Jannisary attack
- TheFrozenStrelet
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Jannisary attack
Why do people use them in melee vs my infantry units?
- gamevideo113
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Re: Jannisary attack
Because their hand attack and their hps are better than those of most infantry, and they force the enemy units in melee mode. They also have hand damage resistance, not ranged damage resistance.
[Some people aspire to be pr30+, some people aspire to have fun, and some people aspire to play 3v3 Deccan.] - vividlyplain - 2019
Who (nationality) rape ?
stupid logic. noob players can say op?
toxic, Insult, Racism ?
stupid logic. noob players can say op?
toxic, Insult, Racism ?
- TheFrozenStrelet
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Re: Jannisary attack
gamevideo113 wrote:Because their hand attack and their hps are better than those of most infantry, and they force the enemy units in melee mode. They also have hand damage resistance, not ranged damage resistance.
Would it be a good idea to get the speed bonus from the advanced arsenal to make their melee better?
- gamevideo113
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Re: Jannisary attack
That upgrade is always a good upgrade, but advanced arsenal is a situational card, so it might not always be the best choice. Also i would advise against an excessive use of the melee mode of janissaries, again, it’s situational.
[Some people aspire to be pr30+, some people aspire to have fun, and some people aspire to play 3v3 Deccan.] - vividlyplain - 2019
Who (nationality) rape ?
stupid logic. noob players can say op?
toxic, Insult, Racism ?
stupid logic. noob players can say op?
toxic, Insult, Racism ?
- TheFrozenStrelet
- Musketeer
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Re: Jannisary attack
I sometimes think advanced arsenal could be a substitute for age 3. The upgrades are so good.
Re: Jannisary attack
Generally on RE you just make one rax Jan’s and attack move people with shipments of other stuff to snare.
You shouldn’t actually put them in hand mode you should instead walk on top of the units while firing
You shouldn’t actually put them in hand mode you should instead walk on top of the units while firing
- [Armag] diarouga
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Re: Jannisary attack
_H2O wrote:Generally on RE you just make one rax Jan’s and attack move people with shipments of other stuff to snare.
You shouldn’t actually put them in hand mode you should instead walk on top of the units while firing
Or you make two raxes
Re: Jannisary attack
I want to add that, although janissary's raw melee attack is quite high, they are rather weak against cavalry due to them having a *2 multiplier while other musk units have *3 or even *3.5.
I recently slaughtered a batch of ~25 age II janissaries with like 18 age III uhlans while having 11 uhlans left. Sure, my units were upgraded, but still you would expect the janissaries to fare better.
I recently slaughtered a batch of ~25 age II janissaries with like 18 age III uhlans while having 11 uhlans left. Sure, my units were upgraded, but still you would expect the janissaries to fare better.
Whatever is written above: this is no financial advice.
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Re: Jannisary attack
duckzilla wrote:I want to add that, although janissary's raw melee attack is quite high, they are rather weak against cavalry due to them having a *2 multiplier while other musk units have *3 or even *3.5.
I recently slaughtered a batch of ~25 age II janissaries with like 18 age III uhlans while having 11 uhlans left. Sure, my units were upgraded, but still you would expect the janissaries to fare better.
Jans suck against cav but uhlans are also just beasts, especially with the veterancy upgrade and cav combat. And then you realize Germany gets 12+ of them free every game.
Unfortunately, EP is unlikely to touch uhlans since the last time they did (10 HP nerf, lmao), German players threw a fit and claimed it was gamebreaking.
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Re: Jannisary attack
@duckzilla I'd bet my left nut that the guy didn't go melee mode. Or then a lot of his jans were low hp or something. Because no way 18 vet uhlans kill 25 jans melee jans.
@Papist Jans are bad at dealing damage to cav, because yes their attack is low. But they're just fine at fighting cav, because then their hp makes up for their attack. So no, jans are not a bad anti cav, just bad damage dealers.
And if you can't understand why 10 hp on uhlans is a big deal, you might want to not comment on balance at all.
@Papist Jans are bad at dealing damage to cav, because yes their attack is low. But they're just fine at fighting cav, because then their hp makes up for their attack. So no, jans are not a bad anti cav, just bad damage dealers.
And if you can't understand why 10 hp on uhlans is a big deal, you might want to not comment on balance at all.
LoOk_tOm wrote:I have something in particular against Kaisar (GERMANY NOOB mercenary LAMME FOREVER) And the other people (noobs) like suck kaiser ... just this ..
Re: Jannisary attack
Papist wrote:duckzilla wrote:I want to add that, although janissary's raw melee attack is quite high, they are rather weak against cavalry due to them having a *2 multiplier while other musk units have *3 or even *3.5.
I recently slaughtered a batch of ~25 age II janissaries with like 18 age III uhlans while having 11 uhlans left. Sure, my units were upgraded, but still you would expect the janissaries to fare better.
Jans suck against cav but uhlans are also just beasts, especially with the veterancy upgrade and cav combat. And then you realize Germany gets 12+ of them free every game.
Unfortunately, EP is unlikely to touch uhlans since the last time they did (10 HP nerf, lmao), German players threw a fit and claimed it was gamebreaking.
It makes a huge difference. Maybe not at your Elo tho.
Jans have melee resistance while Uhlans have range resistance . Jans should be fine as long as they don't fight in ranged mode vs uhlans
give that guy a manual
Re: Jannisary attack
Kaiserklein wrote:@duckzilla I'd bet my left nut that the guy didn't go melee mode. Or then a lot of his jans were low hp or something. Because no way 18 vet uhlans kill 25 jans melee jans.
Well, there's always the possibility that the guy completely screwed his micro. I did not really pay attention in the moment, so maybe he even focus fired on single uhlans.. But it was definitely fresh batches with full hp. I was quite astonished when I saw my Uhlans being alive.
Whatever is written above: this is no financial advice.
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Re: Jannisary attack
Yeah he must have fucked up, otherwise it's impossible
LoOk_tOm wrote:I have something in particular against Kaisar (GERMANY NOOB mercenary LAMME FOREVER) And the other people (noobs) like suck kaiser ... just this ..
Re: Jannisary attack
190HP=4 hits from TC, 180HP=3 hits
190HP=5 hits from dragoon, 180HP=4 hits
RE uhlan are strong because 30% range resist do make a difference. You may think 190 HP is quite low, but compare this:
uhlan (190HP) axe rider(250HP) hussar(320HP)
TC 4 4 5
dragoon 5 5 6
Uhlan has about the same HP as axe riders when facing ranged fires, and they're only a bit weaker than hussar. 30% range resist is just so good.
Only in melee battles do uhlan becomes quite vulnerable, but they have insane melee attack and they love melee fights too
This can also explain why naginata riders/kanya horsemen are so useful in games, while they have poor HP/attack: they can tank a lot more damage than hussars.
190HP=5 hits from dragoon, 180HP=4 hits
RE uhlan are strong because 30% range resist do make a difference. You may think 190 HP is quite low, but compare this:
uhlan (190HP) axe rider(250HP) hussar(320HP)
TC 4 4 5
dragoon 5 5 6
Uhlan has about the same HP as axe riders when facing ranged fires, and they're only a bit weaker than hussar. 30% range resist is just so good.
Only in melee battles do uhlan becomes quite vulnerable, but they have insane melee attack and they love melee fights too
This can also explain why naginata riders/kanya horsemen are so useful in games, while they have poor HP/attack: they can tank a lot more damage than hussars.
Re: Jannisary attack
Kaiserklein wrote:@duckzilla I'd bet my left nut that the guy didn't go melee mode. Or then a lot of his jans were low hp or something. Because no way 18 vet uhlans kill 25 jans melee jans.
@Papist Jans are bad at dealing damage to cav, because yes their attack is low. But they're just fine at fighting cav, because then their hp makes up for their attack. So no, jans are not a bad anti cav, just bad damage dealers.
And if you can't understand why 10 hp on uhlans is a big deal, you might want to not comment on balance at all.
Age 3 uhlan kills age 2 jan with 7 hits.
Age 2 jan (melee) kills age 3 uhlan with 8 hits.
So age 3 uhlan can actually beat age 2 jan in a 1v1 fight
If it's 18 uhlan vs 25 jan... Jan should win this but there'll be only a few left, and if otto do a little mistake in micro he just lose this.
Re: Jannisary attack
Also it’s not just a straight up fight cause Jana get in 2 volleys at least before uhlan do any damage
Re: Jannisary attack
if the super busted overpowered uhlans, which should be nerfed but aren't cuz of lame german lamers win vs your jans, you can still oos so shouldn't be a problem
give that guy a manual
- gamevideo113
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Re: Jannisary attack
Janissaroos
[Some people aspire to be pr30+, some people aspire to have fun, and some people aspire to play 3v3 Deccan.] - vividlyplain - 2019
Who (nationality) rape ?
stupid logic. noob players can say op?
toxic, Insult, Racism ?
stupid logic. noob players can say op?
toxic, Insult, Racism ?
Re: Jannisary attack
Because people are bad.
Re: Jannisary attack
stronk wrote:Papist wrote:duckzilla wrote:I want to add that, although janissary's raw melee attack is quite high, they are rather weak against cavalry due to them having a *2 multiplier while other musk units have *3 or even *3.5.
I recently slaughtered a batch of ~25 age II janissaries with like 18 age III uhlans while having 11 uhlans left. Sure, my units were upgraded, but still you would expect the janissaries to fare better.
Jans suck against cav but uhlans are also just beasts, especially with the veterancy upgrade and cav combat. And then you realize Germany gets 12+ of them free every game.
Unfortunately, EP is unlikely to touch uhlans since the last time they did (10 HP nerf, lmao), German players threw a fit and claimed it was gamebreaking.
It makes a huge difference. Maybe not at your Elo tho.
Jans have melee resistance while Uhlans have range resistance . Jans should be fine as long as they don't fight in ranged mode vs uhlans
It's a 5% cut in age 2. In age 3, 4%. After cav combat and cav hp, even less. In other words, uhlans are 95% as strong as they always were. How many scenarios can you think of where this will actually swing a fight/game one way or another? Of course it has an impact on Germany, which was stupidly strong before this change was implemented (which is why it was implemented in the first place), but how often is this "huge difference" actually seen in practice?
stronk wrote:if the super busted overpowered uhlans, which should be nerfed but aren't cuz of lame german lamers win vs your jans, you can still oos so shouldn't be a problem
The first post wasn't enough, so you had to follow up 4 hours later with more insults?
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Re: Jannisary attack
@Papist it has a massive impact in age 2 cav fights because now uhlans die to 6 hussar swings instead of 7
- Kazamkikaz
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Re: Jannisary attack
TheFrozenStrelet wrote:Why do people use them in melee vs my infantry units?
cause they are noobs using all janissary they hv to melee and hope u dont do hit and run micro or they think melee vs Light infantry is good cause can catch them LOL.
U do less damage in melee mod unless u hv alot groups and every side to snare the infantry but need some jan in hand mode
Re: Jannisary attack
You don't get it @Papist . Look at what Kaiser, Cometk and fei wrote. It is not about how many hp a unit has, but about how many shots/attacks it takes to kill them. In this case the 10 hp make the difference between 6 or 7 hits in fight with huss . They also take one extra shot more from a tc. The difference from 3 to 4 shots per uhlan is a lot.
give that guy a manual
Re: Jannisary attack
Papist wrote:stronk wrote:Show hidden quotes
It makes a huge difference. Maybe not at your Elo tho.
Jans have melee resistance while Uhlans have range resistance . Jans should be fine as long as they don't fight in ranged mode vs uhlans
It's a 5% cut in age 2. In age 3, 4%. After cav combat and cav hp, even less. In other words, uhlans are 95% as strong as they always were. How many scenarios can you think of where this will actually swing a fight/game one way or another? Of course it has an impact on Germany, which was stupidly strong before this change was implemented (which is why it was implemented in the first place), but how often is this "huge difference" actually seen in practice?stronk wrote:if the super busted overpowered uhlans, which should be nerfed but aren't cuz of lame german lamers win vs your jans, you can still oos so shouldn't be a problem
The first post wasn't enough, so you had to follow up 4 hours later with more insults?
honestly it has a huge impact. Cav cards you first have to send and when you send them you cannot send any unit shipments which germans heavily depend on. As well a german player is almost always forced to play with a good mass of uhlans because the lack of good anti cav.
Re: Jannisary attack
On the topic of 'nerfing' uhlans: you could also 'normalize' their stats on age III level instead of age II level (as is the case for strelets for example). With this, you could nerf their age II performance without altering their mid- and late-game performance.
Example:
Given the following age III stats: HP 225, DMG 44, (down from current HP 228, DMG 44.4)
age II uhlans (-20%) would have: HP 180, DMG 35.2 (down from HP 190, DMG 37)
while age V uhlans (+90%) would have: HP 427.5, DMG 83.6 (up from HP 399, DMG 77.7)
Just an example of course, but it might be a compromise between nerfing their base stats (and, hence, their long-term perfomance) and keeping them as it is. They would perform worse in age II and III, where the free shipment uhlans have the highest impact.
edit: of course, cav cards would improve their stats on the basis of the age III values. With both age II upgrade cards, they would have HP 213.75 DMG 41.8 (down from HP 218.5, DMG 42.55 in the current setup). Age III uhlans with all three upgrade cards would have HP 292,5, DMG 57.2 (down from HP 294.5, DMG 57.35). Hence, for fully upped age III uhlans, the change would be very small, which could be considered as fair given the amount of cards you put into them.
For any later ages, the change would start improving uhlans stats.
Example:
Given the following age III stats: HP 225, DMG 44, (down from current HP 228, DMG 44.4)
age II uhlans (-20%) would have: HP 180, DMG 35.2 (down from HP 190, DMG 37)
while age V uhlans (+90%) would have: HP 427.5, DMG 83.6 (up from HP 399, DMG 77.7)
Just an example of course, but it might be a compromise between nerfing their base stats (and, hence, their long-term perfomance) and keeping them as it is. They would perform worse in age II and III, where the free shipment uhlans have the highest impact.
edit: of course, cav cards would improve their stats on the basis of the age III values. With both age II upgrade cards, they would have HP 213.75 DMG 41.8 (down from HP 218.5, DMG 42.55 in the current setup). Age III uhlans with all three upgrade cards would have HP 292,5, DMG 57.2 (down from HP 294.5, DMG 57.35). Hence, for fully upped age III uhlans, the change would be very small, which could be considered as fair given the amount of cards you put into them.
For any later ages, the change would start improving uhlans stats.
Whatever is written above: this is no financial advice.
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