I know youre being sarcastic but against rod lancer some sort of heavy infantry as buffer is extremely useful. I honestly think halbs are pretty underrated against some compositions, that 25 damage and great hp pool is okay, and with rods in the mix they can do better a better job than ranged cav.

[Kaiserklein]

No they just suck so hard. Goons are simply better, it's not even situational. And even if you want HI to tank, you make musks, because you can start training them in transition (or even do a semi ff) and they're just a better unit : much cheaper, a ranged attack, more melee resist, almost same hp, same dps against cav... Only thing is that you need to upgrade them + they have less attack in melee mode vs infantry but it's obviously still a better unit.

[momuuu]

No they just suck so hard. Goons are simply better, it's not even situational. And even if you want HI to tank, you make musks, because you can start training them in transition (or even do a semi ff) and they're just a better unit : much cheaper, a ranged attack, more melee resist, almost same hp, same dps against cav... Only thing is that you need to upgrade them + they have less attack in melee mode vs infantry but it's obviously still a better unit.

Dutch aint have no musks :(

I've been making 10 halbs against ports as Dutch actually and the result has positively amazed me. They're great against mams because mams have that 40% RR and the siege potential is nice versus the portuguese town centers. Against rod lancer halbs are pretty good too, although outshined by musketeers I think. Might even be reasonably close.

[Kaiserklein]

But we were talking about france not dutch ?

Then it's a lot about micro, your opponent should never let you attack his mams with your halbs. And if you want to block the mams then make huss because they tank more and they have decent dps, and are actually useful against other kind of units than heavy cav.
Vs spain, I feel like dutch should anyway start full ruyters or almost, so you don't really need to block the melee units, if you kite decently. Or then you play it age 2 and halbs don't exist