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China fei123456
Jaeger
Posts: 2503
ESO: fei123456
Location: Alderaan

14 Jul 2017, 08:50

kc was the leader of NT clan months ago. He's a talented aoe3 player, with his good understandings of basic stats, and imaginative build orders. We call him "goodspeed beta version"; and he deserves this title.
However he finds his life stuck in trouble after a stormy night with a girl, and now he has to quit aoe3 for a while to raise his family.
He can remember every unit stats in aoe3, but he forgot condoms. Ironic. Still, he leaves many useful strategies to us.
(These below are his own words, and I'm just a translator.)

kc build 1: japan FI (RE patch only)
A friend asks me "how can I improve myself if I have poor micro?", and I answered, "if you're not a major yet, just play OP civs and lame builds, such as india 10/10, ottoman ff, japan fi, etc."
Then I realized that I was playing japan fi 1 year ago when I was only a captain (maybe I'm still a captain now?), and I watched some recs of buakaw. I was confused then: "how can a player with such poor micro and bad macro and awful mechanics be a brigadier? and beat top players like vishnu_india?"
And I started playing japan fi, with kami-600w-600g, 1000w 3TCs then age 4. I even beat some lamers with this on ESO, but still lost badly to wookl. So I turned into standard play (shrine boom) later.

I started pracitising japan FI again recently, and improved this build in some degree: the use of besteiros, build placement, age 4 shipment orders, and a faster age up without 3TCs.
Risk: it's an obvious bug (1600xp with shogunate, which should be 600xp). But it's inevitable in RE: you can't age up with buddha anyway. And a bug at around 12-13 minutes are not game-determine. It's just like age 3 mameluke/li'l bombards of asian civs: what should I do if I build a monastery and are not allowed to train them? If you still think getting this 1600xp is shameless, just skip this guide and play your EP :smile:

Deck:
Cards with a star is a must.
Age 1: *kami *cm
Age 2: *600w *600g *300e *orchard rickshaw 4v 5ashi 5yumi yumi atk
Age 3: *intervention *1000w 7v 1000g 5naginata 9yumi 8ashi ashi/yumi upgrade
Age 4: *16yumi *14ashi *4FA *tokugawa 8naginata 7yabusame
(You can have ship upgrades and mortar range on water maps, but japan land FI>water play anyway.) (See tenkokugen vs fard game.)

Build order:
The "ideal" build is kami 600w 600g 7v 7v age 4. But it's generally impossible, and you need to hold different kind of pressures.

How to defend:
1. Building placement. Put your building together as a wall. But in some situations (vs iro rush) you need to build extra walls to completely stop him.
2. Three key shipments: cm, 300e(7 besteiro), intervention(11 besteiro)
CM card is useful against sepoy/jan/strelet/puma mace/xbow pike rush, and you can try to snare him with 4 sentry, and destroy him with 11+4 irregular.
3. Castles. TC+castle=cm card, and with a castle you can send shipment even if your TC is down. 2 Castles+TC beats any age 2 push, and you can upgrade your 8 flaming arrows: what a smart choice.
4. Speed always wins. 12 min FI is quite different from 16 min FI. Improve your macro, build wonders with 8v, cut off vil production in some cases, and don't overboom.

Scout and counter:
Always mind your building placement. With good building placement you can easily hold musk+huss with yumi/besteiro, without any extra investment.
You need to scout well, as japan is a slow civ.
Your opponent will

1. Early colo rush
CM card can hold most of them (except iro). You can try to call 4 sentry and 11+4 irregular at a certain point to destroy his army, and have a free win.

2. Late colo timing
Your opponent may go for a timing, or switch from rush to timing after you send CM. You can build 1-2 castles to hold this. 600w for 2 castles is great against vishnu_india build, and push back with intervention+mm.
300e 7 besteiro and 6 yumi from pavilion and castle may work too.
(Age 3 besteiro is sepoy with 16 range! Though they can't beat cav in melee. So just kite your enemy, and kill his cav first.)
You need good scouting in these games. If you sacrifice your eco to build castles, send besteiros etc, while your opponent goes semiff instead of a colonial timing, you'll be in an awkward situation. But if he pushes, you hold it, you win.
Build pavilion with 8v is important too, and put the wonder in a safety place. It's not wise to build wonder with 0v, and give your enemy an extra 1min to mass units.

3. FF/SFF and 2 cannons
Just go age 4, kami 600w 600g.
Many european civs will go goon/skirm/2 cannon combo. Goon/skirm can't siege at all, and 2 cannon is not a big threat. He will raid your vils with skirms, and you can hold with besteiros/yumi. Build castles if he tries to kill your TC. You only need to survive to age 4, and 4 flaming arrow with age 4 besteiro/shogun tokugawa can kill his cannons easily. But don't let your daimyo/shogun die.
You don't need to save shipments to age 4, if your opponent is not going age 4 too. Upgrade your yumi (or ashi) after you start building age 4 wonder.
Vs ottoman FF mameluke: wall completely to stop his 5 mames, and send 14 ashi twice. If he send 2 cannons, go age 4, kite his jans with besteiro/yumi (use separate mode). Always build age 4 wonder with 8 vils (you can build it somewhere outside, if you can't build it in base with walls).
Vs spain FF: send cm card, build castles, send intervention. Spain FF is similar to a colonial timing push, so you can build 2nd/3rd TC if he siege your outside buildings, and age up later. Spain only have 4+3 lancers, and he can't deal with your besteiros after his lancers die. And TC with cm can one shot a pike.

4. FI/revolt
Only china FI and otto/spain revolt are challenges to us.
Vs revolt: ashi, 8 flaming arrows, tokugawa. You can even train some flaming arrows, and you can win np if you can kill his heavy cannons.
Vs old han reform: a harder MU. Wookl suggests an early push with ashi/flaming arrow, and defeat china before he reforms (japan has faster shipments). If you send 7v7v you can try to play defensive, go naginata/yumi/yabusame. Old han is not a big threat to us, while endless flying crows are annoying.
Vs port FI: yumi/yabusame free win. Don't go ashi.

Tips
1. Shrines produce gold, vills on berries. Vills on gold mine are easily to raid (if your mine is far away from TC), and food upgrades in market are cheaper.
2. Don't overcommit. Japan FI is not just a scary push with shipments. You have constant vill production, 10+ shrines, and insane age 4 units, so you can just boom for a while, and push until you upgrades your units to honored (not for china FI).
3. Unit combo. You can send tokugawa first, train clubs with him, and train yumi. This is the best "xbow pike" combo, and can beat anything except cannons. You can also go ashi raiding/base trade if your opponent is a cavalry civ. Ashi/flaming arrow is great too, as you only need 250w250g to upgrade your flaming arrows.
4. 500f/w/g tech of shrines is good. It's about 1 factory in efficiency. You can also try to raid with ashi, and boom with 3 TCs.
5. Protect your shogun/daimyo. Their aura are insane with units' current stats (not base stats). If they die, revive them asap.

kc build 2: japan golden pavilion start vs british
Toshogu shrine can be count as 4 shrines/3 vills. You can't outboom british with this 3v, and you can't train besteiros in early age 2.
The bonus attack can help your yumis beat longbows. 3 yumi>200exp, and 15% atk>3 vils.
Japan usually builds toshogu in age 2 because:
1. Japan have better late age 2 units than most other civs even without golden pavilion;
2. You need to go age 3 in some MUs.
But in most cases you have to play age 2 vs british, and upgraded musks/longbow are hard to deal with. So age 2 pavilion is better.

kc build 3: alternative india rush
Age up 14p (not 10/10 this time!), buld agra with 3-4 vils. Send 600g-10 tiger claws, and push with around 15 sepoy/10 tiger claw/6 minutemen (so you need to chop for a consulate) at 7:00.
It's similar to the popular "consulate rush" (sepoy+redcoat), but with better unit composition (musk cav), and are hard to scout (you don't need to build a consulate during transition). You can also send 4 sowar 5 sepoy 300e (3 hussar) for constant pressure after that.

kc build 4: iroquois hammer build vs otto revolt
I used to struggle against otto revolt: It's hard to kill his TC with some tomahawk and mantlet, and it's even harder to hold a giant revolt army and 2 bombards.
But the siege hammer (what's its real name? I forgot it lol) changes everything! A hammer=5 pikemen in sieging buildings.
You need to put the 1000g shipment (6 hammer 5 mantlet) in your deck, and 4 hammer card. Ofc this deck is just used vs otto/spain.
Build order: FF, wise women-messenger, send 600g-400f/w/g-1000g hammer/mantlet. Train musket riders, and push, siege, kill his TC, kill his fort! (but you'd better kill his TC instead of fort first).
I beat ottoman 3 tower revolt on texas, fort revolt on new england/yellow river, very easily. And in another game i lost 4 hammers to his spahi, but still win.

kc build 5/6: brit/japan bo against FF civs
Brit: build a TP asap (300w start is great, but 200w start is still available). 3v-virginia company-700w-700g-600w. Put your vills on food/gold after 700w arrives. you can reach 130 pop after 700w while clicking age-up button, and have 200 pop/military buildings/amalgamation with 600w.
Japan: kami-600w-(4v)-600g, go age 3, send 300e. Don't train besteiros! After 300e arrives, ally with dutch, and train 6 musket 7 ruyter combo (800e). Consulate ruyter is far stronger than dutch ruyter (a bug maybe?), and you get two age 3 shipments (6 vet musket+7 vet dragoon) with a 300e shipment only.
5% attack of japan ally is not that important in age 3 anyway.
India Ashvin
Retired Contributor
Posts: 2114
ESO: Octanium

14 Jul 2017, 08:53

what's vishnu_india? strat? player?
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China fei123456
Jaeger
Posts: 2503
ESO: fei123456
Location: Alderaan

14 Jul 2017, 08:57

Ashvin wrote:what's vishnu_india? strat? player?

A famous/imfamous chinese player.
He's famous because he reached elo2700+ No.1 with india 10/10 tiger claw rush a few years ago. So we call his 10/10 5 sepoy-(4sowar)-600g-tiger claw "vishnu_india build".
He's infamous because he makes many chinese players think "india is the 1st lame civ, india is the best rush civ, india 11/10 is the standard build, while 14p age up is for fun" for a long time. And i have to struggle with endless sepoy rush, sepoy rush, sepoy rush...
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India _RDX_
Lancer
Posts: 669
ESO: _RDX_

14 Jul 2017, 12:45

Well, most of them thought he was an actual Indian, but then they recognised that he is Chinese, I always had the doubt that how he came up with the name 'Vishnu'.

Btw nice write up, Some of them are extraordinary.
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Tuvalu gibson
Gendarme
Posts: 9353
Location: USA

14 Jul 2017, 12:53

Poor guy forgot condom :(
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European Union Asateo
Dragoon
Posts: 426
ESO: Asateo
Location: Belgium

14 Jul 2017, 13:34

Thx will try.

It's funny how you get rusted in build.
For example: golden pavilon age 2. In my mind "what the heck, that's age 3". :ohmy:
Thx for sharing :flowers:
To see a world in a grain of saind, A heaven in a wild flower
Hold infinity in the palm of you hand, And eternity in an hour
- William Blake, Auguries of Innocence
No Flag tedere12
Jaeger
Posts: 3436

17 Aug 2017, 20:27

vishnu_india is spider_xiande I think
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Poland pecelot
Retired Contributor
Donator 03
Posts: 10001
ESO: Pezet
Location: Poland

18 Aug 2017, 21:07

build 4: it's called a ram @fei123456 :!:

I'll add it to the Strategy Wall :flowers:
Ars longa, vita brevis :unsure:
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Turkey Mameluke
Dragoon
Posts: 471
ESO: Mameluké
Location: Gym

18 Aug 2017, 21:14

pecelot wrote:build 4: it's called a ram @fei123456 :!:

I'll add it to the Strategy Wall :flowers:

thanks for letting us know.
If you see any mistakes in my grammar/vocabulary or whatever, please correct me. I really appreciate it :!: :flowers:
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New Zealand JakeyBoyTH
Howdah
Posts: 1744
ESO: Ex-Contributor
Location: New Zealand

18 Aug 2017, 21:33

Mameluke wrote:
pecelot wrote:build 4: it's called a ram @fei123456 :!:

I'll add it to the Strategy Wall :flowers:

thanks for letting us know.

ego post
Advanced Wonders suck

- Aizamk

Ugh Advanced Wonders suck

- Aizamk
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Kiribati SirCallen
Gendarme
Posts: 8675
ESO: SirCallen
Location: Midwest best west

18 Aug 2017, 22:50

"Nice Smurf" :D
and the giving famishes the craving
sweet thames, run softly, til I end my song

The shepherd's staff's tantalus around my neck

please stop eating :food:
No Flag Imperial Noob
Lancer
Posts: 603
Location: dormant

18 Aug 2017, 23:01

JakeyBoyTH wrote:
Mameluke wrote:
pecelot wrote:build 4: it's called a ram @fei123456 :!:

I'll add it to the Strategy Wall :flowers:

thanks for letting us know.

ego post


2
attention.....
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No Flag zym604
Crossbow
Posts: 7

17 Sep 2017, 13:47

fei123456 wrote:He can remember every unit stats in aoe3, but he forgot condoms. Ironic.

Sad!
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Portugal Kazamkikaz
Dragoon
Posts: 303
ESO: Kazamkikaz
Location: Braga

04 Jan 2018, 21:17

i saw some youtube videos where the opponent start renegado + crossbowman from consulate with Japan then transition to yuimi or ashigaru very fast, i would like to see a strategie on the strategie wall section about this, if any one knows how to do this strategie plz write a BO
My Youtube channel

"If you can't win the fight
don't take the fight"-Aizamk 2016
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Russia yurashic
Howdah
Posts: 1168
ESO: Yurashic
Location: Russia

05 Jan 2018, 01:06

Kazamkikaz wrote:i saw some youtube videos where the opponent start renegado + crossbowman from consulate with Japan then transition to yuimi or ashigaru very fast, i would like to see a strategie on the strategie wall section about this, if any one knows how to do this strategie plz write a BO


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_YlOq4F_lRI

Watch the first game.
Germany CHISMO
Crossbow
Posts: 4
ESO: CHISMO

16 Jan 2020, 22:53

What the hell is a CM card?
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United States of America HeadKilla
Tournament Admin
The Big Game Hunter - Bronze ElephantDonator Best
Posts: 976
ESO: Headkilla
Location: Minnesota

16 Jan 2020, 23:41

CHISMO wrote:What the hell is a CM card?

Colonial Militia probably
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Holy See bepsi
Musketeer
Posts: 92

17 Jan 2020, 14:20

@fei123456

Nice write-up. These builds sounds quite interesting. Do you by chance have any recs of them played out in practice?

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