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[Troll Build] Aizamk's Japan: Ronin, and Ninja FF [Improved]

Posted: 14 Feb 2018, 02:40
by princeofcarthage
First of all thanks to @Aizamk for coming up with such troll strategies which makes us go "wow" and inspire us to play non-standard.

Few Notes:

1) You need to have extremely good unit control (miss clicks can't be afforded).
2) You should know exactly how units work and what each unit is capable of -> when to take fights, should you call mm or not? use villagers, holding pressure under TC etc.
3) This is a troll build and success depends a lot on knowing what your opponent is up-to and keeping what you are doing a secret for as long as possible.
4) Success rate grows exponentially if you can lure your opponent under your TC and time units perfectly for the initial attack.

Strategy:

Age 1:

1) 300 Wood start: Gather 25 wood. Make consulate and one shrine.
200 Wood start: Gather 125 wood. Make consulate and one shrine.

2) Ally with Spanish consulate asap.

3) 1st shipment: 2 villagers.

Regardless of wood start you should reach about 800 f when you have approx. 16 villagers including 2 from shipment. Idle TC a bit if needed. Age up using shogunate.
Note: It is must that you ally with Spain and age up with shogunate.

Transition from age 1 -> age 2:

1) 2nd shipment: Good faith agreements.

Leave couple villagers on wood to gather wood for your 2nd shrine.
Build it asap and move villagers back to f. Keep making villagers.

Age 2:

1) 3rd and 4th shipment 600 g. Note: Send your 4th shipment after doing pt. 3).
2) 5th shipment: 300 export. Note: Your 5th shipment may or may not arrive before you start aging up.
3) As soon as you have 121 export, research "merchant marine" from consulate.

Age up with Toshogu shrine.
Note:It is must that you age up Toshogu shrine.

Transition from age 2 -> age 3:

Leave 5-6 on food and rest on wood, shrines on wood. Build as many shrines as possible.

Age 3:

1) Research Bullionism from consulate.
2) 6th shipment: 1000 g.
3) 7th shipment: 5 Ronin.
4) 8th shipment: 1000 g.
5) 9th shipment: 12 Ninja/5 Ronin.

Improvise from here as needed.

Must have cards in deck:
Age 1: 2 villagers, good faith agreements.
Age 2: 600 g, 300 export.
Age 3: 1000 g, 5 Ronin, 12 Ninja.

Rest cards you can select depending on your game style. However I will suggest some cards which I think are important.

Suggested cards:
Age 1: Heavenly Kami.
Age 2: 4 villagers, 600 w, 5 Ashigaru musketeers, 5 Yumi archers, Yumi archer attack, Daimyo.
Age 3: 7 villagers, 1000 w, 2 Flaming arrows, Way of the bow, 8 Ashigaru musketeers, 9 Yumi archers, Ashigaru musketeer attack.
Age 4: 16, Yumi archers, 14 Ashigaru musketeer, 4 Flaming arrows, Shogun.

Link to original Aizamk game: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WbwwW4Z3vJw&t=3s

Note:With my mediocre macro I was still able to achieve original timings within a range of +- 10 seconds, with a much better backup economy.

FAQ:

1) How do you get so many shipments within such short time?
Ans: Shogunate upon age up gives 400 xp. Bullionism tech gives 1500 xp.

2) Why are these wonders must and other's not viable?
Ans: Shogunate as age 2 wonder is must for getting enough xp to get needed shipments. In original build order Toshogu shrine was needed in age 3 to have enough pop space for Ronins. However, using this build order it might be possible to replace to Golden pavilion for better military or wonder of your choice. I would suggest Golden pavilion if you want to replace.

3) Can I play this in rated games?
Ans: Yes, you can. However, keep in mind this a troll strategy and works as long as opponent is not aware and gets caught off-guard. It also depends on your skill level and that off opponent. Suggested is too play in unrated games or when you are in troll mode. If you care about rank and ELO this might not be the best strategy for you.

4) can I use this in team games?
Ans: At your own risk. It has higher chance of failure in team games, and your team mates might flame you for that.

T&C: While author takes complete credit for the PR, ELO, wins, fame, and fun you would get from using this strategy, he/she shall be in no way responsible for your loss in PR, ELO, losses, frustration, flame from team mates, and other things not mentioned in credit.

Re: [Troll Build] Aizamk's Japan: Ronin, and Ninja FF [Improved]

Posted: 14 Feb 2018, 02:49
by tedere12
That's probably one the worst build orders aiz has pulled off so far

Re: [Troll Build] Aizamk's Japan: Ronin, and Ninja FF [Improved]

Posted: 14 Feb 2018, 13:21
by deleted_user0
Toshuga shrine is needed for the export right, not just pop space for ronin.

Re: [Troll Build] Aizamk's Japan: Ronin, and Ninja FF [Improved]

Posted: 14 Feb 2018, 13:41
by princeofcarthage
well you send 300 export, so unless you want to call pike men not really

Re: [Troll Build] Aizamk's Japan: Ronin, and Ninja FF [Improved]

Posted: 14 Feb 2018, 15:41
by bwinner
Sending swisspike was the worst decision I have ever seen in my entire life, gratz @Kickass_OP

Re: [Troll Build] Aizamk's Japan: Ronin, and Ninja FF [Improved]

Posted: 02 Mar 2018, 00:04
by bigsmoke
you can probably maybe sometimes do this another way on a tp map

age 1:
make tp asap
make shrine asap
send advanced wonders
age with togushu with like 1 vill or none doesn't matter

transition:
make cons asap
send GFA
make another shrine
get dutch cons
chop for rax

age 2:
get bank asap u can afford it then switch to spain cons
get a rax soon u can afford to continuously pump out ashi from this point on because ur special cookie now but u don't need to so maybe chill
600c or like nothing else
age asap with the daimyo wonder
send 300e and get the xp shipment

transition:
do stuff ur a good player now but collect gold

age 3:
u should have many shipments now and can ship ronin twice
play with this build because its great and uses advanced wonders


- notes

great thing with this build is that you pretty much only gather food and you can get all the way to fortress and still have enough gold when u put shrines on gold like a good boy to pump out ashi, in age 3 you can put down another rax or stable and still have great eco.

these are just guidelines because im bad its also only doable with a tp if u don't have one then choose an EP map

takes practice for this to work

Re: [Troll Build] Aizamk's Japan: Ronin, and Ninja FF [Improved]

Posted: 02 Mar 2018, 02:27
by Djigit
Aizamk didn't create this BO, although it's most likely from an old Asian player who posted it on the Japanese version of ESOC.
I did it vs. Mitoe in a tournament and got omega beam'ed. Still, I think it works quite well vs. FFs.

Re: [Troll Build] Aizamk's Japan: Ronin, and Ninja FF [Improved]

Posted: 02 Mar 2018, 12:19
by deleted_user0
@Aizamk

:O What is your comment?!

Re: [Troll Build] Aizamk's Japan: Ronin, and Ninja FF [Improved]

Posted: 02 Mar 2018, 13:18
by Aizamk
umeu wrote:@Aizamk

:O What is your comment?!

kind of obvious but the build is diarouga's

Re: [Troll Build] Aizamk's Japan: Ronin, and Ninja FF [Improved]

Posted: 02 Mar 2018, 13:27
by deleted_user0
Aizamk wrote:
umeu wrote:@Aizamk

:O What is your comment?!

kind of obvious but the build is diarouga's


obviously i meant who was the first to steal it from rouga.

Re: [Troll Build] Aizamk's Japan: Ronin, and Ninja FF [Improved]

Posted: 08 Mar 2018, 06:50
by deleted_user
I think it Won't be a troll build anymore if you beat people with it.

Re: [Troll Build] Aizamk's Japan: Ronin, and Ninja FF [Improved]

Posted: 08 Mar 2018, 07:18
by _NT_sven
Help me guys, I want to translate this into Chinese, but first i have to get it clear who is the author.. I mean the real original one.

Re: [Troll Build] Aizamk's Japan: Ronin, and Ninja FF [Improved]

Posted: 08 Mar 2018, 08:25
by Aizamk
_NT_sven wrote:Help me guys, I want to translate this into Chinese, but first i have to get it clear who is the author.. I mean the real original one.

It isn't really a BO someone's written down before, so you can cite Sav0ryBeef as the author. (It's not even the same build I used in the video, just follows the same idea)

The thing about all builds belonging to diarouga is just an inside joke. To be honest though, everyone knows you can't attribute a BO to anyone until someone has written a guide about it or used it in a high profile tournament game, at which point you have 100% certain proof.

In all seriousness, however, BOs should always be treated as guidelines. If someone finds it possible to win with the same BO every game on every map vs every opponent, it usually means they're playing under very controlled settings and need to play on RE quicksearch a bit more to get some practice dealing with more varied situations.

Re: [Troll Build] Aizamk's Japan: Ronin, and Ninja FF [Improved]

Posted: 08 Mar 2018, 08:35
by _NT_sven
I was beaten by hotarun with a build similar to this. Difference is that he ages up to colonial with the exp wonder and send 600 c to ff, with a tp, and then shrine wonder to age3, sending 1000c and then ninja first.

Re: [Troll Build] Aizamk's Japan: Ronin, and Ninja FF [Improved]

Posted: 08 Mar 2018, 08:50
by Googol
I got beaten by this kinda build on qs too, Jap vs Port on ozarks. I did the Mameluke cassa push but those ninjas were gg. Then I got him again and just bow pike rushed him on the same mu works well vs these kinda 1 strat guys.

Re: [Troll Build] Aizamk's Japan: Ronin, and Ninja FF [Improved]

Posted: 08 Mar 2018, 12:09
by Aizamk
_NT_sven wrote:I was beaten by hotarun with a build similar to this. Difference is that he ages up to colonial with the exp wonder and send 600 c to ff, with a tp, and then shrine wonder to age3, sending 1000c and then ninja first.

That's the almost the same build I use in the video, except I forced myself to 10/10 since it was a 200w start, and didn't TP. (He watches my streams sometimes :lol: )

Re: [Troll Build] Aizamk's Japan: Ronin, and Ninja FF [Improved]

Posted: 08 Mar 2018, 14:29
by Kaiserklein
Maybe in fact the way to beat otto dumb ff is ninjas + full yumis? Use ninjas in stealth mode to kill the falcs, and ofc to kill the mams, then yumis do the job

Re: [Troll Build] Aizamk's Japan: Ronin, and Ninja FF [Improved]

Posted: 08 Mar 2018, 14:59
by bwinner
Well if the otto player isn't kickass, he shouldn't sent thé mams After knowing you've got ninjas^^ and if hé has his explorer Alice, you could miss thé falcs aswell so that doesn't sound great^^
Imo just go pure ashi with Jap vs Otto ff.

Re: [Troll Build] Aizamk's Japan: Ronin, and Ninja FF [Improved]

Posted: 08 Mar 2018, 15:04
by Kaiserklein
Yeah but if he doesn't send mams it's not so scary anymore. He can go spahis but yumis can actually kill them, unlike mams. About the explo thing, yeah it could be annoying, you would need to try and snipe it before you get your ninjas