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France kami_ryu
ESOC Community Team
Posts: 1533
ESO: kami_ryu & incognoto
Location: Denver, CO, USA, Earth, Milky Way, Virgo Supercluster

18 Feb 2018, 11:44

Welcome to MU of the week. Every week a thread will be opened where we go over a certain match, set on a certain map. Hopefully the discussion will be in depth and top players will share their insight. Replays are definitely welcome so that people may support what they have to say. To make things even more interesting and engaging, we'll set the match-up on a certain map.

This week's featured match-up is Germans versus French, the map is Cascade Range.

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You can vote on next week's thread here: https://goo.gl/forms/aJaEGXaIIxYi19kO2

You can find a list of ESOC maps here: maps.php

Here the match up table: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/ ... sp=sharing

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Welcome! Credit for this idea goes to @lemmings121 as well as @musketeer925 & @BrookG building upon it. They are the masterminds behind this pretty nice idea!
seed & germination
Germany miggo9919
Skirmisher
Posts: 153
ESO: miggo1999
Location: Hannover

18 Feb 2018, 11:49

Terrible map for both (not many mines for ger, and shit hunts for fre + no tp's), but ger>fre, so it favours ger i'd say.
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France kami_ryu
ESOC Community Team
Posts: 1533
ESO: kami_ryu & incognoto
Location: Denver, CO, USA, Earth, Milky Way, Virgo Supercluster

18 Feb 2018, 11:51

I would say the lack of TPs would penalize Germany much more than it would France. I think France has the upper hand here but I'm not quite so sure myself.
seed & germination
Germany miggo9919
Skirmisher
Posts: 153
ESO: miggo1999
Location: Hannover

18 Feb 2018, 11:52

Well france also wants TP, but you're right it penalizes germany harder, which makes their age 3 significantly less viable, and in age 2 france does quite well
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Brazil lemmings121
Jaeger
Posts: 2019
ESO: lemmings121

18 Feb 2018, 12:10

Imo fre goes samwise build, and germany just dies
Austria Jerimuno
Dragoon
Posts: 212
ESO: Jerimuno

18 Feb 2018, 12:16

gotta pull an iamsoldier on this map, maybe some xbow many dops and a couple uhlan can do fine in age 2 on EP vs france
No Flag umeu
Gendarme
Posts: 8188

18 Feb 2018, 12:43

nat rush with fre, nootka hussar rush ez win. gg no re.
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Brazil lemmings121
Jaeger
Posts: 2019
ESO: lemmings121

18 Feb 2018, 12:45

For real, no idea how germany survives a samwise build here. maybe start 700w 3sw double rax? but bow pike is so trash it appears to be just playing on fre hands to do that.
No Flag Forjustice
Musketeer
Posts: 90
ESO: Forjustice

18 Feb 2018, 12:49

dop!
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France Kaiserklein
Gendarme
EWT - Playoff
Posts: 5422
Location: Paris
GameRanger Id: 5529322

18 Feb 2018, 13:19

Mitoe and I will maybe play this mu on this map and rec it
But it should be france favoured there, because they don't suffer as much as germany from the lack of TP, and because low resources also favour france: better colonial play because they have musketeers, and better mapcontrol because they have cdbs ready to fight on hunts if needed.
My YouTube channel

LoOk_tOm: I have something in particular against Kaisar (GERMANY NOOB mercenary LAMME FOREVER) And the other people (noobs) like suck kaiser ... just this ..

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Italy Garja
ESOC Maps Team
Donator 02
Posts: 5944
ESO: Garja

18 Feb 2018, 13:36

Lack of TP is worse for Germans but traditionally Germans have better early colonial play thanks to free ulhans and in general more impactful shipments. I'm talking about stuff like tower rushing of course, not passive eco play.
French have muskets and cdbs for later but I think as long as Germans control the game it is possible to deny those advantages.
Low hunt is better for Germans, but the map is also low mine. In theory French also have up for xbows if the game goes long enough for coin units not being trainable anymore.
This map has good nats and that's certainly favors French. Besides map control, Nootka provide a tech for vill hp which makes cdbs even stronger and Klamath have a tech for food crates which can help later on. Both civs should consider spice trade card imo, but French have probably easier time fitting it in the deck.
Caravel drop is also valuable because in both lakes generally cover at least one mine.
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France Kaiserklein
Gendarme
EWT - Playoff
Posts: 5422
Location: Paris
GameRanger Id: 5529322

18 Feb 2018, 13:39

Tower rush against france is realistically suicide though, just like any other kind of infantry rush from germany. huss + mm or cdbs can clean everything up so easily. And then when france gets a large enough mass of musks, there is not much germany can do to win in colonial.
My YouTube channel

LoOk_tOm: I have something in particular against Kaisar (GERMANY NOOB mercenary LAMME FOREVER) And the other people (noobs) like suck kaiser ... just this ..

Image
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France kami_ryu
ESOC Community Team
Posts: 1533
ESO: kami_ryu & incognoto
Location: Denver, CO, USA, Earth, Milky Way, Virgo Supercluster

18 Feb 2018, 13:43

replays yes plz
seed & germination
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Italy Garja
ESOC Maps Team
Donator 02
Posts: 5944
ESO: Garja

18 Feb 2018, 13:45

Huss+mm shouldn't clean it up at high level of play because the rushing player is not overcommitting and his micro is going to be up to the task. Then if cav start player doesn't succeed in punishing a proxy start he will be without map control and with more res sunk due to the cav start.
I agree when musk spam becomes a thing it gets really hard for Germans, altho dopp HP boost widens up the window for Germany to keep control. Ulhan HP nerf sucks in this case.

For the record, if French player does normal eco stuff proxy tower+stable with 5 ulhans first card is likely going to rek it. Just to say that are lot of side strats to consider.
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India princeofcarthage
ESOC Media Team
Posts: 1095
ESO: Sav0rybeef
Location: Milky Way!

18 Feb 2018, 14:04

Kaiserklein wrote:Mitoe and I will maybe play this mu on this map and rec it
But it should be france favoured there, because they don't suffer as much as germany from the lack of TP, and because low resources also favour france: better colonial play because they have musketeers, and better mapcontrol because they have cdbs ready to fight on hunts if needed.

If you wouldn't mind, will you send the rec so I can cast it before next weekends Fantastic Friday or whatever it will be called :P
Fantastic Friday Showdown
Fantastic Discord : https://discord.gg/69XVRE4
Twitch : https://www.twitch.tv/trgaoe3

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#SavetheBeef
Great Britain Hazza54321
Jaeger
Posts: 4429

19 Feb 2018, 10:14

Kaiserklein wrote:Mitoe and I will maybe play this mu on this map and rec it
But it should be france favoured there, because they don't suffer as much as germany from the lack of TP, and because low resources also favour france: better colonial play because they have musketeers, and better mapcontrol because they have cdbs ready to fight on hunts if needed.

Dont you think mitoe the number 1 player needs more competition
Diarouga: How exactly am I arrogant
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Canada Mitoe
ESOC Media Team
EWTDonator 03
Posts: 2960
ESO: Mitoe
GameRanger Id: 346407

20 Feb 2018, 09:03

Hazza54321 wrote:
Kaiserklein wrote:Mitoe and I will maybe play this mu on this map and rec it
But it should be france favoured there, because they don't suffer as much as germany from the lack of TP, and because low resources also favour france: better colonial play because they have musketeers, and better mapcontrol because they have cdbs ready to fight on hunts if needed.

Dont you think mitoe the number 1 player needs more competition

I do, yeah, but occasionally I need to just assert my dominance I think so that people don't start getting the wrong idea.

@Kaiserklein play tomorrow? (Today? :hmm: )

But actually, I think it might still be close. I remember having some close games with Irishfaithful on this map and matchup a while back, although he did end up winning in the lategame because French units outscale German units.
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France Kaiserklein
Gendarme
EWT - Playoff
Posts: 5422
Location: Paris
GameRanger Id: 5529322

20 Feb 2018, 10:04

Yeah we can play this later today
My YouTube channel

LoOk_tOm: I have something in particular against Kaisar (GERMANY NOOB mercenary LAMME FOREVER) And the other people (noobs) like suck kaiser ... just this ..

Image
Greece tedere12
Jaeger
Posts: 2893
ESO: Tedere12
Location: Greece
Game: AoE Online
GameRanger Id: 4253320

20 Feb 2018, 11:35

germany is not even that bad on age2 vs france imo. Pretty fair I would say but france should have an advantage later on because of the musketeers. Of course not having tp is worse for germany because they need more xp for their shipments. I'd musk hus as france and maybe age a bit later. As germany, I'd probably try to trap my opponent and get a good surround with dopp uhlans
Image
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Brazil lemmings121
Jaeger
Posts: 2019
ESO: lemmings121

20 Feb 2018, 12:17

I dont see how a dop lands a single atack vs a pr25+ player.. maybe if you make 10 dops you can charge them, lose 8 before the fight, and have 2 engaging the musks
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Italy Garja
ESOC Maps Team
Donator 02
Posts: 5944
ESO: Garja

20 Feb 2018, 14:16

it takes 11 musks to.kne shot a dopp, with 4.5 speed they close up quite well
No Flag umeu
Gendarme
Posts: 8188

20 Feb 2018, 15:05

Garja wrote:Lack of TP is worse for Germans but traditionally Germans have better early colonial play thanks to free ulhans and in general more impactful shipments. I'm talking about stuff like tower rushing of course, not passive eco play.
French have muskets and cdbs for later but I think as long as Germans control the game it is possible to deny those advantages.
Low hunt is better for Germans, but the map is also low mine. In theory French also have up for xbows if the game goes long enough for coin units not being trainable anymore.
This map has good nats and that's certainly favors French. Besides map control, Nootka provide a tech for vill hp which makes cdbs even stronger and Klamath have a tech for food crates which can help later on. Both civs should consider spice trade card imo, but French have probably easier time fitting it in the deck.
Caravel drop is also valuable because in both lakes generally cover at least one mine.


yup. klamath good unit actually. you can get nootka vil hp, pioneers and great coats, and your vils have 100% more hp. pull 12 of them, and it's like having 5 mams in the fights worth of tanking hp. and actually, they have decent dmg output as well. like 4 mams worth. There's no way germany can hold that timing.
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Bavaria j_t_kirk
Lancer
Posts: 555
ESO: j_t_kirk
Location: Kingdom of Bavaria

26 Feb 2018, 07:03

No MU of the week this week? :cry:
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France Rikikipu
ESOC Dev Team
Posts: 1508
ESO: p-of
Location: In your base

26 Feb 2018, 07:34

Can the rec be posted here please ?
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Brazil lemmings121
Jaeger
Posts: 2019
ESO: lemmings121

26 Feb 2018, 11:02

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