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United States of America TheFrozenStrelet
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08 Jun 2018, 21:30

Why do people use them in melee vs my infantry units?
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Italy gamevideo113
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08 Jun 2018, 21:33

Because their hand attack and their hps are better than those of most infantry, and they force the enemy units in melee mode. They also have hand damage resistance, not ranged damage resistance.
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United States of America TheFrozenStrelet
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08 Jun 2018, 22:10

gamevideo113 wrote:Because their hand attack and their hps are better than those of most infantry, and they force the enemy units in melee mode. They also have hand damage resistance, not ranged damage resistance.

Would it be a good idea to get the speed bonus from the advanced arsenal to make their melee better?
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Italy gamevideo113
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08 Jun 2018, 22:30

That upgrade is always a good upgrade, but advanced arsenal is a situational card, so it might not always be the best choice. Also i would advise against an excessive use of the melee mode of janissaries, again, it’s situational.
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United States of America TheFrozenStrelet
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08 Jun 2018, 22:47

I sometimes think advanced arsenal could be a substitute for age 3. The upgrades are so good.
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United States of America _H2O
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09 Jun 2018, 03:27

Generally on RE you just make one rax Jan’s and attack move people with shipments of other stuff to snare.

You shouldn’t actually put them in hand mode you should instead walk on top of the units while firing
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France [Armag] diarouga
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09 Jun 2018, 05:38

_H2O wrote:Generally on RE you just make one rax Jan’s and attack move people with shipments of other stuff to snare.

You shouldn’t actually put them in hand mode you should instead walk on top of the units while firing

Or you make two raxes :lol:
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Germany duckzilla
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09 Jun 2018, 07:48

I want to add that, although janissary's raw melee attack is quite high, they are rather weak against cavalry due to them having a *2 multiplier while other musk units have *3 or even *3.5.

I recently slaughtered a batch of ~25 age II janissaries with like 18 age III uhlans while having 11 uhlans left. Sure, my units were upgraded, but still you would expect the janissaries to fare better.
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United States of America Papist
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09 Jun 2018, 15:56

duckzilla wrote:I want to add that, although janissary's raw melee attack is quite high, they are rather weak against cavalry due to them having a *2 multiplier while other musk units have *3 or even *3.5.

I recently slaughtered a batch of ~25 age II janissaries with like 18 age III uhlans while having 11 uhlans left. Sure, my units were upgraded, but still you would expect the janissaries to fare better.


Jans suck against cav but uhlans are also just beasts, especially with the veterancy upgrade and cav combat. And then you realize Germany gets 12+ of them free every game.

Unfortunately, EP is unlikely to touch uhlans since the last time they did (10 HP nerf, lmao), German players threw a fit and claimed it was gamebreaking.
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France Kaiserklein
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09 Jun 2018, 16:28

@duckzilla I'd bet my left nut that the guy didn't go melee mode. Or then a lot of his jans were low hp or something. Because no way 18 vet uhlans kill 25 jans melee jans.

@Papist Jans are bad at dealing damage to cav, because yes their attack is low. But they're just fine at fighting cav, because then their hp makes up for their attack. So no, jans are not a bad anti cav, just bad damage dealers.
And if you can't understand why 10 hp on uhlans is a big deal, you might want to not comment on balance at all.
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well I have better mechanics than you
tbh tower rush is a good strat
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No Flag stronk
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09 Jun 2018, 16:52

Papist wrote:
duckzilla wrote:I want to add that, although janissary's raw melee attack is quite high, they are rather weak against cavalry due to them having a *2 multiplier while other musk units have *3 or even *3.5.

I recently slaughtered a batch of ~25 age II janissaries with like 18 age III uhlans while having 11 uhlans left. Sure, my units were upgraded, but still you would expect the janissaries to fare better.


Jans suck against cav but uhlans are also just beasts, especially with the veterancy upgrade and cav combat. And then you realize Germany gets 12+ of them free every game.

Unfortunately, EP is unlikely to touch uhlans since the last time they did (10 HP nerf, lmao), German players threw a fit and claimed it was gamebreaking.

It makes a huge difference. Maybe not at your Elo tho.
Jans have melee resistance while Uhlans have range resistance . Jans should be fine as long as they don't fight in ranged mode vs uhlans
give that guy a manual
Germany duckzilla
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09 Jun 2018, 17:13

Kaiserklein wrote:@duckzilla I'd bet my left nut that the guy didn't go melee mode. Or then a lot of his jans were low hp or something. Because no way 18 vet uhlans kill 25 jans melee jans.

Well, there's always the possibility that the guy completely screwed his micro. I did not really pay attention in the moment, so maybe he even focus fired on single uhlans.. But it was definitely fresh batches with full hp. I was quite astonished when I saw my Uhlans being alive.
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France Kaiserklein
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09 Jun 2018, 17:16

Yeah he must have fucked up, otherwise it's impossible
Micro tricks

LoOk_tOm: I have something in particular against Kaisar (GERMANY NOOB mercenary LAMME FOREVER) And the other people (noobs) like suck kaiser ... just this ..

iamturk:
well I have better mechanics than you
tbh tower rush is a good strat
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China fei123456
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09 Jun 2018, 18:32

190HP=4 hits from TC, 180HP=3 hits
190HP=5 hits from dragoon, 180HP=4 hits

RE uhlan are strong because 30% range resist do make a difference. You may think 190 HP is quite low, but compare this:
uhlan (190HP) axe rider(250HP) hussar(320HP)
TC 4 4 5
dragoon 5 5 6

Uhlan has about the same HP as axe riders when facing ranged fires, and they're only a bit weaker than hussar. 30% range resist is just so good.
Only in melee battles do uhlan becomes quite vulnerable, but they have insane melee attack and they love melee fights too :mad:

This can also explain why naginata riders/kanya horsemen are so useful in games, while they have poor HP/attack: they can tank a lot more damage than hussars.
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China fei123456
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09 Jun 2018, 18:40

Kaiserklein wrote:@duckzilla I'd bet my left nut that the guy didn't go melee mode. Or then a lot of his jans were low hp or something. Because no way 18 vet uhlans kill 25 jans melee jans.

@Papist Jans are bad at dealing damage to cav, because yes their attack is low. But they're just fine at fighting cav, because then their hp makes up for their attack. So no, jans are not a bad anti cav, just bad damage dealers.
And if you can't understand why 10 hp on uhlans is a big deal, you might want to not comment on balance at all.

Age 3 uhlan kills age 2 jan with 7 hits.
Age 2 jan (melee) kills age 3 uhlan with 8 hits.
So age 3 uhlan can actually beat age 2 jan in a 1v1 fight :hmm:

If it's 18 uhlan vs 25 jan... Jan should win this but there'll be only a few left, and if otto do a little mistake in micro he just lose this.
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Tuvalu gibson
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09 Jun 2018, 18:47

Also it’s not just a straight up fight cause Jana get in 2 volleys at least before uhlan do any damage
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No Flag stronk
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09 Jun 2018, 21:07

if the super busted overpowered uhlans, which should be nerfed but aren't cuz of lame german lamers win vs your jans, you can still oos so shouldn't be a problem
give that guy a manual
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Italy gamevideo113
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09 Jun 2018, 21:10

Janissaroos
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New Zealand zoom
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09 Jun 2018, 21:10

Because people are bad.
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United States of America Papist
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09 Jun 2018, 22:39

stronk wrote:
Papist wrote:
duckzilla wrote:I want to add that, although janissary's raw melee attack is quite high, they are rather weak against cavalry due to them having a *2 multiplier while other musk units have *3 or even *3.5.

I recently slaughtered a batch of ~25 age II janissaries with like 18 age III uhlans while having 11 uhlans left. Sure, my units were upgraded, but still you would expect the janissaries to fare better.


Jans suck against cav but uhlans are also just beasts, especially with the veterancy upgrade and cav combat. And then you realize Germany gets 12+ of them free every game.

Unfortunately, EP is unlikely to touch uhlans since the last time they did (10 HP nerf, lmao), German players threw a fit and claimed it was gamebreaking.

It makes a huge difference. Maybe not at your Elo tho.
Jans have melee resistance while Uhlans have range resistance . Jans should be fine as long as they don't fight in ranged mode vs uhlans


It's a 5% cut in age 2. In age 3, 4%. After cav combat and cav hp, even less. In other words, uhlans are 95% as strong as they always were. How many scenarios can you think of where this will actually swing a fight/game one way or another? Of course it has an impact on Germany, which was stupidly strong before this change was implemented (which is why it was implemented in the first place), but how often is this "huge difference" actually seen in practice?

stronk wrote:if the super busted overpowered uhlans, which should be nerfed but aren't cuz of lame german lamers win vs your jans, you can still oos so shouldn't be a problem


The first post wasn't enough, so you had to follow up 4 hours later with more insults?
My first post, circa March 2015 :blush:
Papist wrote:@frycookofdoom. WTF are you talking about? There is no need for AoE to become a StarCraft rip-off. I sincerly doubt a historical game would attract the science fiction crowd anyways.
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United States of America Cometk
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10 Jun 2018, 00:09

@Papist it has a massive impact in age 2 cav fights because now uhlans die to 6 hussar swings instead of 7
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Portugal Kazamkikaz
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10 Jun 2018, 02:08

TheFrozenStrelet wrote:Why do people use them in melee vs my infantry units?

cause they are noobs using all janissary they hv to melee and hope u dont do hit and run micro or they think melee vs Light infantry is good cause can catch them LOL.
U do less damage in melee mod unless u hv alot groups and every side to snare the infantry but need some jan in hand mode
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No Flag stronk
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10 Jun 2018, 07:27

You don't get it @Papist . Look at what Kaiser, Cometk and fei wrote. It is not about how many hp a unit has, but about how many shots/attacks it takes to kill them. In this case the 10 hp make the difference between 6 or 7 hits in fight with huss . They also take one extra shot more from a tc. The difference from 3 to 4 shots per uhlan is a lot.
give that guy a manual
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Switzerland glorious_
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10 Jun 2018, 07:31

Papist wrote:
stronk wrote:
Show hidden quotes

It makes a huge difference. Maybe not at your Elo tho.
Jans have melee resistance while Uhlans have range resistance . Jans should be fine as long as they don't fight in ranged mode vs uhlans


It's a 5% cut in age 2. In age 3, 4%. After cav combat and cav hp, even less. In other words, uhlans are 95% as strong as they always were. How many scenarios can you think of where this will actually swing a fight/game one way or another? Of course it has an impact on Germany, which was stupidly strong before this change was implemented (which is why it was implemented in the first place), but how often is this "huge difference" actually seen in practice?

stronk wrote:if the super busted overpowered uhlans, which should be nerfed but aren't cuz of lame german lamers win vs your jans, you can still oos so shouldn't be a problem


The first post wasn't enough, so you had to follow up 4 hours later with more insults?


honestly it has a huge impact. Cav cards you first have to send and when you send them you cannot send any unit shipments which germans heavily depend on. As well a german player is almost always forced to play with a good mass of uhlans because the lack of good anti cav.
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10 Jun 2018, 10:04

On the topic of 'nerfing' uhlans: you could also 'normalize' their stats on age III level instead of age II level (as is the case for strelets for example). With this, you could nerf their age II performance without altering their mid- and late-game performance.

Example:
Given the following age III stats: HP 225, DMG 44, (down from current HP 228, DMG 44.4)
age II uhlans (-20%) would have: HP 180, DMG 35.2 (down from HP 190, DMG 37)
while age V uhlans (+90%) would have: HP 427.5, DMG 83.6 (up from HP 399, DMG 77.7)

Just an example of course, but it might be a compromise between nerfing their base stats (and, hence, their long-term perfomance) and keeping them as it is. They would perform worse in age II and III, where the free shipment uhlans have the highest impact.


edit: of course, cav cards would improve their stats on the basis of the age III values. With both age II upgrade cards, they would have HP 213.75 DMG 41.8 (down from HP 218.5, DMG 42.55 in the current setup). Age III uhlans with all three upgrade cards would have HP 292,5, DMG 57.2 (down from HP 294.5, DMG 57.35). Hence, for fully upped age III uhlans, the change would be very small, which could be considered as fair given the amount of cards you put into them.
For any later ages, the change would start improving uhlans stats.
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